Are you happy with Obama as President?

[RobertNashville]

Honestly, Robert, I could care less about the "what ifs" concerning possible supreme court appointees....Just judging the two on gun history, Romney has more anti-gun stuffs on his record then O does. So what makes you think that Romney would appoint a pro-gun judge(s)?

Where is all this supposed anti-gun stuff from Romney aside from the AWB which seems to be the only thing you care about? I ask because the NRA doesn't seem to agree with you and all the other sources I've checked seem to have a habit of leaving out a lot of the pro-2A things Romney did as governor. But, if you think Romney signing an assault weapon ban in Massachusetts is the only thing to be concerned with then I guess that's what you'll think. Yes, Romney signed the ban in MA - the law included other elements welcomed by gun-rights supporters that, for some reason, you haven't mentioned and you haven't mentioned it while you seem willing to give Obama a pass because a couple of good things have happened on his watch???

Here is a bit of Obama's record...

• "Do you support state legislation to … ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes." (Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996
  

• "I’m consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry." (Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004)
  

• "I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manufacturers lobby." Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope (2006).
  

• Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sports shooting. (United States Senate, vote no. 217, S. 397, July 29, 2005)
  

• Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense. (Illinois Senate, SB 2165, vote 20, March 25, 2004)
  

• In his only two votes on confirming Supreme Court nominees, Obama voted against two of the five justices (Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito) who later affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller.
  

Obama has long and consistent record of being vehemently anti-gun even to the point of believing that Illinois residents should not have the right to defend themselves with a gun in their own home. Further, Obama is CURRENTLY pushing for a new nation-wide assault weapons ban and Romney says he is opposed t any such ban.

If an AWB is your "thing" I still fail to see how you think Obama should stay in office.

Edited July 28, 2012 by RobertNashville

[strickj]

6.8, Let me say I do not want 4 more years of O.

But I'm confident that O and the libs will not push for gun control. Least not anything passable.

I am not confident that Romney wouldn't, though. He has already signed an AWB and I feel he will do it again if made POTUS. He would have the backing of the democrats, the RHINOs and some of the other republicans (let's face it, the parties like to stick together regardless of the issue).

Edited July 28, 2012 by strickj

[strickj]

Where is all this supposed anti-gun stuff from Romney aside from the AWB

http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Mitt_Romney_Gun_Control.htm

From that link:

In 1994 Romney had supported firearms-control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association: the so-called Brady Bill, which restricted the sale of handguns, and the assault weapons ban. During the 1994 senatorial campaign he had taunted: "That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA." He reinforced his support for these measures when he ran for governor in 2002, when he promised not to chip away at the Commonwealth's tough gun laws. Now as a presidential candidate, Romney presented himself disingenuously as a lifetime member of the NRA and a hunter of "varmints," which prompted the acerbic Boston Globe columnist Joan Vennochi to write: "Leave it to Mitt Romney to shoot himself in the foot with a gun he doesn't own."

which seems to be the only thing you care about?

Even if that was the only thing, wouldn't THAT be enough? We're talking about an AWB, for goodness sake!

Yes, Romney signed the ban in MA - the law included other elements welcomed by gun-rights supporters that, for some reason, you haven't mentioned and you haven't mentioned

Massachusetts gun right supporters? Like how they supported high cap mags?

Oxymoron?

ama has long and consistent record of being vehemently anti-gun even to the point of believing that Illinois residents should not have the right to defend themselves with a gun in their own home.

Yeah, well... so does Romney. I'm sorry if anyone can believe what is ONLY being said currently.

Further, Obama is CURRENTLY pushing for a new nation-wide assault weapons ban and Romney says he is opposed t any such ban.

Funny. Who signed an AWB?

Like I said earlier, I'm confident that O and the libs know better then to push for major gun control.

[RobertNashville]

Like I said earlier, I'm confident that O and the libs know better then to push for major gun control.

Facts often don't care what someone's confidence is.

If you really think Obama won't push an AWB after re-election (when he already IS pushing one) then good luck with that.

[strickj]

Facts often don't care what someone's confidence is.

If you really think Obama won't push an AWB after re-election (when he already IS pushing one) then good luck with that.

Facts? The fact that some hate O so much that they're willing to replace him with someone just like him?

I'm confident that O and the libs will not push for gun control. If they do, I'm confident the republicans will not let it happen.

I'm confident Romney will repeat what he has already done. I'm confident when he does, he will have the support of the liberals, the RHINOS and some republicans (that whole "let's stick together" thing both parties do).

If you really feel that Romney is anything but anti-gun, then simply research his history. I provided a somewhat unbiased link above but feel free to look for yourself.

What he is saying now is simple pandering.

Edited July 28, 2012 by strickj

[Oh Shoot]

I'm confident that O and the libs will not push for gun control.

Screw gun control; I'd rather have to worry about that with Mitt (though not really) than face the distinct possibility of having to actually use the guns under another term of BHO (really).

- OS

Edited July 28, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

6.8, Let me say I do not want 4 more years of O.

But I'm confident that O and the libs will not push for gun control. Least not anything passable.

I am not confident that Romney wouldn't, though. He has already signed an AWB and I feel he will do it again if made POTUS. He would have the backing of the democrats, the RHINOs and some of the other republicans (let's face it, the parties like to stick together regardless of the issue).

And I believe you, but I think you're allowing Obama too much wiggle room, only because he hasn't

signed something that is almost certainly guaranteed he would sign. Health care theft of the economy was

the major thing on his agenda. He can move on to guns and private property in a second term. He and his minions

were tossing out trial balloons up until now to see what they could get away with, and that included gun control

or an outright confiscation.

I know you're liberal on social agendas, and I understand, probably even agree on some of them, but when it comes

to guns, property and absolute power, he's got nothing in the way(in his own mind) in a second term and will deliver.

As much as I hate any banning on any weapon, I can live with Romney's explanation and/or flip flop over that.

Congress will have to give him a bill from both bodies for him to do what Obama intends to do with EO's

[RobertNashville]

Facts?

Yeah...facts...you know, like what Obama has actually said and what he as actually voted on and what he actually pushing now...you know...the ones you keep conveniently ignoring.

[strickj]

Yeah...facts...you know, like what Obama has actually said and what he as actually voted on and what he actually pushing now...you know...the ones you keep conveniently ignoring.

Not ignoring it at all. I know how Obama feels about guns and what his history is. I'm simply pointing out that Romney is just as bad, if not worst.

Also explaining why I'm less fearful of Obama making a gun grab then I am of a republican making a gun grab.

[daddyo]

If you really love America

Oh, pullleezzzzz.....

[RobertNashville]

Not ignoring it at all. I know how Obama feels about guns and what his history is. I'm simply pointing out that Romney is just as bad, if not worst.

Also explaining why I'm less fearful of Obama making a gun grab then I am of a republican making a gun grab.

Well...you seem to have a bit of a selective memory of Romney's record; but if one is going to assert that Romney is/would somehow be worse for gun owners than Obama I can understand why

[Links2k]

Oh, pullleezzzzz.....

You didn't fall for the guilt trip?

[strickj]

Well...you seem to have a bit of a selective memory of Romney's record; but if one is going to assert that Romney is/would somehow be worse for gun owners than Obama I can understand why

Selective? You seem to be ignoring Romney's stance on guns altogether!

From the Fox News link CCI provided earlier:

ROMNEY

1994: In his unsuccessful challenge to liberal Democratic Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Romney sounds moderate on guns, supporting an assault weapons ban and insisting, "I don't line up with the NRA."

2002: Running for governor of Massachusetts, Romney says he supports and will protect the state's "tough gun laws." The NRA gives his Democratic opponent a higher rating on gun-rights issues and makes no endorsement in the race.

2003: As governor, Romney upsets gun owners by signing a law that quadruples the state's gun-licensing fee — from $25 to $100 — as part of a widespread effort to eliminate the budget deficit.

2004: Romney signs a Massachusetts ban on assault weapons. He mollifies many gun rights advocates by coupling it with looser rules on gun licenses and an extension of the duration of licenses, reducing the effect of the earlier fee increase.

2005: Declares May 7 as "Right to Bear Arms Day" in Massachusetts.

2006: As he prepares for his first presidential run, Romney becomes a lifetime NRA member.

2007: While campaigning, Romney declares he sometimes hunts "small varmints" — a comment ridiculed by some as an awkward attempt to pander to pro-gun voters.

2008: In a Republican primary debate, Romney says he would have signed the federal assault weapons ban if it came to his desk as president, but he opposes any new gun legislation.

2011: Making his second presidential bid, Romney's campaigns on a promise to protect and promote the Second Amendment.

2012: Romney tells gun owners that Obama wants to erode their rights. "We need a president who will enforce current laws, not create new ones that only serve to burden lawful gun owners," Romney told the National Rifle Association's annual convention. "President Obama has not. I will."

July 20: Like Obama, Romney avoids talking politics on the day of the Aurora shooting. He says Americans are coming together in their sorrow: "There is something we can do. We can offer comfort to someone near us who is suffering or heavy laden, and we can mourn with those who mourn in Colorado."

OBAMA

1997-2004: As an Illinois state senator, Obama supports banning all forms of semiautomatic weapons and tighter state restrictions generally on firearms, including a failed effort to limit handgun purchases to one per month.

2005: In the U.S. Senate, Obama votes against protecting firearms makers and dealers from lawsuits over misuse of their products by others. The bill is signed into law by President George W. Bush.

2008: During his first presidential campaign, Obama supports a return to the federal ban on assault weapons, which began during the Clinton administration and expired under Bush. He also endorses requiring background checks for buyers at gun shows. The National Rifle Association attacks him as an anti-gun zealot — a stand the group continues to take today.

April 2008: Obama is criticized for elitism after sounding dismissive of gun owners in a talk to campaign donors. He said voters in struggling small towns in Middle America "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them" to explain their frustrations.

September 2008: Obama seeks to reassure gun owners: "I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. ... There are some common-sense gun safety laws that I believe in. But I am not going to take your guns away." Nonetheless, gun sales go up when Obama wins, apparently because of fear that new restrictions are imminent under his administration.

2009: As president, Obama signs a law allowing people to carry concealed weapons in the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone and other national parks and wildlife refuges and another that lets people carry guns in their checked bags on Amtrak trains.

2010: The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence gives Obama a grade of "F'' for failing to push even the gun restrictions he supported while campaigning.

2011: Obama says the shooting that severely wounded then-Rep. Gabriel Giffords, D-Ariz., and killed six people should lead to "a new discussion of how we can keep America safe for all our people." He calls for "sound and effective steps" to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, including strengthening background checks on gun buyers. But he's short on specifics, and the Obama administration hasn't proposed any new gun initiatives since then.

March 2012: Obama calls the fatal shooting of black teenager Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch volunteer in Florida "a tragedy," saying Americans should do some soul-searching and "examine the laws" to figure out why it happened. He hasn't called for any legal changes in response to the case, which mostly brought attention to some states' "stand your ground" laws making it easier for a shooter to claim self-defense. Indeed, most gun regulations are imposed by states. The primary federal law is the Brady law requiring background checks on firearms purchasers.

July 20: Obama says he's heartbroken by the Aurora, Colo., movie theater massacre and calls for Americans to unite in prayer for the victims: "If there's anything to take away from this tragedy it's the reminder that life is very fragile, our time here is limited and it is precious."

Asked whether the mass shooting should prompt a new review of gun laws, White House spokesman Jay Carney declines to comment beyond reiterating Obama's existing stance in support of "common-sense measures that protect Second Amendment rights of Americans, while ensuring that those who should not have guns under existing law do not get them."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz21xyNL03c

Romney only changed his so called pro-gun stance for his POTUS run.

Why do you think he is pro-gun? The proof is in the pudding.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I haven't been happy with any president including Obama, so the odds favor not being happy with Romney either, should he win. Not decided who I'll vote for, except not for Obama. Just answering the thread question.

Possibly I'll be happy with Romney. Reserved judgment. If he wins I can report back in a year or three.

Future extrapolation is difficult/impossible. Made even more difficult lacking good information. Am not claiming that this is a failing or conspiracy of the press or "shady groups". Some info we will have wished we had known in the future, is not currently available. Other info we will have wished we had paid attention to, is right under our noses but we don't know where to look because there is so much information. Needle in a haystack.

http://en.wikipedia....merican_Century

For instance, am not implying anything except exactly what I say-- In Y2K, it would have been possible to find out that one of the many obscure washington "think tanks" Project for the New American Century, organized by writers with membership of has-been politicians, had in 1998 begun lobbying Clinton to take down Saddam.

It might have been useful to know in Y2K that in Sep 2000 PNAC issued a paper, "Rebuilding America's Defenses" including the charming line, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor". Maybe at that time it would still have been meaningless that members included coming Bush admin members Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Zalmah Kalilzad, and more.

Rahm Emanuel said, "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

PNAC, 9 days after 9/11, said, "even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack, any strategy aiming at the eradication of terrorism and its sponsors must include a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. Failure to undertake such an effort will constitute an early and perhaps decisive surrender in the war on international terrorism."

Not saying anything in particular except it might have been useful to pay more attention to some of that stuff. G.W. was campaigning about closing bases and staying out of UN and NATO brush wars. G.W. was saying the same things that get Ron Paul in trouble. But many men destined for his admin had other ideas. Did G.W. know their plans but he lied to us on the campaign trail? Or was G.W. being truthful but he just accidentally picked the wrong hired help?

Thats all I'm saying. Some stuff was publicized about Obama in 2008. More Obama oddities later on. Some Obama oddities in principle we could have known about. It would have been useful to know.

Would be nice to know what we should be paying attention to right now. A lot of useful info is in plain view if we only knew what to look for. A few GOOD reporters with no axe to grind one way or the other (avoid suspicion of partisanism). A few competent guys getting paid to full-time check up on Romney's buddies. What obscure orgs do they coincidentally belong to? The policies of such orgs? Who are the buddies of Romney's buddies? I'm not claiming that there is necessarily anything secretive. PNAC wasn't a secret. It was out there for anybody to see, if a person had known what to look for.

Just sayin, Romney on the campaign trail seems more hawkish than G.W. on the Y2K campaign trail. Does that mean Romney gets us in even more wars than G.W.? Two big factors in busting the clinton-gingrich balanced budget-- Tax Cut and Wars. R's are agitating for more tax cuts. Maybe we can get some more wars too? Who says it can't get worse under Romney?

I'm not saying it will get worse under Romney and I'm sure as heck not happy with Obama. Maybe Romney wins and maybe he is the bestest ever president and I finally like a sitting president. Will be real happy if it turns out thataway. But it mystifies me that so many people think it is a no-brainer that things will be better under Romney than Obama. I hope so, but it ain't a no-brainer by any stretch.

[RobertNashville]

...Why do you think he (Romney) is pro-gun? The proof is in the pudding.

Please tell me when I have ever said he is "pro gun"? Please cite that post for me would you because if I ever said that I need to edit it.

What I have said and do say is that Obama is a Marxist/communist who would confiscate all guns given half a chance and will push for gun control measures in a second term (and in fact already is now pushing for an AWB which you seem to want to totally ignore) and his record shows Obama, among other things, doesn't even believe a person has a right to a firearm in his own home to use for his own protection per his vote on such a measure when he served in Illinois.

Vote or don't vote for whoever you wish but this argument that Romney is somehow more dangerous to 2A rights than Obama is simply without merit.

[Guest CCI]

Selective? You seem to be ignoring Romney's stance on guns altogether!

From the Fox News link CCI provided earlier:

Romney only changed his so called pro-gun stance for his POTUS run.

Why do you think he is pro-gun? The proof is in the pudding.

I was voting for Romney, until my Time magazine came. Aug., issue, HOW GUNS WON! I wasn't aware he had out-lawed AW 's in Massachusetts!

[Guest ThePunisher]

You didn't fall for the guilt trip?

You both may feel guilt, or maybe not, when Obama gets re-elected, and really starts to enact his plans of Marxist transformation of America; and remember, many here tried to warn you of the destruction of our country that Obama intends to do. In four years from now, you will not be able to recognize the America that we all once knew from the Amerika that Obama wants for everyone. I cannot convince you how really dangerous Obama is, and that there really is a dramatic difference in ideology between Romney and the commie. You will only know it when it will be too late to do anything to turn around the Obama Marxist policies. You have a choice of liberty and freedom or ball and chains. It's up to the people to decide those choices. I only hope you choose correctly, but I don't think you will take my advice.

Edited July 29, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Oh Shoot]

I was voting for Romney, until my Time magazine came. Aug., issue, HOW GUNS WON! I wasn't aware he had out-lawed AW 's in Massachusetts!

If BHO gets another term, there will never be a more conservative candidate than Romney with a chance to win, at least until The Crash. The Dems will tip the balance for their perpetual on-the-teat voting majority as things slide further and over 50% are beholden to the fed.

If Romney gets in, there's a chance for more conservative presidents down the road, even one to defeat Romney himself after four years, or at least to quicken the conservative pace after 8.

- OS

Edited July 29, 2012 by OhShoot

[daddyo]

You didn't fall for the guilt trip?

At my age, I think I'm pretty well immune.

[strickj]

Please tell me when I have ever said he is "pro gun"? Please cite that post for me would you because if I ever said that I need to edit it.

I apologize for assuming. But you have defended Romney's gun stance, though.

What I have said and do say is that Obama is a Marxist/communist who would confiscate all guns given half a chance and will push for gun control measures in a second term (and in fact already is now pushing for an AWB which you seem to want to totally ignore)

Maybe I have missed it. Is this active "pushing" (reads: legislation or pending legislation) or just hearsay based on his speech yesterday?

Vote or don't vote for whoever you wish but this argument that Romney is somehow more dangerous to 2A rights than Obama is simply without merit.

Oh, it is most definitely with merit. Both feel the same way and have said similar things about guns. Only one has actually signed laws restricting gun ownership.

Romney:

AWB - Check

Mag capacity restrictions - Check

Increased fees 400% - Check

Brady wait on guns - Check

Once received a lower rating from NRA then Ed Kennedy - Check

Openly supports bans on weapons that threaten police - Check

[Guest ThePunisher]

I was voting for Romney, until my Time magazine came. Aug., issue, HOW GUNS WON! I wasn't aware he had out-lawed AW 's in Massachusetts!

Time is just another liberal magazine that espouse the liberal BS.

[kieefer]

Don't forget Mitt was in a very liberal state and surroundings when he made some asinine decisions. This makes it even more critical that we fill the house and senate with real conservatives.

Unlike BHO I don't care so much about what MR did in the past, it's what he's going to do in the future. Oh Shoot is correct, Mitt is the best we are going to be able to do during this time in history.

I can almost imagine that people were saying the same things about Reagan. Mitt needs his chance, BHO has screwed his up royally.

[RobertNashville]

...Only one has actually signed laws restricting gun ownership.

Oh well that clears it up...statements that show Obama's gun grabbing wishes and VOTES on gun control measures don't count, only that he hasn't signed anything yet.

How lucky for Obama that he wasn't a governor and signed something before he ran for President. LOL

[strickj]

Oh well that clears it up...statements that show Obama's gun grabbing wishes and VOTES on gun control measures don't count, only that he hasn't signed anything yet.

How lucky for Obama that he wasn't a governor and signed something before he ran for President. LOL

sigh...

Again, never said Obama's didn't count. Only pointing out Romney has a harsher record.

[Guest CCI]

I apologize for assuming. But you have defended Romney's gun stance, though.

Maybe I have missed it. Is this active "pushing" (reads: legislation or pending legislation) or just hearsay based on his speech yesterday?

Oh, it is most definitely with merit. Both feel the same way and have said similar things about guns. Only one has actually signed laws restricting gun ownership.

Romney:

AWB - Check

Mag capacity restrictions - Check

Increased fees 400% - Check

Brady wait on guns - Check

Once received a lower rating from NRA then Ed Kennedy - Check

Openly supports bans on weapons that threaten police - Check

He was just a Governor when he signed that anti-gun law! If he is elected as President....I fear the thought of what he would do!