No Centerfire on furbearers during archery season ?

[R_Bert]

From the 2012-13 TN Huntguide

This is new, I think.

pretty much eliminates 4 weeks nearly six weeks of centerfire varmint hunting on private property this year....

http://www.eregulati...HD-FINAL-LR.pdf

Page 15, Misc. # 8

During an archery only or muzzleloader/

archery only deer, bear or elk season, furbearers

may not be taken with rifles and

handguns using centerfire ammunition.

During the gun/muzzleloader/archery

seasons, furbearers may be taken by legal

big game hunters licensed for the weapon

they are using

Edited July 26, 2012 by R_Bert

[DaveS]

Something don't sound right here. Did they remove "year round" coyote hunting with centerfire? Does that apply to WMA's only or does it include private land? Time to research!

Dave

[R_Bert]

Something don't sound right here. Did they remove "year round" coyote hunting with centerfire? Does that apply to WMA's only or does it include private land? Time to research!

Dave

yeah, I am confused. It is not in last years guide (in regards to private land).

[Howler]

TWRA will protect the animals that produce the most money. They don't want people "coyote hunting" with the old 06 during bow season. It kills these officers to know a guy is poaching but can't stop them.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Howler

[RED333]

I am calling it a safety thing, and I did not see anything about a "shotgun".

[DaveS]

I am calling it a safety thing, and I did not see anything about a "shotgun".

I can see that on public land but not private. It's kinda been that way for a while.

Dave

[zapfbroad]

i saw this yesterday and was wonderin too

[R_Bert]

In previous years, there was no such restriction on private land. There were limitations on WMA's, etc.

Not saying it don't happen, but I have never seen or called in a coyote close enough that I thought I could cleanly kill with a rimfire.

-edit -

I sent questions via FB message to TWRA

B.

Edited July 26, 2012 by R_Bert

[DaveS]

In previous years, there was no such restriction on private land. There were limitations on WMA's, etc.

Not saying it don't happen, but I have never seen or called in a coyote close enough that I thought I could cleanly kill with a rimfire.

-edit -

I sent questions via FB message to TWRA

B.

Rimfire and shotgun is about all we hunt them with. Don't under estimate a rimfire!

Dave

[Howler]

Talked to a warden about this very subject a couple years ago. It is 100% about limiting poaching. Even received a 30 min story about a known poacher and how he uses coyote hunting to shoot deer out of season.

[R_Bert]

Talked to a warden about this very subject a couple years ago. It is 100% about limiting poaching. Even received a 30 min story about a known poacher and how he uses coyote hunting to shoot deer out of season.

Rimfire and shotgun is about all we hunt them with. Don't under estimate a rimfire!

Dave

Which reminds me:

Alan Ricks (Lord rest his soul) told me that most of the poachers used .22LR, including the guys that did the elk up at Briceville.

If Howler is correct, then more of the "punish the good guys because that will stop the bad ones". But honestly, I doubt this, as centerfire is not banned during non-deer and off-seasons (Coyote is otherwise year round).

Edited July 27, 2012 by R_Bert

[DaveS]

I agree...

"Hunting 101" is way on top of preditor hunting...maybe he'll chime in here.

Dave

Edited July 27, 2012 by wd-40

[whiskey]

Look, no matter what they report to us publicly, there is a larger underlying reason for most of these laws. It's "ease of enforcement" and "ability to effectively prosecute".

The reason you can't hunt coyotes with a .223 during archery is because it's easier to make a case against a poacher if all centerfires are illegal during that time frame. Most of these laws are written to give the game wardens a chance at making their case stick when they are basing a bust on prima facie evidence. There is little regard given to what should make sense in the woods. There is no mistaking a coyote hunter with a deer poacher. He either has a dead deer or he doesn't. Possession of ANY weapon during ANY season should not be illegal. It's illegal to kill an animal out of season. Any law added beyond that is for "ease of enforcement". I know that lots of sorry butts are busted on little more than these flimsy prima facie cases, but I don't like having to worry about what new laws have popped up each year to make a game warden's job easier. If I ain't killing deer out of season, then I shouldn't have to worry about what I am hunting coyotes with.

[R_Bert]

Is there a decent source out there for the actual number of charges/prosecutions of poachers?

Looking through web searches finds a lot of articals on just a very few cases.

The guys who poach may do it a lot (Like Ft. Campbell & Sumner County cases a few years ago) , but it seems not many cases are reported for any given year.

Edited July 27, 2012 by R_Bert

[DaveS]

Look, no matter what they report to us publicly, there is a larger underlying reason for most of these laws. It's "ease of enforcement" and "ability to effectively prosecute".

The reason you can't hunt coyotes with a .223 during archery is because it's easier to make a case against a poacher if all centerfires are illegal during that time frame. Most of these laws are written to give the game wardens a chance at making their case stick when they are basing a bust on prima facie evidence. There is little regard given to what should make sense in the woods. There is no mistaking a coyote hunter with a deer poacher. He either has a dead deer or he doesn't. Possession of ANY weapon during ANY season should not be illegal. It's illegal to kill an animal out of season. Any law added beyond that is for "ease of enforcement". I know that lots of sorry butts are busted on little more than these flimsy prima facie cases, but I don't like having to worry about what new laws have popped up each year to make a game warden's job easier. If I ain't killing deer out of season, then I shouldn't have to worry about what I am hunting coyotes with.

Well said Buddy!

So, get off yur azz and lets hunt!

Dave

[R_Bert]

Time to start looking for a 5mm RMR. Aguila makes ammo for them.

Anyone aware of a bigger rimfire ?

[Howler]

If Howler is correct, then more of the "punish the good guys because that will stop the bad ones". But honestly, I doubt this, as centerfire is not banned during non-deer and off-seasons (Coyote is otherwise year round).

The statment came straight from a warden. It was his response to my questions about hunting on WMA's with centerfire when no big game season was in. I let him talk, uninterrupted, for a looong time. Poaching was without a doubt number one on the "reason" list. I'm sure safety may have been some of the reason for the rules changing on private land. They might see a problem with bow hunters (not wearing orange) in the same woods as the hunters shooting centerfire.

[R_Bert]

The statment came straight from a warden. It was his response to my questions about hunting on WMA's with centerfire when no big game season was in. I let him talk, uninterrupted, for a looong time. Poaching was without a doubt number one on the "reason" list. I'm sure safety may have been some of the reason for the rules changing on private land. They might see a problem with bow hunters (not wearing orange) in the same woods as the hunters shooting centerfire.

Not doubting your account at all, and no doubt there is bias amongst the wildlife enforcement officers.

However, unless it is an under the radar incremental approach, it makes no sense to apply to only 40 days of the year and not the rest (as deer can be poached year round, and even with rimfire equipment). The safety analysis would also fail logic (and lack of logic *is* a root cause in many of the regs).

Edited July 27, 2012 by R_Bert

[whiskey]

Not doubting your account at all, and no doubt there is bias amongst the wildlife enforcement officers.

However, unless it is an under the radar incremental approach, it makes no sense to apply to only 40 days of the year and not the rest (as deer can be poached year round, and even with rimfire equipment). The safety analysis would also fail logic (and lack of logic *is* a root cause in many of the regs).

R_Bert, your problem is that you aren't thinking like a poacher or a TWRA commissioner, you're thinking like a sensible, law-abiding citizen. You're never going to understand these laws with THAT mentality!

[Guest 270win]

When are we going to be able to night hunt coyotes? IF we can only use a 22 mag or 17hmr on coyotes on private property, why not allow night hunting on private property.

[R_Bert]

R_Bert, your problem is that you aren't thinking like a poacher or a TWRA commissioner, you're thinking like a sensible, law-abiding citizen. You're never going to understand these laws with THAT mentality!

i know....

I am attempting to have a dialogue with the TWRA FB site, and inquired -

Here is what I have from them so far -

This is not a new law it has just been written a little clearer. You are correct that during the archery and muzzleloader/archery only seasons no centerfire rifles maybe used to hunt coyotes. Only licensed big game hunters may use centerfire rifles during the gun/muzzl/archery season.

I have followed up with "what is the purpose of this regulation in regards to private lands?"

SO, apparently, during all of big game seasons, even on private property, you have to have a big game stamp to hunt predators with centerfire rifles (and not at all during archery season)..

This is absolutely contradictory to previous, clearly written regs regarding private lands, even just two years ago.

Edited July 27, 2012 by R_Bert

[ShaunM]

Unless we all get out voice our opinion I don't see any changes soon. Not using center fire during archery season has never really slowed me down. I just pull my shotgun or rim fire out and hit the woods. I do like how we are able to use T shot year round now, heck that's a good step in the right direction. I do however wish us law biding hunters wouldn't get punished because some idiot decided to shoot a deer illegally. Besides I have heard people talking about poaching and almost every time it's with a 22 mag, 17HMR or some small caliber rifle. Sorry I'm a little late on the conversation but haven't been on much due to health reasons and work.

[ShaunM]

i know....

I am attempting to have a dialogue with the TWRA FB site, and inquired -

Here is what I have from them so far -

I have followed up with "what is the purpose of this regulation in regards to private lands?"

SO, apparently, during all of big game seasons, even on private property, you have to have a big game stamp to hunt predators with centerfire rifles (and not at all during archery season)..

This is absolutely contradictory to previous, clearly written regs regarding private lands, even just two years ago.

It has pretty much been like this, they just tried to clarify it. The old regs were so confusing it was misleading some people. I do have to say that the new regs aren't much better.

[DaveS]

I hope all is well 101. Thanks for helping out.

Dave

[gregintenn]

Silly laws the TWRA foists upon us. I like to shoot squirrels with a 22 Hornet, or 218 Bee. Neither of which are any great advantage to a 22 or 17 magnum, but it's illegal. Makes no sense, but illegal indeed.