I have come to the conclusion that guns in the South are way overpriced.

[Guest TankerHC]

As some of you may know from some of my other posts, I just came off a 2 week Civil Wargasm. While in Pa, MD, Va, and W. Va. I beieve I stopped in over 100 gun stores.

First the stores. I grew up in MD, but have only been back a few times since joining the Army over 30 years ago. I usually go and stay with my cousin in York, Pa. In about a 10 square mile area of York, there are at least 20 guns stores. Mostly mom and pops. But there is also a Bass Pro, Gander Mountain and Dicks nearby. I would say in about a 60 square mile area, going up to Delaware, down through Gettysburg, into Harpers Ferry, W. Va and on into the Valley, there are at least 100 gun shops. Again, mostly mom and pops. In Fredericksburg, where I purchased my WWII Ithaca, speaking to the owner, he says (I dont know if this is fact), that they have the highest concentraton of FFL holders in the US. 2500 FFL Holders in a 20 mile radius of Fredericksburg.

The prices. Unbelievable. Prices up there are AT LEAST 15-20% lower than anywhere I have seen and bought guns south of Va. That includes TN, AL, MS, LA, TX and even up in Kentucky and Indiana. Just as examples, here are the prices of some of the guns I and my cousin purchased up there. In Pa, 2 1942 Mosin Nagants, in pristine condition (Armory refinished of course) with all accesories, $100 each. I know thats not a huge savings, but it is a savings. My 1944 Ithaca 1911, the dealer in Fredericksburg, had it listed on Gunbroker. We dealt, he came off that price by $400. I see that these dealers are willing to deal. I believe I know the reason, which I will mention in a minute. Brand new Stag Arms AR Model 3. $659. Everywhere else I see them for $729 and up. Used Raging Bull in 454 Casull. Better than 90%. $325. I was at my LGS today, he just got one in. Not in as a good a condition, his price, $525 firm. Brand new S&W 1911R1. My cousin got it for $599. Down here they are $699. Now, I have no idea how in the heck they are able to do that and make a profit, but it makes me wonder, are the manufacturers actually selling these guns to these dealers down here for a lot less than what is being thought? I understand when someone says "Well, they have to make a profit", but I am starting to think its more like price gouging. We bought more, for way less than you can get south of Va, and my cousin could not believe what I told him the prices are down here, he thought he was paying high prices.

My conclusion. In my current location in MS we have maybe 25 decent shops in a 100 mile area, if that. Except for two that I can think of, most of them have sparse offerings. I stopped in Dayton, TN and spent the night at my MIL's house on the way back, while there I checked for shops in the area around Dayton and Chattanooga. I didnt find many. The shops from Va. north, many of them are small shops, but they all had one thing in common. Guns on the walls to the ceilings, stacked gun to gun all the way around the stores and the cases were filled with Handguns. You can almost be guaranteed to find anything you want within a short drive. At least 1/3rd of these stores carried Class III. Many, many had nice ranges and Machine Gun rentals. The competition for business up there is fierce, the prices reflect that, the willingness to deal reflects that and the inventory, supplies and other amenities like free ranges, or low cost non member ranges and Machine Gun rentals also reflect that. I cant speak for TN, because I dont live there yet (soon though) but here in MS, you wont find any of that.

I know that "If you dont like the prices, dont shop there". And I have decided, I wont be shopping locally any longer. I fully support the mom and pops, but when there is that much price variation, its well worth it to save the money, and take a trip every month or two up into Va, or Pa, and buy. I am not exagerating when I say many of those shops beat out even Buds prices on new guns. And where, down here, you find that Mom and Pops are struggling having to compete against the likes of Academy, up there its just the opposite. Go into Bass Pro, Dicks, Gander Mountain, go to the gun sections, no one there. Go to the small stores, they are packed with customers, every time you walk in.

Just my 2 cents.

[TrickyNicky]

Not really sure how gun retail works. I do know in other areas of retail your distributer or lack there of can make or break your profit margins.

I managed a store that was devoted to it's main distributer up until we realized just how much more we were paying for the convenience of "one stop" ordering. Was we started ordering direct from manufactures the profits went from 30-40% at MSRP to 30-40% at a substantial saving for our customers to the tune of 20-30% off MSRP.

It could also flat out be price gouging, around here there are only a few local places to shop mom and pop and I tell you when you hear about the kind of price breaks you can get going just twenty miles away it kind of makes you wonder.

[daddyo]

Seems like the simple answer might be supply and demand. Are more firearms sold in the south?

[Daniel]

I find it odd that you are able to purchase handguns out of state.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Can you purchase rifles out of state?

[Guest bkelm18]

Can you purchase rifles out of state?

Yes.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I believe he was saying the dealer had his pistol listed on GB and was from VA. Not that he went up there and bought it.

Dealers down here belly ache all the time about how they don't make any money but they do or at least the hundreds of deals I have watched they do. Most of their money is made on used guns but they do make a fair amount on new guns as well. I have seen it hundreds of times where a deaker will buy a used gun then double that for an asking price. I have seen them take a $300 pistol in on trade and give the seller $100 trade in value then sell it 3 minutes later for $250. I have seen the same dealer asking $579 for the Keltec a PMR-30. I know he is getting them for 1/2 that because CDNN sells them all the time for $299. So the dealers are making money on people who are either too trusting or don't know the value of their gun.

Another thing, as a seller you need to know the value of your gun. All to often people don't know the value of their guns and let them go way to cheap. I watched a guy sell a very nice Colt SAA first generation for nearlty nothing. The dealer belly ached about how it was an old gun and notbody wanted those. In the end, if I remember correctly, the Colt sold for under $300 to the dealer. I walked by a few minutes later and the dealer had $2,500 on the gun and would likely get close to that.

I have threatened to do gun appraisals at the shows. Every dealer I mentioned that to looked at me like I had killed their first born. I even had one dealer say I might not make it out of the parking lot if I did. I know if someone did that they could make a lot of money doing it. Even if you only charged 1% of the apprasal price you could really clean up.

There are local dealers that BEAT online sellers. It is the dealers that do not have a fancy store or realize they do not need to make $100 on every sale. One in particular is responsible for nearly all my new gun purchases in the last 2 years.

Dolomite

[Guest Revelator]

I don't know Dolo, the way Tanker described it, it looks like he went to Virginia and met with the dealer. Said the dealer reduced the gunbroker price by $400. Said also "In Fredericksburg, where I purchased my Ithaca..."

You can buy a rifle or shotgun out of state under the following:

It's from a licensed dealer;

It's legal under the laws of the state where you live;

It's legal under the laws of the state where you make the purchase.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As some of you may know from some of my other posts, I just came off a 2 week Civil Wargasm. While in Pa, MD, Va, and W. Va. I beieve I stopped in over 100 gun stores.

First the stores. I grew up in MD, but have only been back a few times since joining the Army over 30 years ago. I usually go and stay with my cousin in York, Pa. In about a 10 square mile area of York, there are at least 20 guns stores. Mostly mom and pops. But there is also a Bass Pro, Gander Mountain and Dicks nearby. I would say in about a 60 square mile area, going up to Delaware, down through Gettysburg, into Harpers Ferry, W. Va and on into the Valley, there are at least 100 gun shops. Again, mostly mom and pops. In Fredericksburg, where I purchased my WWII Ithaca, speaking to the owner, he says (I dont know if this is fact), that they have the highest concentraton of FFL holders in the US. 2500 FFL Holders in a 20 mile radius of Fredericksburg.

The prices. Unbelievable. Prices up there are AT LEAST 15-20% lower than anywhere I have seen and bought guns south of Va. That includes TN, AL, MS, LA, TX and even up in Kentucky and Indiana. Just as examples, here are the prices of some of the guns I and my cousin purchased up there. In Pa, 2 1942 Mosin Nagants, in pristine condition (Armory refinished of course) with all accesories, $100 each. I know thats not a huge savings, but it is a savings. My 1944 Ithaca 1911, the dealer in Fredericksburg, had it listed on Gunbroker. We dealt, he came off that price by $400. I see that these dealers are willing to deal. I believe I know the reason, which I will mention in a minute. Brand new Stag Arms AR Model 3. $659. Everywhere else I see them for $729 and up. Used Raging Bull in 454 Casull. Better than 90%. $325. I was at my LGS today, he just got one in. Not in as a good a condition, his price, $525 firm. Brand new S&W 1911R1. My cousin got it for $599. Down here they are $699. Now, I have no idea how in the heck they are able to do that and make a profit, but it makes me wonder, are the manufacturers actually selling these guns to these dealers down here for a lot less than what is being thought? I understand when someone says "Well, they have to make a profit", but I am starting to think its more like price gouging. We bought more, for way less than you can get south of Va, and my cousin could not believe what I told him the prices are down here, he thought he was paying high prices.

My conclusion. In my current location in MS we have maybe 25 decent shops in a 100 mile area, if that. Except for two that I can think of, most of them have sparse offerings. I stopped in Dayton, TN and spent the night at my MIL's house on the way back, while there I checked for shops in the area around Dayton and Chattanooga. I didnt find many. The shops from Va. north, many of them are small shops, but they all had one thing in common. Guns on the walls to the ceilings, stacked gun to gun all the way around the stores and the cases were filled with Handguns. You can almost be guaranteed to find anything you want within a short drive. At least 1/3rd of these stores carried Class III. Many, many had nice ranges and Machine Gun rentals. The competition for business up there is fierce, the prices reflect that, the willingness to deal reflects that and the inventory, supplies and other amenities like free ranges, or low cost non member ranges and Machine Gun rentals also reflect that. I cant speak for TN, because I dont live there yet (soon though) but here in MS, you wont find any of that.

I know that "If you dont like the prices, dont shop there". And I have decided, I wont be shopping locally any longer. I fully support the mom and pops, but when there is that much price variation, its well worth it to save the money, and take a trip every month or two up into Va, or Pa, and buy. I am not exagerating when I say many of those shops beat out even Buds prices on new guns. And where, down here, you find that Mom and Pops are struggling having to compete against the likes of Academy, up there its just the opposite. Go into Bass Pro, Dicks, Gander Mountain, go to the gun sections, no one there. Go to the small stores, they are packed with customers, every time you walk in.

Just my 2 cents.

Well if he did do a face to face on a pistol out of state it is pretty stupid on his part as well as the dealer's part. Not sure how the dealer got around the background unless it wasn't in inventory which it doesn't sound like it because it was on GB. Or maybe the dealer let one of the cousins buy it then the OP took possession of it. Or maybe the dealer had no clue the OP was from out of state but I don't think that is the case because they haggled the deal. But unless it was transferred into his state of residence the OP broke the law.

And if he is taking a trip every month or two to purchase firearms out of state he is in for some serious problems if caught. That is unless he is transferring every one of them and if that is the case the deals are not that great of a deal.

Definitely time to think about how to stay out of the FPMITAP.

Dolomite

[BrasilNuts]

I'm sure he had the handguns transferred to a local FFL.

[hkusp40cal]

Alot of the pricing has to do with how the dealer buys their firearms. When I worked at a store they bought from distributors and would complain about how that cut their profits. If they buy direct from the manufacturer they can save a ton of money but also have to purchase $xxxx.xx firearms over the year and you are also stuck getting less desirable models in order to get these packages.

[Steelharp]

FPMITAP

Wazzat?

[dats82]

FPMITAP

Wazzat?

I think it means something along the lines of; Federal, Poke Me In The A**, Prison

[DaveTN]

All gun dealers don’t pay the same price. They are at the mercy of distributors. I’m waiting for one of the big boys (S&W, Ruger, Remington) to cut out the middleman and sell direct to dealers. We have to have dealers to be able to buy guns; Distributors are just overhead.

New gun prices in Illinois are less than they are here.

[hornett22]

Guns where cheaper in Connecticut while I lived there but everything else was at least double. I'll be fine back here paying a little more for guns. The purchasing process here is much easier as well.

[Guest sL1k]

There are some pretty good mark ups in Chattanooga I have worked out some good deals with home based ffls around here that beat out buds prices so unless I can find it used on gun broker for a deep discount that's the route I go.

The reason its cheaper in VA is simple competition!

[Guest TankerHC]

I find it odd that you are able to purchase handguns out of state.

Purchase the gun, the dealer ships to your FFL. Ever buy a handgun online? Same thing.

[Guest TankerHC]

Can you purchase rifles out of state?

You can purchase any gun you want out of state. Rifles and shotguns you carry right out of the store like anywhere else. Handguns have to be shipped to your FFL in your state for transfer.

[Guest TankerHC]

I believe he was saying the dealer had his pistol listed on GB and was from VA. Not that he went up there and bought it.

Dolomite

Actually, yes, I went there and bought it. I found it on Gunbroker and went to the dealer as I was on my vacation and in the area the next day.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well if he did do a face to face on a pistol out of state it is pretty stupid on his part as well as the dealer's part.

Dolomite

It is 100% legal to buy a handgun out of state. You can walk into any shop, and if the dealer doesnt have his head up his azz will know that it is legal, as long as you dont walk out of the shop with it. You have to have it shipped to an FFL back in your home state. I carry a copy of my dealers FFL around in my car. When I buy a handgun out of state, I just let them make a copy and send it off. Nothing to it and no laws broken.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well if he did do a face to face on a pistol out of state it is pretty stupid on his part as well as the dealer's part. Not sure how the dealer got around the background unless it wasn't in inventory which it doesn't sound like it because it was on GB. Or maybe the dealer let one of the cousins buy it then the OP took possession of it. Or maybe the dealer had no clue the OP was from out of state but I don't think that is the case because they haggled the deal. But unless it was transferred into his state of residence the OP broke the law.

And if he is taking a trip every month or two to purchase firearms out of state he is in for some serious problems if caught. That is unless he is transferring every one of them and if that is the case the deals are not that great of a deal.

Definitely time to think about how to stay out of the FPMITAP.

Dolomite

It is 100% legal to buy a handgun out of state. You can walk into any shop, and if the dealer doesnt have his head up his azz will know that it is legal, as long as you dont walk out of the shop with it. You have to have it shipped to an FFL back in your home state. I carry a copy of my dealers FFL around in my car. When I buy a handgun out of state, I just let them make a copy and send it off. Nothing to it and no laws broken.

Also the seller does not have to do a 4473, the 4473 is done at your FFL before the gun is transferred.

[Guest TankerHC]

Also the seller does not have to do a 4473, the 4473 is done at your FFL before the gun is transferred.

Also the seller does not have to do a 4473, the 4473 is done at your FFL before the gun is transferred.

Dolomite, I thought you were up on gun laws. I follow a lot of your posts. I can go out of state and buy as many rifles and shotguns as I want, do a 4473 and carry them home. Nothing illegal about it. Handguns a different story. Handguns can be purchased out of state, go buy all the handguns you want. But, they HAVE TO BE shipped to your FFL and transferred there. Thats where you do your 4473.

[Guest TankerHC]

Definitely time to think about how to stay out of the FPMITAP.

Dolomite

Definitely time to start reading up on the BATFE's website.

[Guest TankerHC]

The purchasing process here is much easier as well.

That statement has me wondering. How is it easier. Anywhere you go short of DC, Illinois and a few other anti 2A states, you shop, pick out your rifle or shotgun or whatever, do your 4473, pass the background check, pay for the gun. And go home. If your out of state and buy a handgun you do all of the same except it gets shipped and you do the 4473 and background check at your FFL. So, how is it easier in TN?

[LI0NSFAN]

When I was in Michigan the last time I remembere seeing 10+ ruger 10/22 for 175 or less, all in great shape. I was telling the guy behind the counter that I could not find a deal like that in TN. I told him that I have not seen one for less than 200 used. He lauhed and said it would be hard to sell that here because they sell the new ones for $190. I was amazed at some of the prices. I was not aware that I could buy a rifle out of state and not have to transfer it to a FFL. I might have to pick up some stuff next time.