Question About Water

[subsonic]

A "purifier" will remove viruses, a "filter" will not. They're a little more expensive, but well worth it.

[Moped]

If you are getting your water from a moving source, a filter should be adequate. From a pond, I'd probably want a purifier. I've used the Katadyn filter and it's great. I'm hearing good things from the Sawyer Squeeze Bag too. It comes with a 0.1 micron filter, a syringe for backwash, straws and 16oz, 32oz and 64oz, water bags. The filter will has a standard sized mouth so you can screw it onto a standard water bottle from the store.

[Clod Stomper]

Lots of good advice here. I know for sure that 1 liter per day wouldn't be near enough for me even with cool temps and little activity. I'd plan for AT LEAST a gallon per person per day. Just for hydration. More if it's hot and/or you're working hard.

[Chazmr]

Get one of the Berkey filters.

They are considered the best standard filter.

The Sport is reasonably priced but the Go Berkey will last a lifetime if not longer. We bought a Big Berkey earlier this year and it is the best money we have ever spent. ANd it is still small enough to be able to take it with us.

Dolomite

I was just about ready to purchase one of these, but I've been a little put off by the number of complaints I see online regarding the black filters coming apart within a fairly short period of time. It sounds like you've been real pleased with yours. Have you had any problems with the filters at all?

Thanks,

Chazmr

[Dolomite_supafly]

I was just about ready to purchase one of these, but I've been a little put off by the number of complaints I see online regarding the black filters coming apart within a fairly short period of time. It sounds like you've been real pleased with yours. Have you had any problems with the filters at all?

Thanks,

Chazmr

We fill ours up at least once a day and have for months now without a single problem. They are ceramic so you can't man handle them. I suspect those that are complaining expect them to impervious to rough handling which is not the case. Our filter does get moved around a bit so it does get jostled and we have ZERO complaints.

I have had to deal with an issue with the company redarding a missing part. Because of their attitude and willingness to help I would be willing to bet they would make things right.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

....

Even a single black filter will outlast most people. A dangle filter is rated for 3,000 gallons and can be cleaned and renewed at least 100 times. That gives you 300,000 gallons or over 250 years if you filter 3 gallons a day.

I've been thinking about getting one of the larger Berkey setups for some time.

It's my understanding that the black filters (or ceramic ones) are rated for 3K gallons max, including however many cleaning sessions to keep them free flowing?

Can't find any figure mentioned over 3K gallons, or 6K gallons per pair. I'm reading this wrong? Or what?

"How do I know when it is time to replace the Black Berkey filters in my system?

The manufacturer suggests 2 methods. The first method is:

1. Multiply the number of Black Berkey filters in your system by 3,000 gallons to get Total Life in gallons for all filter elements within the system.
   
2. Next, keep track of how many gallons of water you normally use in one day this is Total Use.
   
3. Then divide the Total Life by the Total Use. This will be the approximate number of days your filter elements will last before they need replacement.
   
4. Next, calculate the future date to replace the filters. Write that date on a sticker and attach it to the bottom of your system for future reference"
   

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkeyfaqs.htm

http://www.bigberkey...filters-2-p-187

http://www.bigberkey...lter_comparison

http://www.bigberkey...and-comparison/

- OS

Edited July 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

Each black filter is rated to 3,000 gallons. And most come with two filters giving a rating of 6,000 gallons between cleanings. Now you can add additional filters to increase that as well as filtering speed.

And because they can last 100 cleanings a two filter system will supposedly last 600,000 gallons or over 500 years at 3 gallons a day. Add two more filters to double the life and filtering speed.

Dolomite

Edited July 21, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[Dolomite_supafly]

Even if the actual performance is only 1/10 the advertised performance they will last linger than most people who would buy one.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

Each black filter is rated to 3,000 gallons. And most come with two filters giving a rating of 6,000 gallons between cleanings. Now you can add additional filters to increase that as well as filtering speed.

And because they can last 100 cleanings a two filter system will supposedly last 600,000 gallons or over 500 years at 3 gallons a day. Add two more filters to double the life and filtering speed.

Dolomite

I just can't find that claim anywhere in Berkey's stuff, only that single filters are good for 3,000 gallons, period. Can be cleaned any number of times, but that's only to clear up diminished flow, but doesn't increase the 3K gallon lifetime?

Again from http://www.berkeyfil.../berkeyfaqs.htm, with additional at bottom that I left out in above post. They make no claim that they last past the 3K gallons each.

----------------------

How do I know when it is time to replace the Black Berkey filters in my system?

The manufacturer suggests 2 methods. The first method is:

1. Multiply the number of Black Berkey filters in your system by 3,000 gallons to get Total Life in gallons for all filter elements within the system.
   
2. Next, keep track of how many gallons of water you normally use in one day this is Total Use.
   
3. Then divide the Total Life by the Total Use. This will be the approximate number of days your filter elements will last before they need replacement.
   
4. Next, calculate the future date to replace the filters. Write that date on a sticker and attach it to the bottom of your system for future reference.
   

Example: If you had a family of 4 and each person drinks 1/2 gallon of water a day you would use 2 gallons a day. A two filter system lasts 6000 gallons. Divide 6000 by 2. This gives you 3000. That's 3000 days before you would need to replace your filters. 3000 divided by 365 days a year would be 8.2 years filter life!

Your Black Berkey filter elements will never stop working; the filtration rate just slows down.

This brings us to the second method. If after cleaning your elements they do not filter any faster; it is time to replace them.

----------------

Big Berkey says:

Key Features:

With Two Black Berkey purification elements $258.00

• Will produce 6000 gallons of drinking water before needing to be replaced
  

Sure seems to me the advertized performance is only 3,000 gallons per filter?

- OS

Edited July 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

On top of this you can clean them up to 100 times using a green scrub pad.

Also, the life depends on the water going in. If you are filtering mud then of course the filters won't last as long but with clear water it should last a very long time.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/cleaning-black-berkey-filters.htm

Here is where it says the filters can be cleaned 100 times.

If the filters lasted 3,000 gallons WITH cleaning then they would only last 30 gallons without. We have had ours for about 4 months now or close to 400 gallons without a cleaning. Long overdue if the life was only 39 gallons.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

http://www.berkeyfil...key-filters.htm

Here is where it says the filters can be cleaned 100 times.

If the filters lasted 3,000 gallons WITH cleaning then they would only last 30 gallons without.

Dolomite

Disagree with your interpretation, FWIW. Can clean 100 times, but each time does not add filter life, just restores flow. How often you need to clean them just depends on how much stuff is in the water, especially particulate matter. If you were filtering pond water you'd probably already have had to clean them, as it is, you may not have to at all, or rarely till/if you hit the limit.

here's more: read here: http://www.berkeyfil...r-challenge.htm

and:

"No need for expensive disposable filters. Black Berkey® purification elements are cleanable. When the flow rate decreases simply brush the Black Berkey® purification elements with a ScotchBrite® pad under running water, reinstall and your system is again ready to purify water. Each durable and efficient purification element will last for up to 3,000 gallons (6,000 gallons per set of two) and provide years of efficient water purification." (http://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html)

But no biggie, helluva capacity to begin with.

I sent email to both the manufacturer and official sales site, since I am really interested in getting one and might as well know for sure, but all searches show that the 3K max per filter is right, which is why they keep mentioning replacement at that mark.

It's the same with my Katydyn Pocket jobbie. Will do up to 13,000 gallons, but of course it's slow and takes pumping pressure to do it at all. In real world it's unlikely to do that much, as you can also clean it unlimited times (to restore flow, not to increase life), but if you're filtering cruddy water all the time, cleaning will eventually reduce filter too much before the 13K is reached -- since it's primarily for portable use by one or two people, it's reasonable to assume that you won't always be grabbing your emergency water from a very clear source while on the move, and will have to be cleaned fairly often. I'm sure that's why Berkey says "100 times" as that's what they figure the max to be before you degrade it dimensionally. The Katydyn ships with a little gauge to tell if filter dimensions are still in spec.

Water is the first and foremost thing needed if social services crap out, certainly that Berky with a spare set of filters to give 12,000 gallon capability would be really something. Would actually be the diff as to whether an actual group of people could survive, not just an individual. And no pumping, just gravity flow, that's big.

- OS

Edited July 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Oh Shoot]

damn, dunno why I hit quote instead of edit on this interface more than the vBulletin.

Edited July 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

You are provably right. I never thought of it in that light. To me clean means clean or just like new.

I suspect mine will last a lit longer than 3k too because I am filtering clean water.

Dolomite

[Caster]

I bought a Katadyn Hiker model tonight. I know it's not the best but it'll do 200 gallons per filter. That'll be perfect for my Day Pack.

[Oh Shoot]

... I suspect mine will last a lit longer than 3k too because I am filtering clean water.

Dunno. Berkey plays it pretty close to the vest about its technology, but I get the impression it has to do with breakdown of the incredibly small pores of the mesh material due to osmotic pressure of the x number of gallons through it. Katadyn, besides similar type filtration, also uses some sort of activated silver in some of their models, which limits the capacity on a reactive chemical basis to volume of water.

Anyway, with Berkey, the red food coloring test seems to be the best way to really know, probably oughtta run that some toward the end of the filters' expected life. They actually suggest every 6 months or so I think as an ongoing test. 'Course, you all ain't filtering cholera and other type death water in the first place.

- OS

Edited July 22, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest bkelm18]

I bought a Katadyn Hiker model tonight. I know it's not the best but it'll do 200 gallons per filter. That'll be perfect for my Day Pack.

I like my Hiker Pro. It's served me well on a few intense hikes that outlasted the 3 liters I had in my Camelbak.

[Caster]

I like my Hiker Pro. It's served me well on a few intense hikes that outlasted the 3 liters I had in my Camelbak.

Yeah, I didn't get the Pro model. It's just the Hiker model from Academy. They had a nicer one for $100 but I wanted other toys too.

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, I didn't get the Pro model. It's just the Hiker model from Academy. They had a nicer one for $100 but I wanted other toys too.

200 gallons is a helluva nice cushion whatever the reasons one may need it.

- OS

[Caster]

200 gallons is a helluva nice cushion whatever the reasons one may need it.

- OS

That was my thinking. Potable water is gonna have to be non existent before I break this out.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If all hell breaks loose I will have water, drinkable water. We only filter our well water because we want to not because we have to. Since adding the hand pump I have ZERO concerns about water. Last year during the outages I found out water was my weak spot. Not I can have water to drink and flushable toilets because I am on a septic system. Having not to dig holes is a great thing.

Dolomite

[Jamie Jackson]

Dolomite, Os et al;

We have been using our Big Berkey daily...constantly...for several years now and our original white ceramic filters are still working great. I clean them with a green scrubber about every 4 months or so. They easily pass the red food coloring test.

We are only filtering municipal water at this time, and we've added the PF-2 attachment. The improvement in taste is remarkable imho...they heavily chlorinate the water here in West Knox at intervals.

We do rain water collection, but I have made and maintain a "water pre-filtering system" out of two 5 gallon buckets, sand, and charcoal...so even muddy pond water wouldn't rapidly clog up the Berkey filters.

fwiw we have a set of Black Berkey filters and a spare parts kit in our storage...just in case...

In each of my GHB/BOB's I keep the Berkey Sport Bottle, and a couple of bandannas (multiple uses) that can be used for pre-filtering water.

I gave a Sport Berkey to a friend of mine earlier this year and she used it on a 3 week Mission trip in Haiti. I think the majority of the folks on the trip with her have now purchased the Sport Berkeys.

My only concern with having pretty much any water filter system or purifier stored in my GHB/BOB is the unit potentially receiving damage from protracted sub freezing temperatures if the unit is wet...(has water in the filter)...so I try to remember to bring my GHB/BOB in at night...It may not be necessary and I admit I am not always diligent about such things...but I haven't noticed any issues with them over the past couple of years.

And since being prepared means having redundant capabilities, I also have iodine tablets and a small container (10 ml) of bleach in my bag. And a metal cup that I can boil water in...multiple items with multiple uses...

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Dolomite, Os et al;

We have been using our Big Berkeydaily...constantly...for several years now and our original white ceramic filters are still working great. I clean them with a green scrubber about every 4 months or so. They easily pass the red food coloring test.

We are only filtering municipal water at this time, and we've added the PF-2 attachment. The improvement in taste is remarkable imho...they heavily chlorinate the water here in West Knox at intervals.

We do rain water collection, but I have made and maintain a "water pre-filtering system" out of two 5 gallon buckets, sand, and charcoal...so even muddy pond water wouldn't rapidly clog up the Berkey filters.

fwiw we have a set of Black Berkey filters and a spare parts kit in our storage...just in case...

In each of my GHB/BOB's I keep the Berkey Sport Bottle, and a couple of bandannas (multiple uses) that can be used for pre-filtering water.

I gave a Sport Berkey to a friend of mine earlier this year and she used it on a 3 week Mission trip in Haiti. I think the majority of the folks on the trip with her have now purchased the Sport Berkeys.

My only concern with having pretty much any water filter system or purifier stored in my GHB/BOB is the unit potentially receiving damage from protracted sub freezing temperatures if the unit is wet...(has water in the filter)...so I try to remember to bring my GHB/BOB in at night...It may not be necessary and I admit I am not always diligent about such things...but I haven't noticed any issues with them over the past couple of years.

And since being prepared means having redundant capabilities, I also have iodine tablets and a small container (10 ml) of bleach in my bag. And a metal cup that I can boil water in...multiple items with multiple uses...

Thats what I like to hear.. I love my Berkey

[Jamie Jackson]

fwiw folks, and I have no financial link whatsoever, Jeff Gleason at Directive 21 is a decent guy to do business with.

When I first received a Berkey Sport bottle I noticed the filter in it looked remarkably like the Black Berkey filters I have set back. I sent an e-mail to Jeff and he phoned me within a few minutes.

He's very personable, knowledgeable, and helpful. So, from my personal experience if you want to talk with someone that's a prepper and running a business related to that aspect of your life, Jeff's a good to go guy.

I don't mean this to sound like a commercial or anything. But I get tired of contacting a business with questions about a product, and maybe...just maybe...getting a response from their "customer support" personnel who may or may not be knowledgeable about their products.

also fwiw and at risk of creating a potential thread drift, and so it won't seem so much like a Directive 21 commercial... ...Chris Ondatje at Honeyville Grain offers the same level of great service.

Edited July 22, 2012 by prag

[Oh Shoot]

You are provably right. I never thought of it in that light. To me clean means clean or just like new...

Dolo, just to confirm, response from the retail part of the org:

-----------------

"From: Customer Service <customerservice@bigberkeywaterfilters.com>

To: Mac---- <-----@comcast.net>

Hi Mac -

You are correct. It's 3000 gallons total, and then you can clean them

if needed during that 3000 gallon lifetime.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks

Dan DeBaun"

--------

- OS