Where are 1911s made?

[graycrait]

From time to time I have pursued this but haven't found one comprehensive source that discusses. Is there one comprehenise source that details the manufacturing of parts and assembly of 1911s?

For instance:

1. Although Springfield frames and slides and some whole guns are made by Imbel which ones and how much is done in the US and what small parts are used?

2. Who does Metro Arms and Rock Island produce frames and slides for besides themselves?

3. Who makes a 1911 including the small parts entirely of US made parts? And who makes the parts?

I realize that few can make all the parts of an entire 1911 and that some parts have to come to come from outside a branded organization.

I am not foreign phobic (I own a fair pile of Glocks) but am just interested in having a more complete understanding of 1911 manufacture.

I read that Rock Island (Philippines) has no MIM parts. Can that be true and if so does it really matter - MIM or no MIM?

Thanks,

Craig in Clarksville

[tyrantrave]

I know Dan Wesson is 100% US made with no MIM parts. Here is a pretty decent 1911 guide:

http://gunstuff-jd.b...de-revised.html

Edited July 15, 2012 by tyrantrave

[jcoosi]

Good ones are made in new york.

[graycrait]

jcoosi, you must mean Remingtons and not that other 1911 outfit in Yonkers?

[Guest Vamarine]

From time to time I have pursued this but haven't found one comprehensive source that discusses. Is there one comprehenise source that details the manufacturing of parts and assembly of 1911s?

For instance:

1. Although Springfield frames and slides and some whole guns are made by Imbel which ones and how much is done in the US and what small parts are used?

2. Who does Metro Arms and Rock Island produce frames and slides for besides themselves?

3. Who makes a 1911 including the small parts entirely of US made parts? And who makes the parts?

I realize that few can make all the parts of an entire 1911 and that some parts have to come to come from outside a branded organization.

I am not foreign phobic (I own a fair pile of Glocks) but am just interested in having a more complete understanding of 1911 manufacture.

I read that Rock Island (Philippines) has no MIM parts. Can that be true and if so does it really matter - MIM or no MIM?

Thanks,

Craig in Clarksville

The real issue with all of this is that even if we were to say that today "X" manufactuer makes their guns with "W", next week that could change.

Regarding Springfields, the "NM" serial numbered guns ahave a majority of the finishing / fitting done in the US, the "N" prefix serial numbered guns are done with a majority of the work in Brazil. As for small parts, who knows. Springfeild's have some MIM parts, pretty much everyone uses some MIM parts, more on that later...

When it comes to the Filippino guns, you have the Armscor, Rock Island and Citadel brand and the Metro Arms / FireStrom / American Classic brands. As to who else uses those, STI has one gun, the Spartan if I recall that is built on Armscor or other Fillipino frame/slide but it mostly finished in the US with STI parts etc.

As for RIA and MIM parts, they have them:

The Rock Island Armory FS Match .45 ACP pistol is assembled and fitted in the Custom Shop at Armscor, in the Philippines. As stated earlier in this review, the slide and frame are hand fitted, and the rest of the components of the gun consist of parts that are made by Armscor. These parts are primarily Metal Injected Moldings, as told to me by Ivan Walcott. The M1911.ORG Forum is full of positive and negative comments concerning the use of MIM in handguns. Correctly manufactured parts that are covered by a Limited Lifetime Warranty should cause no denigration of the quality found in a Rock Island pistol. A manufacturing fact of life is represented by the use of MIM parts. They do not require labor intensive fitting, and allow the manufacturer to pass cost savings on to the consumer. I have thus far tested three guns that are either solely a Rock Island product, or that contained major components from Armscor. I have found nothing wrong with the quality of any of those three examples. I might add that I normally put more ammunition through a test pistol in the course of a review, than a majority of handgun owners would fire in a span of months. I have experienced zero failures in my test samples.

MIM parts can be good or bad. We can thank a couple of manufactueres for the negatives assocaited with MIM, and Kimber isn't the only one of them. Some can be good, some can be bad. Typically you won't know until they break. The same can be said of tool steel parts. The way to tell a MIM parts from forged/tool steel is that you can see lines from the mold. Personally, I'd rather not have MIM parts in some applications, particulary hammers and other igntion parts.

As far as MIM goes, Springfield does a pretty good job. Colt uses some, and I'm sure Remington and Ruger do as well. It's pretty much here to stay in most of the mid teir guns. The only ones that come to mind as being MIM free are the above mentioned Dan Wessons, and the Sig line of 1911s, however there have been some reports in recent years that there have been some changes to that regarding Sig.

Ed Brown 1911s are MIM free, Les Baer may have a couple there and there. Wilsons typically don't, Nighthawks may have some depending on how exactly they are orderd. I have a Nighthawk that is equipped with a Kimber ambi safety that is a MIM part. I have had only one MIM part failure and that was due to a combination of issues.

If you want a MIM free gun, you're probably going to have to pay more for it, IF the data on the Sig pans out and the have some MIM parts, Dan Wesson is typically the "cheapest" of the non MIM guns available and you'll be looking at over $1K easy.

Regarding the US made guns with US parts, I'd take a look at:

Smith & Wesson: unknown but likely to be a majority if not all US

Ruger: Same as above

Kimber: They advertise that almost all their parts are made in house

Dan Wesson

Ed Brown

Remington?Not really sure.

Wilson and Nighthawk etc.

I know Dan Wesson is 100% US made with no MIM parts. Here is a pretty decent 1911 guide:

http://gunstuff-jd.b...de-revised.html

Thanks, I'm still working on editing it and revising, catching a lot of typo's etc....

Here's another guide that is more model specific:

http://www.1911addicts.com/showthread.php?511-Buyer-s-guide-for-all-you-1911-addicts...

jcoosi, you must mean Remingtons and not that other 1911 outfit in Yonkers?

Dan Wesson is in NY, as well is Fusion Firearms...that's another maker that should be all US, no MIM. There's a LOT of happy Fusion Buyers out there.

[Murgatroy]

For some odd reason, I am not in the slightest bit surprised that a thread about 1911s took me to Bac's Carpet.

[Guest Vamarine]

For some odd reason, I am not in the slightest bit surprised that a thread about 1911s took me to Bac's Carpet.

I know, right???

[TMF]

jcoosi, you must mean Remingtons and not that other 1911 outfit in Yonkers?

We Kimber hatin' again?

[graycrait]

http://www.1911addic...1911-addicts...

Now that is a very educational link, thanks Vamarine. I grew up about 85 miles from Conrad.

TMF 18B: I didn't think I was being too subtle:) Just joking around, fishing for a bite;) Kimbers are fine. I have friends who own them.

I forget about Fusion.

I do know a fella who has over 44 1911s. I should start nudging him towards reviewing them.

Vamarine, again thanks for the link and your info. There are so many makers of 1911s I just wanted to start sorting and categorizing them in my head. I run into a lot of guys who like to trumpet their disgust for any pistol but 1911s, with many of these same fellas not having a clue what they are talking about. I've only had a dozen or so 1911s and have just one right now, a pseudo 1911 - Springfield Loaded Target 9mm. I thought I got it for a decent price and wanted to fool around with the design again, one with easy recoil, using less expensive ammo.

[SonnyCrockett]

The finest 1911s are made in Arkansas

but no matter where your 1911 is made it should have been made

on US soil by US hands...

[DaveTN]

3. Who makes a 1911 including the small parts entirely of US made parts? And who makes the parts?

Smith & Wesson has their own facilities that do Forging, Casting and contract machining for many things besides guns. They make their own frames and slides, and production parts.

Unfortunately they do use some MIM parts. I think S&W and Kimber make the best production 1911’s out there. S&W waited a long time to make their own 1911, but when they did; they did it right.

[SonnyCrockett]

I wonder where the MIM comes from......Im guessing China

[DaveTN]

I wonder where the MIM comes from......Im guessing China

Not for Smith & Wesson, they buy injectable material, do the metal injection molding themselves and then send it to their own heat treat facility for hardening.

[Moped]

The finest 1911s are made in Arkansas

but no matter where your 1911 is made it should have been made

on US soil by US hands...

That may be, but I'll hang onto an extra $2000 and use that for some other things like life and shoot my Springfield Loaded all day long. I've hand it for 6 years, and the guy I bought it from had it for 2 years prior to that, and it has been rock solid for both us. At some point the cost out weights the benefit. I believe this to be true on high end pistols and just about every other thing in life.

[nightrunner]

I wonder where the MIM comes from......Im guessing China

Mexico. What do you think MIM means? It really means Made In Mexico.

[graycrait]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_injection_molding

Apparently MIM was invented and refined in the USA.

I hope you all scrolled to the end of this link to see the guy's picture of his 1911s - I think I counted 61 or so: http://www.1911addic...1911-addicts...

[Murgatroy]

http://en.wikipedia....jection_molding

Apparently MIM was invented and refined in the USA.

I hope you all scrolled to the end of this link to see the guy's picture of his 1911s - I think I counted 61 or so: http://www.1911addic...1911-addicts...

Bac's collection is no joke. And that is just his 1911s. He also has wheel guns and some other rare pistols.

[TMF]

TMF 18B: I didn't think I was being too subtle:) Just joking around, fishing for a bite;) Kimbers are fine. I have friends who own them.

Haha, no worries, I figured I'd bite and acknowledge it. As much as I love my Kimber, I does still chap me that the finish on the frame chips if I so much as look at it. I have to take my ring off to shoot it as to not mar it up; not something I enjoy on a pistol I dropped some big bank on. I'm guessing 'cause I got one with an aluminum frame. The plastic mainspring housing is also BS, but I got over that when I replaced it with a beveled magwell. Once I get it on the range though, all is forgiven.

[Moped]

I know Dan Wesson is 100% US made with no MIM parts. Here is a pretty decent 1911 guide:

http://gunstuff-jd.b...de-revised.html

WOW! What a ton of info on this site! Thanks for the link and special thanks to Vamarine for putting it together!!! It's bookmarked now!

If I were to buy a a new 1911a1, I would first look at RIA. I've heard so much good about them, I'd love to buy one and see what all the fuss is about. Alas with three kids, in today's economy, that's probably not going to happen.

[Guest sL1k]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_injection_molding

Apparently MIM was invented and refined in the USA.

I hope you all scrolled to the end of this link to see the guy's picture of his 1911s - I think I counted 61 or so: http://www.1911addic...1911-addicts...

I ran across that picture through Google images one day and saved it as a desktop, I was always wondering the source of it!

Want to know what my worst nightmare is that would wake me up in the dead of night screaming ? Having all of those with only one 7 round magazine and a 1 box of ammo. Lol

[TMF]

I ran across that picture through Google images one day and saved it as a desktop, I was always wondering the source of it!

Want to know what my worst nightmare is that would wake me up in the dead of night screaming ? Having all of those with only one 7 round magazine and a 1 box of ammo. Lol

What would keep me awake is the thought of a fire destroying a 1911 collection worth around 60K. Even if he is insured, some of that stuff is not so easily replaceable.

[Guest Vamarine]

WOW! What a ton of info on this site! Thanks for the link and special thanks to Vamarine for putting it together!!! It's bookmarked now!

If I were to buy a a new 1911a1, I would first look at RIA. I've heard so much good about them, I'd love to buy one and see what all the fuss is about. Alas with three kids, in today's economy, that's probably not going to happen.

You're welcome, that thing has been a chore trying to keep it up to date but it's turned out to be a pretty good reference.

I think I need a Rock Island Tactical in 9mm, if Ruger were to come out with one (9mm), I think I'd be out of excuses to get a 9mm 1911. That's one maker that if some long term use yeilds good results will have one heck of a pistol on their hands.

What would keep me awake is the thought of a fire destroying a 1911 collection worth around 60K. Even if he is insured, some of that stuff is not so easily replaceable.

All I know is that I want his Unertl

[DevJames]

The STI Spartan is made by Armscor for them.

There's a few Turkish companies making 1911's as well. I THINK the Magnum Research 1911 is one of these.

The Iver Johnson pistols may be Turkish as well.

I love me some Rock Islands though. They're well built for the price and backed by fantastic customer service out of Nevada.