4473 Has Changed, Hispanic/Latino No Longer a Race

[Oh Shoot]

Very odd, saw this on another forum, not sure what the intent really is here, and haven't done any reading on it yet.

Previous 4473:

10. Race (Ethnicity) (Check one or more boxes)

American Indian or Alaska Native

Black or African American

Hispanic or Latino

Asian

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander

White

===================================

New 4473:

Separate sections:

10a: Ethnicity

Hispanic or Latino

Not Hispanic or Latino

10b: Race (check one or more boxes)

American Indian or Alaska Native

Black or African American

Asian

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander

White

==================

So, EVERYone must answer the Hispanic Latino section, and it's no longer a "race" like the others, but an "ethnicity"?

And so you can now be:

American Indian or Alaska Native Hispanic/Latino

or Black or African American Hispanic/Latino

or Asian Hispanic/Latino

or Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander Hispanic/Latino

or now, finally, just like George Zimmerman was christened in the press, a White Hispanic/Latino!

- OS

edit: new form same place (and same name, watch for overwriting in same download location if you already have it) at:

http://www.atf.gov/f...tf-f-4473-1.pdf

This one is cut/copy protected, even if you use save a copy. It's also somehow 72k versus the previous 5483K, even though both are same 6 pages, diff in print rez perhaps, dunno.

Edited July 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest bkelm18]

Odd.

[TMF]

I guess asking "are you a Mexeecan or a Mexeecan't?" would get the libs fired up. Seriously though, I still don't understand why there is anything involving race or ethnicity on these forms. If it doesn't have anything to do with transferring the firearm it shouldn't be on there. I don't believe these questions involving race have anything to do with identifying the individual later on, especially since your SSN is on there.

[enfield]

Wow, and they've narrowed down the race choices to only 5, when there are only 3 races.

What do it mean?

[Garufa]

....especially since your SSN is on there.

That is only on there if you choose to put it there. It's optional.

[sigmtnman]

Yet still no entry for Ron Paul supporter...

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am sure it has something to do with what is going on in Mexico and their accusations of the guns being brought in from the US. I am sure someone somewhere is going to use the change to watch or profile gun purchases.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

I am sure it has something to do with what is going on in Mexico and their accusations of the guns being brought in from the US. I am sure someone somewhere is going to use the change to watch or profile gun purchases.

Dolomite

Logical assumption, and agree it is at least part of the intent. I just sure don't quite get how the difference in reporting yourself as an Ethnicity rather than a Race makes any diff as to the overall database?

I assume that all folks of Mexican or indeed any Central/South American descent (and I suppose Spain/ Portugal) will just check 10a but nothing in 10b. Matter of fact, I can't hardly understand anyone checking anything in 10b also checking Hispanic/Latino in 10a at all, which the thing seems to allow?

Maybe it's unreasonable to expect any valid logic from it all though, like most of BATF itself.

- OS

Edited July 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[zapfbroad]

Just check like 3 or 4 of em & if asked "you don't know me punta, I got flavor cornbread".

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[Smith]

I personally think its a broad attempt to keep "whites" a majority in the racial/political war. Since "whites" are nearly a minority now it makes it hard for "blacks" and other "minority" groups to keep up the call for more benefits to offset their minority status. Just a thought.

[mikegideon]

Is it still Mexican carry if you carry your pistol in your wasteband, or did they change that too?

[Garufa]

I personally think its a broad attempt to keep "whites" a majority in the racial/political war. Since "whites" are nearly a minority now it makes it hard for "blacks" and other "minority" groups to keep up the call for more benefits to offset their minority status. Just a thought.

That's quite a stretch.

[Smith]

That's quite a stretch.

Didn't say it was the best thought

Mike, it is no longer Mexican carry. It is now White Hispanic Carry.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's quite a stretch.

Considering how unemployment numbers are reported, not much of a stretch to me. Change the variables

and you have different set of data to play with. Also makes sense about the Mexicans. There is some

bizarre political reason for it.

In this "post racial", "post modern" society only rainbows and unicorns matter anyway.

[mikegideon]

Didn't say it was the best thought

Mike, it is no longer Mexican carry. It is now White Hispanic Carry.

Aw !

[Garufa]

Considering how unemployment numbers are reported, not much of a stretch to me. Change the variables

and you have different set of data to play with. Also makes sense about the Mexicans. There is some

bizarre political reason for it.

In this "post racial", "post modern" society only rainbows and unicorns matter anyway.

Smith opined it is an attempt to keep whitey in the majority. That I find unbelievable under the current administration and overall social climate.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I understand. You know he does have to keep the strife up between the classes to keep tearing us apart. He

has to do it in order to keep our eyes away from his hands. Shifty mutt, he is. Deception is the hallmark of this

administration. Most people are still in denial about what he is up to.

[Oh Shoot]

Considering how unemployment numbers are reported, not much of a stretch to me. ..

Well, first you need to know if other federal forms are reflecting whatever this is, or is ONLY about gun sales?

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yet still no entry for Ron Paul supporter...

Funny!

Am not saying the new form makes any more or less sense than the old, but it isn't really THAT oxymoronic. Maybe. Dunno of the percentages of races immigrants or illegal aliens from south of the border. Maybe some races are more likely to come here than others. But there are lots of asians in S. America and lately several asian folk down there holding high political office. So maybe if a spanish- or portugese-speaking multi-generation S. American asian comes to the USA he really is a hispanic asian?

Lots of "relatively pure bred" european stock in mehico, central and south america. A fourth-generation portugese-speaking German who moved to the usa most likely hispanic white?

Lots of black slaves were imported into those regions after they killed off too many amerinds, so a spanish-speaking black person from south of the border or some of the old spanish isle colonies validly hispanic black?

In mehico you have some relatively-pure-blood europeans, some relatively-pure-blood amerinds, and lots of various mix between the two. I suppose the same in other south of the border nations. If a fella was a mix what would he check? Several boxes as suggested by zapfbroad?

And why only hispanic (which presumably would also apply to portugese)? A cajun would need to check a "Franco" box along with a variable assortment of white, indian and black boxes.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Smith]

Smith opined it is an attempt to keep whitey in the majority. That I find unbelievable under the current administration and overall social climate.

Actually the entire Democrat/Race Card agenda is driven by being "minority" and thus needing the Big Tent to level the playing field. If you take away the victim/minority issue they have nothing. They have everything to loose by being the majority. Their entire agenda/ideology is driven by being the repressed minority despite the truth of reality.

Well, first you need to know if other federal forms are reflecting whatever this is, or is ONLY about gun sales?

- OS

Well, these form go no where and are not reported but I imagine it will be the standard race/ethnicity question on future federal documents that DO count the statistics. I have a hard time believing this is the only form they have applied this to.

[wjh2657]

Most Mexicans are more American Indian than Spanish. This leads me to believe that ethnicity in this case simply means whether your primary language is Spanish or English. Language is a factor in ethnicity but it isn't the only factor. Given this definition, a U.S. born citizen of Mexican descent is actually an American Indian, not-Latino or Hispanic.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Most Mexicans are more American Indian than Spanish. This leads me to believe that ethnicity in this case simply means whether your primary language is Spanish or English. Language is a factor in ethnicity but it isn't the only factor. Given this definition, a U.S. born citizen of Mexican descent is actually an American Indian, not-Latino or Hispanic.

If they want to get scientific about it, perhaps replace the race checkboxes with PERCENT text boxes?

In the old days and even today by popular perception, even if a person was only 1/16th black or whatever they would be considered black but that doesn't make much sense. If a fella was 1/16 amerind and 15/16 european white, not many would consider the person indian? If a fella was 1/16 asian and 15/16 white, most folks would consider him white? Or if a fella was 1/16 white and 15/16 asian it would be laughable to consider him white?

Then again, if Elizabeth Warren fills out a 4473 to buy a gun then obviously she would check the indian box because she has high cheekbones!

In reality hardly anybody knows with vast certainty any trace races that might be mixed in from somewhere in the past. But maybe percentage checkboxes would be better than checking multiple boxes? Then again, many people are weak on math so what would you do if the percentages add up to more or less than 100?

[Oh Shoot]

....

Well, these form go no where and are not reported but I imagine it will be the standard race/ethnicity question on future federal documents that DO count the statistics. I have a hard time believing this is the only form they have applied this to.

That probably is the bottom line. You can't build a data base on a field that's not reported, even if the BATF doesn't destroy the records daily like they're, you know, supposed to and all. Probably just a result of a bigger revision on federal form stuff, most of which is data based and cross referenced to death.

- OS

[TMF]

Still not understanding how race/ethnicity has anything to do with transferring a firearm.

[DWARREN123]

Actually only one race of people on this rock, HUMAN!