Tn State Troopers went from .40 to .357: Why ?

[Tenifer17]

Does anyone here know why Tn State Troopers went from the .40S&W rd to the .357SIG round ? I know they stayed with Glock but just wondered why they switched?

[jcoosi]

Cause DHS bought all the .40 ammo up

[gjohnsoniv]

More reliable feeding?

[nightrunner]

Its not new, been like that for a while. But i believe they switched due to the superior penetration on vehicles of the .357sig round

[daddyo]

Don't blame them. Given the choice, I'd go with .357 Sig.

[RobertNashville]

That change happened at least a few yeas ago and I suspect their reasons were the similar to why I carry 357 Sig; I think it's simply a better round.

Dick Metcalf said it this way...

Dick Metcalf states: "The 357 Sig is the best 9mm cartridge made. It shoots like a 357 Magnum, recoils like a 9mm Luger, operates more reliably than a 40 S&W, requires no significant new engineering or tool-up costs to produce, and there are already eight high-performance, new-tech, premium-brand commercial ammo loads on the market (not to mention all the handloading tools and components...)."

Edited July 11, 2012 by RobertNashville

[MacGyver]

They had to spend money on something.

[Smith]

Troopers shoot across further distances than in an urban enviroment, pentration THORUGH barriers such as glass and metal is much better with less deflection, and it's a better round in most every way. Regardless of what cops will tell you, Metro depts went with a .40 becasue of fear of over penatration with a 9mm projectile in a close range urban enviroment.

In a congested urban enviroment the .40 makes sense in a collateral damage context. For Troopers, where that is not so much a factor, it is better for them to have a round that will get through car barriers that they have to shoot through over greter distances.

[zybysco]

They wanted to spend more money on ammo. That is my vote at least.

[TNWNGR]

The THP did extensive accuracy and penatration testing with the 357 SiG Glock combination and it measured up very well. I know that they really did their homework on the changeover and spent a lot of time testing the gun and different round's. What I don't know though was how much influence the bottle neck round had in the mix. After all it's kind of a rehash of the 38 Super - 357 magnum where the .355 round at higher velocity was in demand.

[lshel]

The 357 Sig has more penetration, stopping power and better accuracy than the 40 S&W. Also shape of cartridge gives more reliable feeding.

[Will Carry]

The 357 Sig has more penetration, stopping power and better accuracy than the 40 S&W. Also shape of cartridge gives more reliable feeding.

What he said.......

[hipower]

What he said.......

And they make a heckofa flame show at night!

[TN-popo]

Regardless of what cops will tell you, Metro depts went with a .40 becasue of fear of over penatration with a 9mm projectile in a close range urban enviroment.

Why? Because we don't know what we're talking about?

9mm overpenetration had nothing to do with it. After the infamous 1986 FBI shootout, there was a perceived need for something more than 9mm, but less than .45acp.

Right or wrong, the performance of the 9mm became an issue and led to deeper penetrating 9mms and the adoption, and developement, of other calibers.

To the OP, while I have not spoken with the THP decision makers, those with that agency who I have talked with have mentioned greater barrier penetration as being a factor.

The .357SIG has worked very well for them.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TN-popo

[Smith]

Why? Because we don't know what we're talking about?

9mm overpenetration had nothing to do with it. Why do you think the 147gr 9mm had so much developement after the infamous 1986 FBI shootout?

Right or wrong, the underpenetration of the 9mm became an issue and led to deeper penetrating 9mms and the adoption, and developement, of other calibers.

As someone who is involved with the selection of my agency's issued rounds (and those rounds have been used in several Officer Involved Shootings), I have more than a passing interest in the subject.

Quite simply, you're wrong.

To the OP, while I have not spoken with the THP decision makers, those with that agency who I have talked with have mentioned greater barrier penetration as being a factor.

The .357SIG has worked very well for them.

The '86 shootings subjectively and inaccurately based 9mm performance assumptions on .38 spl and the 147g is notorious for under penetrating. Of the eight FBI agents only 3 had 9mm's and on of those was inoperable.They were using the .45 principle and it doesn't work in the 9mm. The 9mm works on velocity, which is why most 9mm defensive loads are based off a 115g or the better balance 124g +p or +p+. If the available data was that conclusive, there wouldn't be the ever evolving ideology and studies of the FBI. They have changed from mass, to velocity, to mass/velocity, to penetration, to shot placement, .... there will be some other study shortly.

Not saying your wrong per se, Just that there is a lot more to the issue than one study or one departments evaluations. PD are not known for necessarily making pure performance choices.

[Murgatroy]

Jackson MS PD issues 9mm in 147gr +P+.

Just to throw that out there.

Plus the THP switched to .357 SIG several years ago. I have an acquaintance who was indifferent about it other than he got to buy his .40 back.

[DaveTN]

Whenever you have a situation like the Miami shootout or the Bank of America shootout; you will have controversy. In both cases the bad guys had superior fire power and were playing offense not defense (state of mind). Had the LAPD had .308 rifles the shootout would have been much shorter, had they had 50 Cal Barrett’s it would have been over in two rounds; but they didn’t.

Why would anyone think that THP buying .357 Sigs means they are a better round? There are Police agency’s using 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, and .357SIG. “Someone†thought all of those rounds would be the best for the application they have; that doesn’t mean they were right.

Penetration? I want my handguns round expelling all of its energy in the body; not passing through it. Since I can’t fit 15 rounds of .45ACP or .357Mag in a duty size gun; my choice would be .40S&W. If I want barrier penetration I would pull my .308 AR out of the rifle rack in the squad and use it; that’s barrier penetration.

If 5 gang bangin’ thugs open fire on you on the street with .380’s; you are going to die on the street full of .380 holes regardless of what caliber gun you are carrying. Superior firepower. You can talk all you want about shot placement but in many circumstances you would never get the chance or have the time to place an exact shot.

Everything is application driven…. Nothing has changed.

You are picking the gun and the round that someday may be called upon to save your life or the life of a family member. It is your responsibility to make the right decision; because the rest of us are only going to read about the aftermath.

[Smith]

Agreed Dave. They all have a place, some are better for different applications.

[RED333]

I dont know.

[dlm37015]

i my prior life i carried every day nearly i carried a sig p220 you can have all the new wizz bang stuff you want but i will stick to a 45 acp

[TLRMADE]

I like my....

Just got a fresh coat of paint on it....

Just kidding....

[Patton]

THP actually had a officer involved shooting end with less than desirable results. It took less than a year to switch the entire agency over after they made the decision.

I think they were really looking back to the 357mag performance of there old Model 19's and GP 100's. I'm not agreeing with the decision but I believe 357sig is very capable. Can a super hot 9mm or a 40SW do the same thing? I think it can. The Secret Service tested the 357Sig extensively and felt it really was a armor/barrier penetrator. Police are seeing more and more armor wearing criminals. The Chattanooga Police Dept learned how ineffective 45acp is to even level II body armor in April 2011. I don't know if 357sig would have made a difference but it was brought up that the body armor is so much more common to find amongst criminals.

[Ramjo]

Its not new, been like that for a while. But i believe they switched due to the superior penetration on vehicles of the .357sig round

Hell, they should just carry a .44 if penetration is what they are worried about...knock out those engine blocks haha.

[Guest Big-A]

I heard the Texas highway patrol video had a big influence in 357 sig rd swap . The video where the Rookie was on patrol with a senior officer. A guy hung out the side of a big rig with an sks and fired a few rds. Senior officer filled the cab with 45 rds but the guy hangs back out the rig again and fires a few more rds with the sks and goes back into the truck. Then the rookie fires a few rds of 357 sig rds and it takes the guy out.

[JKGlock17]

my cousin is a THP and he told me 2 years ago that they were phasing out the 357 and going too the 40, at least that is what i remember i could be totally backwards