UN Small Arms Treaty

[ProjectDexter]

We need REAL leaders. If that happens in political office the way it is set-up now, so be it. If not, we need someone who will stand together with the people and claim that is enough is enough. Until that day happens, and we as the people stand up in unity, peaceably or not, we are NOT going to get our country back. In God we trust, Lord help us now.

EDIT: I know infowars.com can be a subject of great debate because some people feel that site/people are extreme, but the information thats being posted up there in the past couple of days/weeks is greatly disturbing.

Edited July 17, 2012 by ProjectDexter

[DaveTN]

A treaty can’t trump the 2^nd amendment. Neither the government nor the U.N. can makes us give up our arms, and no one would be able to enforce it if they tried.

What it could do though is stop the importing or exporting of firearms. No more Glocks or XD’s coming into the country and no more Smith & Wesson’s and Rugers going out.

[ProjectDexter]

A treaty can’t trump the 2^nd amendment. Neither the government nor the U.N. can makes us give up our arms, and no one would be able to enforce it if they tried.

What it could do though is stop the importing or exporting of firearms. No more Glocks or XD’s coming into the country and no more Smith & Wesson’s and Rugers going out.

The govt can trump the constitution (and does) anytime that it wants. If you look at what happened with Katrina, this has already been tested. Seize all firearms and kill anyone who resists, through chaos they will gain more control. Most likely in the name of "our protection".

[Clod Stomper]

Have a question about all this that perhaps someone here could answer. As i understand it the Bill of Rights isn't law per se but an enumeration of our God given rights. I think some people would say they're human rights. So, these aren't conferred by the government only recognized by it that all citizens have them. Since the 2A is a right rather than privilege how is this treaty, which would be on par w/ law if ratified, nullify it? How can you write a law or ratify a treaty that could remove a right? Sorry to be thick here but its not making a bit of sense to me. Its like saying a dogs not a dog b/c I say so. In fact it really is a dog and always will be a dog despite trying to redefine it to be something else. That line of thinking is juvenile at best.

You are, of course, correct. However, rights can be usurped and infringed by governments. As they have been throughout history. Our foundation, the Constitution, was the first in history (that I know of) to enumerate and guarantee the rights of the individual over the government. Of course that doesn't sit well with those who lust for power. There are tyrants throughout recorded history who only want power over others. They will always find their way to positions of authority.

Our Constitution was written to keep those very tyrants in check. But only if those in power consider themselves constrained by law. Why was the Second Amendment written? To guarantee that even if tyrants hold power that they cannot infringe upon the rights of the individual. It works. As long as a majority of citizens recognize that reason....

Unfortunately, too many have been conditioned to believe that anyone who recognizes that right must be a "kook". Or an "anti-government extremist". And that the government can do anything it wants, simply because it IS the government. So they don't even question when that gov breaks the very law (the Constitution) that created it.

I know people, even in my own family, that think a firearm can be "banned" just because it isn't useful for hunting. The recognition of our God-given (or natural) rights has been bred out of us over the past century. Maybe it was never there. I do remember reading that the American Revolution was actively fought by only about 3% of the population. And only 10% were active supporters. But we won anyway. Don't forget, those patriots were "enemies of the state" at the time. The "kooks" and "anti-government extremists" of their day.

Whew, I bet I just got the attention of some .gov agency. I better go to bed.

Will

Edit: Oops, I forgot to add my tinfoil hat smiley. Thanks gjohnson for doing that for me.

Come get me you gubmint goons!

Edited July 18, 2012 by Clod Stomper

[gjohnsoniv]

Whew, I bet I just got the attention of some .gov agency. I better go to bed.

Will

[Guest ThePunisher]

Whew, I bet I just got the attention of some .gov agency. I better go to bed.

Will

Sleep lightly just in case so you can hear all their footsteps sneaking up to your house. Also, leave a light on.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ThePunisher

[ProjectDexter]

http://www.infowars.com/troops-ordered-to-kill-all-americans-who-do-not-turn-in-guns/

8:30 on the video is mind blowing.

[DaveTN]

The govt can trump the constitution (and does) anytime that it wants. If you look at what happened with Katrina, this has already been tested. Seize all firearms and kill anyone who resists, through chaos they will gain more control. Most likely in the name of "our protection".

http://www.infowars....t-turn-in-guns/

8:30 on the video is mind blowing.

Yes of course, Katrina is always the first thing brought up in any gun seizure question. Katrina was a small isolated incident. Let’s look at what happened after Katrina. Many states, Tennessee included, passed laws addressing gun control during an emergency.

It was made clear to the Military and Civilian Law Enforcement that there isn’t going to be any confiscation of guns. It would be an unlawful order and most aren’t going to be involved in that.

I know I shouldn’t waste my time watching an Alex Jones video, but I couldn’t help but click on it to see what you are talking about. Before anyone fast forwards to the video, watch the first part to understand that the “government document†this guy is ranting about is 50 years old.

The video is just the same Katrina video we have seen time after time.

As the caller said himself, he was ignorant, he didn’t know the law. Now the law has been made clear and if anyone tried this it would only take a few soldiers or cops to refuse the order to result is chaos in the ranks.

Kill anyone who resists? Who was killed?

[TMF]

Yes of course, Katrina is always the first thing brought up in any gun seizure question. Katrina was a small isolated incident. Let’s look at what happened after Katrina. Many states, Tennessee included, passed laws addressing gun control during an emergency.

It was made clear to the Military and Civilian Law Enforcement that there isn’t going to be any confiscation of guns. It would be an unlawful order and most aren’t going to be involved in that.

I know I shouldn’t waste my time watching an Alex Jones video, but I couldn’t help but click on it to see what you are talking about. Before anyone fast forwards to the video, watch the first part to understand that the “government document†this guy is ranting about is 50 years old.

The video is just the same Katrina video we have seen time after time.

As the caller said himself, he was ignorant, he didn’t know the law. Now the law has been made clear and if anyone tried this it would only take a few soldiers or cops to refuse the order to result is chaos in the ranks.

Kill anyone who resists? Who was killed?

The counter example would be post-Hurricane Andrew S. Florida in the area of Homestead. Having experienced Andrew (luckily living on the W. coast of Florida at the time) I would say that it was one of the most powerful storms of last century to make landfall and certainly one of the largest in size. Homestead was destroyed in every sense of the word. Some folks decided not to leave after the destruction, still living in half destroyed homes or (in the case of family friends) borrowing a camper and parking it in their drive way. Even with the presence of National Guard, there wasn't nearly enough security to deal with looters (many of whom came from outside the destruction area). There were untold numbers of looters and criminals shot down there during the months that followed. I recall seeing on the news a message spray painted on the side of a home which read "Looters welcome, I need more target practice." As far as I know there were no residents that were ever charged with any crime related to the killing of looters. Law Enforcement and Nat'l Guard didn't care. In fact, talking to Guard guys who were down there they were scared patrolling on foot at night for fear of being mistaken for looters.

[Clod Stomper]

Yes of course, Katrina is always the first thing brought up in any gun seizure question. Katrina was a small isolated incident. Let’s look at what happened after Katrina. Many states, Tennessee included, passed laws addressing gun control during an emergency.

It was made clear to the Military and Civilian Law Enforcement that there isn’t going to be any confiscation of guns. It would be an unlawful order and most aren’t going to be involved in that.

I know I shouldn’t waste my time watching an Alex Jones video, but I couldn’t help but click on it to see what you are talking about. Before anyone fast forwards to the video, watch the first part to understand that the “government document†this guy is ranting about is 50 years old.

The video is just the same Katrina video we have seen time after time.

As the caller said himself, he was ignorant, he didn’t know the law. Now the law has been made clear and if anyone tried this it would only take a few soldiers or cops to refuse the order to result is chaos in the ranks.

Kill anyone who resists? Who was killed?

Yes, I don't believe the same thing would happen, or would have happened in the same situation, except in a place like NO. But I can think of many places where it would almost certainly happen again. Think Los Angeles, Chicago, NYC, D.C.

The caller said he was a gung-ho 21 yo. Guess what, there will always be a new crop of youngsters who will be just as ignorant of the law. It most likely won't happen here, or FL, or TX, etc., but I don't believe for a second that it wouldn't happen again somewhere.

I don't know if anyone was killed. Probably nobody was, or we'd know about it. But what would have happened if someone had resisted those unlawful entries with force?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Clod Stomper

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

[wjh2657]

"Your Senators and Congressmen may or may not see your emails, but they can’t ignore bundles of mail. "

Sending emails to Senators and Congresssmen is an exercise in futility. Yes, they can ignore carloads of email. In most districts they are running unopposed, if they just vote for themselves they have the majority of votes. You will vote for the party's selection if you vote. Until we start identifying ourselves as Americans and not lackies of the two political parties, you do not have anybody at the receiving end of that email that cares. The Senators and the Congressman/women will vote as their wealthy "patrons" tell them to.

The treaty is so much hot air, the UN is in no position to enforce it. It won't get past the Senate or USSC anyways, it is unconstituional and would not be binding in the USA no matter who else signs it. Too many rich patrons of our government (the real bosses) would lose money on their arms sales if this got through. If you haven't figured anything else out, the "rich bitches" are no going to lose money!

[ProjectDexter]

Yes of course, Katrina is always the first thing brought up in any gun seizure question. Katrina was a small isolated incident. Let’s look at what happened after Katrina. Many states, Tennessee included, passed laws addressing gun control during an emergency.

It was made clear to the Military and Civilian Law Enforcement that there isn’t going to be any confiscation of guns. It would be an unlawful order and most aren’t going to be involved in that.

I know I shouldn’t waste my time watching an Alex Jones video, but I couldn’t help but click on it to see what you are talking about. Before anyone fast forwards to the video, watch the first part to understand that the “government document†this guy is ranting about is 50 years old.

The video is just the same Katrina video we have seen time after time.

As the caller said himself, he was ignorant, he didn’t know the law. Now the law has been made clear and if anyone tried this it would only take a few soldiers or cops to refuse the order to result is chaos in the ranks.

Kill anyone who resists? Who was killed?

Here's a few points, I don't expect you agree with anything that I say and iirc you are LEO, possibly retired so you've been around longer than I have. You are entitled to your own way of thinking according to our rights, for now.

Yes, Katrina was an isolated incident, that does not change the fact that the US MILITARY was ordered to disarm or kill anyone in the entire city/area of NO. Americans, trying to defend their homes, were beaten up, and disarmed. I don't know if anyone was killed, if there were it could have easily been swept under the rug.

The 2nd A is not a fair weather right, we don't have the right to bear arms only when things are peachy. I don't believe for a second that "new" laws are going to change anything if an incident like this happens again. When chaos strikes at home it's a free-for-all and people get scared, and it allows the people in power to come in and do whatever they want.

Can you say that in your life time you have not seen the constitution and what it stands for dwindling away? Is it not true that our rights are slowly being compressed, amended, and stripped with EVERY passing political campaign?

I hope that when this threat comes to a head and is a reality, and I believe it will come, that our trained LEO'S and Military personnel will see what's going on and stand with the people.

Here's a little conspiracy. The scheme is to make nothing black and white, it blurs the line between right and wrong and can make good people do bad things. Isolated incidents are slowly scaling larger and larger. What happens if the new Madrid fault line ruptures, it would affect multiple cities in multiple states. Chaos, looting, rioting, the nat'l guard would be called on again. Are they not going to stack right this time?

/rant.

[TMF]

Yes, Katrina was an isolated incident, that does not change the fact that the US MILITARY was ordered to disarm or kill anyone in the entire city/area of NO. Americans, trying to defend their homes, were beaten up, and disarmed. I don't know if anyone was killed, if there were it could have easily been swept under the rug.

Wrong.

The 82nd was deployed to New Orleans for humanitarian/rescue ops. In fact, air assets such as UH-60 helicopters that were rescuing people from rooftops had to suspend operations for nearly a day because looters were shooting at them. I'd be all about them shooting back, but they had not weapons on board! Kinda funny for a bunch of jack booted thugs bent on taking your guns away. I agree, they should have left those people on their roofs to starve, right?

If you can find me a picture of any federal troops carrying a weapon with ammo please let me know. From what I understand, although the 82nd deployed with rifles, they weren't issued any ammo. So I don't know where you get this idea that US Troops were "beaten up" by one of the most prestigious units in United States Military history. In fact, if you could please do me a favor and find the quote, any quote, from an officer in the 82nd telling his men they should "kill anyone in the entire city/area of NO" as you put it.

Your assertions are insulting to everyone that has put on a uniform. There is absolutely no facts supporting any troops engaging in the behavior you described. Your only proof that such things happened is the absence of proof. The same logic used to explain UFOs and aliens... "well of course we don't know.... it was a COVERUP!!!"

Here are some actual facts about what your federal troops were doing in New Orleans.

The division also acquired nearly 80 boats, said Command Sgt. Maj. Wolf Amacker, the division's senior enlisted man.

About 170 of the division's combat engineers were temporarily based on the Navy vessel USS Tortuga, berthed at Naval Support Activity New Orleans, planning and performing urban-search-and-rescue missions daily with other agencies using some of those boats.

Task Force Katrina Commander Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore also charged the paratroopers to straighten out the evacuation situations at Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, the New Orleans Convention Center and the Superdome, Caldwell said. In all, 3,600 of the division's paratroopers were deployed to New Orleans to participate in Task Force All-American.

Caldwell said the airport manager had just three staffers, and many of the 24 other agencies involved in disaster relief efforts in New Orleans were similarly short-staffed. The answer, the general noted, was to assign the division's staff organizations and equipment to the agencies that needed them.

The unit worked in tandem with state, local and other federal authorities to feed, process and transport evacuees to other accommodations. The division's soldiers have helped evacuate 6,000 New Orleans residents, Caldwell said.

As of Sept. 18, 82nd Division medical personnel had treated 1,352 people and given 2,047 immunizations, according to unit documents.

As of Sept. 19, 82nd Division military engineers had cleared 185 city blocks of debris, cleared 113 streets, and removed 218 trees, according to unit documents.

The division's paratroopers are trained to be flexible, Amacker said. They excel in combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, and also perform well during humanitarian missions.

The soldiers of the 82nd Airborne Division are expected "to have a high degree of mental agility and flexibility," Amacker said. "That's something we pride ourselves on a great deal," he added.

Caldwell said his division achieves success because "we really empower our junior leaders."

The division's soldiers are treated "with tremendous respect and dignity" and are held to extremely high standards, the general said.

Professionalism and discipline permeate the organization, so the division's soldiers strive to succeed at everything they do, Caldwell said.

Caldwell said his soldiers often tell him they're proud to help the stricken people of New Orleans. "They feel very honored they can help other Americans," the general said.

Here is a picture of one of those jack booted thugs bent on taking your freedom... oh gee, he doesn't even have ammo! I can't imagine why someone who hates his fellow countrymen so much that he would violate the Constitution he swore to uphold would then go to Iraq and give his life along with 6 members of his platoon in Samarra. I know, I know... everyone in a uniform is a mindless robot that just blindly follows orders from some evil man sitting in a room somewhere, twirling is comically long mustache.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stanleyneworleans.jpeg

Here is another.

http://www.katrinadestruction.com/images/v/hurricane/CSkdA-2005-09-09-090952-katrina-photos.html

[ProjectDexter]

Wrong.

The 82nd was deployed to New Orleans for humanitarian/rescue ops. In fact, air assets such as UH-60 helicopters that were rescuing people from rooftops had to suspend operations for nearly a day because looters were shooting at them. I'd be all about them shooting back, but they had not weapons on board! Kinda funny for a bunch of jack booted thugs bent on taking your guns away. I agree, they should have left those people on their roofs to starve, right?

If you can find me a picture of any federal troops carrying a weapon with ammo please let me know. From what I understand, although the 82nd deployed with rifles, they weren't issued any ammo. So I don't know where you get this idea that US Troops were "beaten up" by one of the most prestigious units in United States Military history. In fact, if you could please do me a favor and find the quote, any quote, from an officer in the 82nd telling his men they should "kill anyone in the entire city/area of NO" as you put it.

Your assertions are insulting to everyone that has put on a uniform. There is absolutely no facts supporting any troops engaging in the behavior you described. Your only proof that such things happened is the absence of proof. The same logic used to explain UFOs and aliens... "well of course we don't know.... it was a COVERUP!!!"

Here are some actual facts about what your federal troops were doing in New Orleans.

Here is a picture of one of those jack booted thugs bent on taking your freedom... oh gee, he doesn't even have ammo! I can't imagine why someone who hates his fellow countrymen so much that he would violate the Constitution he swore to uphold would then go to Iraq and give his life along with 6 members of his platoon in Samarra. I know, I know... everyone in a uniform is a mindless robot that just blindly follows orders from some evil man sitting in a room somewhere, twirling is comically long mustache.

http://en.wikipedia....neworleans.jpeg

Here is another.

http://www.katrinade...ina-photos.html

The OK Nat'l Guard was going door to door with their orders to disarm. They ran Night missions into neighborhoods and forced entry. You are in denial if you say different. Listen to the interviews and watch the video interview above.

[TMF]

The OK Nat'l Guard was going door to door with their orders to disarm. They ran Night missions into neighborhoods and forced entry. You are in denial if you say different. Listen to the interviews and watch the video interview above.

I'd rather watch MSNBC for several hours than watch another Infowars segment for even a couple of minutes. At least I can laugh at MSNBC. Infowars just raises my blood pressure. And I must be in denial. Give me a reliable source that isn't wearing a tinfoil hat.

[gjohnsoniv]

I have to agree with TMF on this. I had a friend in NO who was active at the time. According to him if they came to a house and were greeted with a shotgun they would just say "we're glad to see that you are defending yourself," and move on to the next house.

[Clod Stomper]

That is a good thing to hear. At least we can be pretty sure that it was civilian LE who were involved in the B&Es, assaults and thefts. Far be it from me to disparage our military undeservedly or our law-abiding LEOs.

[ProjectDexter]

That is a good thing to hear. At least we can be pretty sure that it was civilian LE who were involved in the B&Es, assaults and thefts. Far be it from me to disparage our military undeservedly or our law-abiding LEOs.

Or our law abiding citizens. This isn't about knocking our troops, or LEOs. It's about who's giving the orders that are completely unconstitutional, it goes to the top. That's what I have a problem with. This has nothing to do with our troops, or good people for that matter.

[DaveTN]

Here's a few points, I don't expect you agree with anything that I say and iirc you are LEO, possibly retired so you've been around longer than I have. You are entitled to your own way of thinking according to our rights, for now.

Yes, Katrina was an isolated incident, that does not change the fact that the US MILITARY was ordered to disarm or kill anyone in the entire city/area of NO. Americans, trying to defend their homes, were beaten up, and disarmed. I don't know if anyone was killed, if there were it could have easily been swept under the rug.

The 2nd A is not a fair weather right, we don't have the right to bear arms only when things are peachy. I don't believe for a second that "new" laws are going to change anything if an incident like this happens again. When chaos strikes at home it's a free-for-all and people get scared, and it allows the people in power to come in and do whatever they want.

Can you say that in your life time you have not seen the constitution and what it stands for dwindling away? Is it not true that our rights are slowly being compressed, amended, and stripped with EVERY passing political campaign?

I hope that when this threat comes to a head and is a reality, and I believe it will come, that our trained LEO'S and Military personnel will see what's going on and stand with the people.

Here's a little conspiracy. The scheme is to make nothing black and white, it blurs the line between right and wrong and can make good people do bad things. Isolated incidents are slowly scaling larger and larger. What happens if the new Madrid fault line ruptures, it would affect multiple cities in multiple states. Chaos, looting, rioting, the nat'l guard would be called on again. Are they not going to stack right this time?

/rant.

What do you think is going to happen? And why are the Police or the military going to be going around confiscating guns?

If New Madrid shifts they say it could me so violent that Memphis will be destroyed and the Mississippi will run backwards. Do you think some government agency is going to use that as a cover for gun confiscation? The New Madrid scenario would be so devastating that it would take all the resources of this country to help the people escape. Who do you think is going to be confiscating guns?

I watched a video of two black female New Orleans Police Officers looting a store. Can I start make general statements about Blacks, Women, or Cops?

The Mayor of NO and the Chief of Police made a mistake in Okaying gun confiscation; they admit that. Now several states (including ours) have addressed the gun issue directly. They also addressed the issue of gas station owners charging $10 a gallon for gas.

Do I think people in a disaster like Katrina on the scale of New Madrid will be trying to take your guns? You bet your azz I do, but don’t expect them to be in uniform; those folks will be too busy.

Oh and if we are going to have an intelligent discussion; you can’t post videos from Info wars or Alex Jones; they can’t be taken seriously.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

It sometimes is the messenger that takes the full force of the person in denial. I myself think that a person should be open to all possibilities these days considering the recent events concerning the disregard of our constitution in general by our POTUS.

I would also like to remind some of you that are set upon your belief of what is occurring to our country at this time to look back to history to see a very similar parallel. In the 1930's people were in denial of this little Austrian fellow and underestimated his ability to be a threat. His rise to complete power over the branches of the government of Germany was accomplished quite efficiently in the early parts of that decade. The chancellor ultimately got rid of the other branches of the German Republic's government and assumed all power. Today we have a similar thing occurring as well, our legislative branch is complacent or at best very incompetent in attempting to prevent our "Chancellor" from assuming complete control. He no longer approaches most of his political objectives through the branches of our traditional government. Instead he decrees such things as he wishes to be law through executive order to accomplish his intentions. I could site the examples here if you wish, but suffice it to say that he is using his executive authority to bully, threaten, and demean many businesses, groups, and other organizations that disagree with him. Would it be saying to much that maybe the reason for the lack of action by the congress has something to do with fear?

Our times our very different these days, I for one never imagined that I would live to see what has sadly become, so far, of our representative republic. Nothing to me is to be unexpected during these times.

[TMF]

We still have a Constitution and we still have voting rights and elections. No matter how bad it gets the people are still in control. If you don't like the direction this country is going, blame your neighbors not our politicians.

And yes, it is "the messenger" that gets the brunt of it from us "non-believers". Every month since I can remember there is always some crackpot theory about how Nazi Germany is going to happen here, or Y2K, mayan calendar, rapture, American dictatorship. There is a common denominator; it never happens and the messengers are always crackpots. The people who believe them are the ones that want to believe. Those that don't believe them recognize them as crackpots.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What's so crackpot about history repeating itself?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TMF]

What's so crackpot about history repeating itself?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Infowars.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

We still have a Constitution and we still have voting rights and elections. No matter how bad it gets the people are still in control. If you don't like the direction this country is going, blame your neighbors not our politicians.

And yes, it is "the messenger" that gets the brunt of it from us "non-believers". Every month since I can remember there is always some crackpot theory about how Nazi Germany is going to happen here, or Y2K, mayan calendar, rapture, American dictatorship. There is a common denominator; it never happens and the messengers are always crackpots. The people who believe them are the ones that want to believe. Those that don't believe them recognize them as crackpots.

If a person sees lightening strike 3 times and each time before it strikes he warns others of it and nothing happens to them, and then on the 4th lightening strike it kills someone, were his first three warnings false?