Posting Small Signs

[wcsc12]

So I go into bbandt on Kingston pike and I look at the door loosely and don't see a posting sign. I start walking and look down at the ground and at the bottom of the bloody door is a little red sign, that I had to actually go up to the door to make out the pistol in the gun buster sign, from your car it looks like a cigarette.

Glad I canceled my account with them a looonnngg time ago.

Edited July 9, 2012 by wcsc12

[RobertNashville]

I can't help but wonder why some businesses "post" at all when the sign is so small or posted in such an out of the way place that it's easy to not see at all or mistake it for something else??? One would think if they truly don't want HCP holders to carry in their business they would post properly with a sign big enough for people to see!

I don't know if postings like the one you describe are done because they are too stupid to do it properly or if it's because they aren't really opposed to legal carry but are trying to placate someone else (the property owner, non-carrying customers who "hate" guns so they want to appear to appease them, etc).

[Mdunntn]

Little tokyo on Chapman highway has a clear gun buster sign its invisible almost

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[monkeylizard]

Some Nashville libraries do the same thing. White half-dollar sized gunbuster on a clear sticker on the inside of a tinted door. Brilliant. It's easy to spot on the way out, but near impossible to see on the way in.

Regal theaters have a dime-sized gunbuster on the list of rules that's stuck behind tinted glass somewhere near the entrance doors at all their facilities.

Edited July 9, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Viracnis]

The next time I'm in Columbia I'll take a picture of the inside of the Shadybrook Cinema. In the lobby on a piece of tinted glass with the words facing inward (on the other side of the glass is a little vestibule with an ATM I think) is a bulleted list that reads something like:

* No Outside food or drink.

* Shirt and shoes required.

* For insurance purposes, no cell phones, guns or cameras.

Easily walked by when coming in one of the other 4 front doors if you don't look behind the ATM at the old faded RTA you'd miss it. I carried in there a few times before I noticed the sign and nobody said anything to me about it, so either my T-shirt did a better job of hiding my OWB 1911 than I thought or they don't really care. Even so, I don't carry there anymore - and prefer not to go there unless Thoroughbred 20 is my only other alternative.

Some people say it's a wink and a nod to the "gun crowd" when they post small signs or signs that don't meet the letter of the law. I think it's the opposite - I always feel like the owner is snickering behind his hand like Muttley, waiting to jump out and go "AH HA! I got ya! What, you didn't see the sign? Boo hoo, tell it to the judge."

- V

Edited July 11, 2012 by Viracnis

[wcsc12]

The next time I'm in Columbia I'll take a picture of the inside of the Shadybrook Cinema. In the lobby on a piece of tinted glass with the words facing inward (on the other side of the glass is a little vestibule with an ATM I think) is a bulleted list that reads something like:

* No Outside food or drink.

* Shirt and shoes required.

* For insurance purposes, no cell phones, guns or cameras.

Easily walked by when coming in one of the other 4 front doors if you don't look behind the ATM at the old faded RTA you'd miss it. I carried in there a few times before I noticed the sign and nobody said anything to me about it, so either my T-shirt did a better job of hiding my OWB 1911 than I thought or they don't really care. Even so, I don't carry there anymore - and prefer not to go there unless Thoroughbred 20 is my only other alternative.

Some people say it's a wink and a nod to the "gun crowd" when they post small signs or signs that don't meet the letter of the law. I think it's the opposite - I always feel like the owner is snickering behind his hand like Muttley, waiting to jump out and go "AH HA! I got ya! What, you didn't see the sign? Boo hoo, tell it to the judge."

- V

I agree with you. It's not a wink and a nod. A wink and a nod doesn't normally come with a misdemeanor charge.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

If I cant easily make it out on the way in I'm probably gonna end up carrying past it. I'm not looking to break the law, but I'm also not gonna spend 30 minutes scrutinizing the door of every establishment I walk into. If they want to post then they should do so legally & make it easily visible.....

[TMF]

I agree with you. It's not a wink and a nod. A wink and a nod doesn't normally come with a misdemeanor charge.

I just don't see that happening... mostly because it hasn't ever happened. Secondly, unless there is an officer on scene you won't be charged. Thirdly, if an officer was on scene it will probably go like this:

Officer: "Did you not see the sign when you came in here carrying?"

You: "No officer, it was out of the way and not clearly posted. Had I seen it I would have turned around and taken my business somewhere else."

Officer: "Okay, well you can't carry in here so you need to stow it out in your car or leave."

You: "Yes Sir, have a nice day."

Officer: "You too; nice pistol by the way. I've been looking to pick one up like that."

You: "Well check out TGO. I saw one for sale there the other day for a good price."

Officer: "Will do."

I don't even bother looking that hard when going into these businesses that have no less than 30 signs and announcements posted on their entry doors. Next time you go to a gas station just count how many signs they have on the doors as you enter. Should you really be expected to read and understand the equivalent of 20 pages of text when entering a business? If it isn't immediately noticable I ain't gonna notice it. When one of you can cite a case of a HCP holder getting busted for carrying past a sign that isn't clearly posted then maybe I'll look a little harder. Otherwise, I see it as a non-issue.

[RobertNashville]

I believe it's incumbent upon those who carry to abide by the wishes of the business who doesn't want firearms on the property nor do I ever want to give my money to such businesses.

At the same time, it's incumbent upon such businesses to make their wishes know meaning that if they aren't going to post IAW the statute they should at least post sings that are big enough to see and posted where they can be seen BEFORE you get inside the property.

[hornett22]

I figure if they can't post it where it's obvious,I'm not going to worry about it that much either. I'm not standing in front of every door I enter for 10 minutes looking for there stupid little signs and stickers.

[Guest Matt Pavo]

Tinted sliding doors do a good job of hiding inconspicuous signs. Ober Gatlinburg had a sign like this, and it took me until I was ~ 4 feet away for me to realize it was posted. Nevertheless, I can usually spot any sort of sign that is actually posted. What gets me is places like Rivergate mall where only the food court entrance is posted, leaving other main entrances out. I think we all do our best to avoid posted locations, but since most of us are concealed carriers there usually aren't any complaints in the event we miss an out of place sign :-)

[Guest bkelm18]

I just don't see that happening... mostly because it hasn't ever happened. Secondly, unless there is an officer on scene you won't be charged. Thirdly, if an officer was on scene it will probably go like this:

Officer: "Did you not see the sign when you came in here carrying?"

You: "No officer, it was out of the way and not clearly posted. Had I seen it I would have turned around and taken my business somewhere else."

Officer: "Okay, well you can't carry in here so you need to stow it out in your car or leave."

You: "Yes Sir, have a nice day."

Officer: "You too; nice pistol by the way. I've been looking to pick one up like that."

You: "Well check out TGO. I saw one for sale there the other day for a good price."

Officer: "Will do."

I don't even bother looking that hard when going into these businesses that have no less than 30 signs and announcements posted on their entry doors. Next time you go to a gas station just count how many signs they have on the doors as you enter. Should you really be expected to read and understand the equivalent of 20 pages of text when entering a business? If it isn't immediately noticable I ain't gonna notice it. When one of you can cite a case of a HCP holder getting busted for carrying past a sign that isn't clearly posted then maybe I'll look a little harder. Otherwise, I see it as a non-issue.

This. I think I've heard of one person charged for carrying past a sign, but I believe it was in conjunction with other charges.

[DaveTN]

I just don't see that happening... mostly because it hasn't ever happened.

I agree, and I don’t look hard either.

Carrying a gun is a crime in Tennessee so I don’t really blame the businesses trying to cover their azz. If the state ever decides to recognize the right to carry; these signs will then become a rights issue.

They will never see mine, so it will only be an issue if I have to pull it. At that point, signs are the least of my worries.

[RobertNashville]

I know charges are unlikely but whether easily visible or not, I always come down on the side of "if my firearm isn't welcome then you aren't welcome to my money"...I'll always go somewhere else unless there is simply no realistic choice and/or there are more important considerations.

[tnhawk]

I believe it's incumbent upon those who carry to abide by the wishes of the business who doesn't want firearms on the property nor do I ever want to give my money to such businesses.

At the same time, it's incumbent upon such businesses to make their wishes know meaning that if they aren't going to post IAW the statute they should at least post sings that are big enough to see and posted where they can be seen BEFORE you get inside the property.

If a business doesn't want wish me to carry on their property, they should place an easily visible sign to state that fact. If I see a sign I'll gladly take my money elsewhere.

[JReedEsq]

I just don't see that happening... mostly because it hasn't ever happened. Secondly, unless there is an officer on scene you won't be charged. Thirdly, if an officer was on scene it will probably go like this:

Officer: "Did you not see the sign when you came in here carrying?"

You: "No officer, it was out of the way and not clearly posted. Had I seen it I would have turned around and taken my business somewhere else."

Officer: "Okay, well you can't carry in here so you need to stow it out in your car or leave."

You: "Yes Sir, have a nice day."

Officer: "You too; nice pistol by the way. I've been looking to pick one up like that."

You: "Well check out TGO. I saw one for sale there the other day for a good price."

Officer: "Will do."

I don't even bother looking that hard when going into these businesses that have no less than 30 signs and announcements posted on their entry doors. Next time you go to a gas station just count how many signs they have on the doors as you enter. Should you really be expected to read and understand the equivalent of 20 pages of text when entering a business? If it isn't immediately noticable I ain't gonna notice it. When one of you can cite a case of a HCP holder getting busted for carrying past a sign that isn't clearly posted then maybe I'll look a little harder. Otherwise, I see it as a non-issue.

Maybe that's how it would go. However, your scenario assumes a few things: 1) the officer is reasonable; 2) HCPer is respectful and polite to the officer and business owner (ie.. no constitutuional law lectures) ; 3; Business owner or other patrons don't scream and make some kind of scene.

Edited July 17, 2012 by JReedEsq

[TMF]

Maybe that's how it would go. However, your scenario assumes a few things: 1) the officer is reasonable; 2) HCPer is respectful and polite to the officer and business owner (ie.. no constitutuional law lectures) ; 3; Business owner or other patrons don't scream and make some kind of scene.

True, it presupposes level heads on all sides, but I'm basing that off of the majority of LEO interactions. I was using that scenario more to demostrate that if caught carrying at an establishment that is not clearly posted there is a 99.999% chance that you will not have any legal problems for it. I'm basing that assumption on the fact that it hasn't happened yet and this law has been in place for a while.

Where I see someone getting busted is if the HCP holder decides to get pissy about it, which is also unlikely but possible. Using the story of the HCP holder in Las Vegas who was shot by police - he had been told that weapons were not allowed and then he argued with the assistant manager and didn't leave. If that happened in TN that would be trespassing and would likely get charged with carrying past a sign (if it was posted as well).

Either way, I'm not sweating it and no one else should. If I don't see the sign when I go in then it wasn't posted clearly enough.

[Volzfan]

I can't help but wonder why some businesses "post" at all when the sign is so small or posted in such an out of the way place that it's easy to not see at all or mistake it for something else??? One would think if they truly don't want HCP holders to carry in their business they would post properly with a sign big enough for people to see!

I don't know if postings like the one you describe are done because they are too stupid to do it properly or if it's because they aren't really opposed to legal carry but are trying to placate someone else (the property owner, non-carrying customers who "hate" guns so they want to appear to appease them, etc).

I believe if that were really the case that they would post something like a sign that simply said "No Guns" which is not a legal sign rather than the gunbusters sign.

[RobertNashville]

I believe if that were really the case that they would post something like a sign that simply said "No Guns" which is not a legal sign rather than the gunbusters sign.

That's logical but doesn't really answer my question...if they truly don't want firearms on their property why then put up a sign that is difficult to see?

[DMark]

Isn't it sort of odd that the action of a business can result in a misdemeanor charge for what is otherwise a legal action (HCP)?

Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a law that stated that the business would be charged with a misdemeanor if their gunbuster sign wasn't in clear view.

There is such a law - - - for the health inspection score.

[macville]

Isn't it sort of odd that the action of a business can result in a misdemeanor charge for what is otherwise a legal action (HCP)?

Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a law that stated that the business would be charged with a misdemeanor if their gunbuster sign wasn't in clear view.

There is such a law - - - for the health inspection score.

Which is why we need to get -1359 off the books-because it's unconstitutional according to the TN constitution.

[DMark]

Which is why we need to get -1359 off the books-because it's unconstitutional according to the TN constitution.

BINGO! We have a Winner.

Could not agree with you more.

[z90HD]

I dont want to hijack the post here but just a quick yes or no will answer my question. If you click on the following link

http://www.gunfreediningtennessee.org/levi-hanks-bar-and-grill you will see the flying fork in several places on the site. Now some of you may have seen the sticker im trying to describe but it simply says " A gun free dining area" with the picture of the flying fork in the middle.. So the question is, is this a legal posting? I was open carrying at the time and as I was seated the manager approached the table and simply asked if I had a permit to carry and if so could he see it. I politely showed him and he said everything was good. As I left I looked at the posted sticker he said they had and I can honestly say I have never seen one like this before. So legal or not?

[Mdunntn]

I saw one of those also I don't think it is legal.

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[Oh Shoot]

....So legal or not?

Well, it's certainly not statutorily compliant, but not "illegal" to put it up. That doesn't mean it absolutely couldn't cost you some significant bucks to prove you weren't guilty of violating the statute itself, though.

- OS

Edited July 26, 2012 by OhShoot