Progressive control for decades... Detroit is a wasteland

[MattCary]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18945787/2012/07/03/charlie-leduff-golfs-the-length-of-detroit?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7465460

Reporter plays a round of golf across Detroit, which looks like a third world country.

How long have the Dems run Detroit?

Why in the world do we keep electing these folks?

[greyofk]

I spent 12 years in Michigan. At north-eastern suburb of Detroit. I know the history.

There was a riot in 1967. The mayor of Detroit Jerome Cavanagh had some connections with the leaders of local ethnic criminal groups. He betrayed the citizens of Detroit. After a minor looting took place at 12th street shop, Cavanagh refused to pull the National guard to the city. It encouraged the looters. Later on president of the US Lyndon Johnson ordered National guard and 82nd Airborne into the city. And again, mayor of Detroit refused to authorise the soldiers to make arrests. The mob led by ethnic criminal gangs destroyed most of the business south of 8 mile road. The mobsters displaced most of West-European descendants from the city. Once a model city Detroit was irreversibly ruined. Neither hard working citizens not business returned.

I do not know how much the gang leaders profited of that riot. However they still rule the place. Not democrats

[Garufa]

Why in the world do we keep electing these folks?

Who is this "we" you speak of? Nobody around here votes in Michigan, much less Detroit, elections.

Thank the unions, republicans, democrats, ignorants, etc. for Detroit.

[Guest ThePunisher]

It's George W. Bush's fault.

[jtmaze]

One of the biggest reasons I got my HCP is for traveling around Detroit while visiting in-laws. I have always owned guns for hunting and home protection. Growing up in rural west TN I never felt the need to carry. After 1 trip to Detroit I got my HCP and carry almost everywhere. Now in the current economic times I won't even go to Jackson without carrying. Traveling around Detroit is like a third world country. Gps says take next left, you better look first, even when carrying.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest 6.8 AR]

He was a charismatic democrat, whatever that means.

[Guest uofmeet]

My family is from detroit. Some still live there.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I guess you think the gang leaders if they

ever chose to vote would be Republicans?

Michigan is decidedly a Democrat state and

Detroit is an old Democrat controlled waste

land. Been that way for years. Look at their

politics over the last 50 years and think about

how engrained their politics is. Not unlike

Chicago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveTN]

How long have the Dems run Detroit?

Why in the world do we keep electing these folks?

Detroit is a wasteland because Americans buy foreign made cars. I would like to blame that totally on the Dems, but I can’t make that leap.

Anywhere you don’t have jobs the people are going to vote for Democrats.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

DaveTN. It's been that way since way before the Japanese auto invasion. The only real difference is

that there are more slums mow and less union thugs. Overall makeup of the community is extremely

high unemployment, backing up what you say.

Detroit's problem in the jobless realm is not Japanese cars, it's effectively competing and winning against

other carmakers. They have been made obsolete due to that and ridiculous pensions and work rules.

Hard to compete when you're shackled by the UAW. The only reason GM is still in business is that

Obama finally gave the UAW ownership of them, and refilled the pension coffers with taxpayer contributions.

We'll see how long GM lasts. Wanna make any wagers?

[Guest ThePunisher]

A doctor looks for symptoms of an illness and makes a diagnosis, and then prescribes a medical solution to cure the illness. Democrats are just like quack doctors, and don't really know how to diagnose problems to economic and social ills that limit competiveness of a global economy. Two examples of snake doctor prescribing of economic and social ills of our country are the public schools, and the american auto industry controlled by democrats and unions. The health care industry is going be just like public schools and the auto industry, since it is controlled by Dumacrats.

As long as Obama and the Dumacrats run this country, expect to see America shortly looking like Detroit and third world countries. As long as America has a snake doctor as POTUS, expect quack remedies to America's economic and social ills.

Edited July 7, 2012 by ThePunisher

[DaveTN]

A doctor looks for symptoms of an illness and makes a diagnosis, and then prescribes a medical solution to cure the illness. Democrats are just like quack doctors, and don't really know how to diagnose problems to economic and social ills that limit competiveness of a global economy. Two examples of snake doctor prescribing of economic and social ills of our country are the public schools, and the american auto industry controlled by democrats and unions. The health care industry is going be just like public schools and the auto industry, since it is controlled by Dumacrats.

As long as Obama and the Dumacrats run this country, expect to see America shortly looking like Detroit and third world countries. As long as America has a snake doctor as POTUS, expect quack remedies to America's economic and social ills.

You are exactly right. But you can’t blame Obama or the government for that; that’s on us.

(What’s coming with healthcare you can blame on him; but not losing our manufacturing base and good jobs.)

[greyofk]

For nearly 100 years Automotive industry did not suffer from any government intervention. The troubles in Automotive are consequences of corporate decision making. Top executives base most decisions on their short term personal goals. They do not care of technical superiority of domestic cars.

Americans do not buy "foreign made cars". They buy the cars they like to drive means technically advanced cars. Germans and Japanese (under socialist governments) managed to build such cars.

After all the notion "domestic" and "import" are not straightforward. Ford Fusion is totally Mexican car while Honda Accord is domestic (made in Ohio)

Unions are evil. Big corporation are even more evil. They would destroy entire country for short term profits of greedy executives.

[Guest ThePunisher]

For nearly 100 years Automotive industry did not suffer from any government intervention. The troubles in Automotive are consequences of corporate decision making. Top executives base most decisions on their short term personal goals. They do not care of technical superiority of domestic cars.

Americans do not buy "foreign made cars". They buy the cars they like to drive means technically advanced cars. Germans and Japanese (under socialist governments) managed to build such cars.

After all the notion "domestic" and "import" are not straightforward. Ford Fusion is totally Mexican car while Honda Accord is domestic (made in Ohio)

Unions are evil. Big corporation are even more evil. They would destroy entire country for short term profits of greedy executives.

Sounds like another union man blaming the wealthy for America's problems. I see on Fox news clips showing union workers smoking pot and drinking beer on their breaks, and I wonder why every American made car I bought in the 70's, 80's were nothing more than pieces of junk. The democrats have been in bed with the unions for fifty years or longer, and the taxpayers had to foot the wasted money by Obama bailing out GM and Chrysler. Funny that Ford didn't accept taxpayers money. I would bet that the foreign workers in auto plants are not smoking pot and drinking beer on their breaks. Might be the reason they build superior autos.

[TMF]

Detroit is a wasteland because Americans buy foreign made cars. I would like to blame that totally on the Dems, but I can’t make that leap.

Anywhere you don’t have jobs the people are going to vote for Democrats.

My "American" truck was made in Mexico. My wife's "foreign" car I bought her was made in Alabama.

I have only owned "American" automobiles up until now. Between my wife and I we have owned 5 vehicles manufactured by US based auto companies. That trend ended a few years ago. I will never buy another GM or Chrysler vehicle in my life. I'd buy a Ford if they weren't so pricey, but family comes first. As much as I would like to support American based companies, if they aren't competitive then I am not going to buy it and find it silly that folks will still try to guilt their fellow Americans into buying into such lunacy.

Every employee of GM is responsible for that company bottoming out; from the ground floor all the way to the top. They've allowed the unions to make manufacturing so fiscally inefficient that they can't compete with foreign companies even though many manufacture right here in the US. Kinda funny how many of these plants are in the south and don't have the union influence of the "motor" state. My heart doesn't bleed for those people. They all took part in creating a situation that is hopeless. What is crazy is that Michiganders still chose to blame "fat cat" CEOs and Republicans for their own doing. They will continue to swallow the Democrat BS right to hell, and for that they deserve exactly what they get, which is going to be an entire state that looks like Detroit. Eff 'em.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TMF 18B

[LagerHead]

Detroit is a wasteland because Americans buy foreign made cars. I would like to blame that totally on the Dems, but I can’t make that leap.

Anywhere you don’t have jobs the people are going to vote for Democrats.

And Americans buy foreign made cars because American car companies have been peddling junk to us for better than 30 years. After a while you get tired of the repair bills and rather than taking pride in buying American made you begin to take pride in the fact that you own multiple cars with over 200,000 miles without a single major repair.

I have owned two Accords that both went over 200,000 miles, the second one approaching 400,000. I am now on my third Accord. My dad at one time had 4 Camrys, each with over 250,000 miles and all still running. The last American car I bought started falling apart around 50,000 miles, needed a complete transmission replacement before 75,000 miles. I emphasize LAST. Except for Ford, I will never again consider another American car but as stated before Fords are expensive. So I "settled" on a Toyota truck instead. Of course both my Toyota and Honda were made in America while many of their competitors are made in Canada and Mexico.

[Jonnin]

I will never understand why anyone high up in a corporation would sign an agreement that they could not fire their employees if said employees refused to work (strike) over their pay (which was negotiated at the time of hireing). Unions should be easy to handle... if they cause trouble, you fire all the workers. Plenty of people would love to have the job at the current pay if the current crop of people do not like the wages and want to quit. The problem lies 100% with the idiots that allow the unions to bully them into stupid agreements, and in some places, the idiots that elected idiots that give "rights" to the unions that infringe upon the rights of the employers. Its not actually the fault of the union: if some moron promised me a job where I could get whatever pay I demanded for doing however much work I feel like doing, I would take it too!

I cannot bring myself to care. The companies did it to themselves by agreeing to allow the unions to have authority inside their holdings. The people did it to themselves by voting in people who made stupid union enabling laws. It is totally self inflicted.

[Caster]

And Americans buy foreign made cars because American car companies have been peddling junk to us for better than 30 years. After a while you get tired of the repair bills and rather than taking pride in buying American made you begin to take pride in the fact that you own multiple cars with over 200,000 miles without a single major repair.

I have owned two Accords that both went over 200,000 miles, the second one approaching 400,000. I am now on my third Accord. My dad at one time had 4 Camrys, each with over 250,000 miles and all still running. The last American car I bought started falling apart around 50,000 miles, needed a complete transmission replacement before 75,000 miles. I emphasize LAST. Except for Ford, I will never again consider another American car but as stated before Fords are expensive. So I "settled" on a Toyota truck instead. Of course both my Toyota and Honda were made in America while many of their competitors are made in Canada and Mexico.

Absolutely!

I'm sorry, it's not fun to say it, but "Made in America" means nothing. Actually, It's starting to mean "garbage" or "Made by ignorant lazy workers who are only here for a 40 Hr paycheck and could care less." When asked why I drive a Toyota and wouldn't buy anything BUT a Toyota, Honda or Nissan I'm quick to say, "I'm tired of working on JUNK." I bought a Toyota so I could have a vehicle I DON'T have to work on all the time.

Used to be the big three was GM, Ford and Chrysler. Now the big three are Honda Nissan and Toyota. There's a reason that's true. Patriotism and pride is all fine and good but people are tired of buying crap.

[Caster]

I will never understand why anyone high up in a corporation would sign an agreement that they could not fire their employees if said employees refused to work (strike) over their pay (which was negotiated at the time of hireing). Unions should be easy to handle... if they cause trouble, you fire all the workers. Plenty of people would love to have the job at the current pay if the current crop of people do not like the wages and want to quit. The problem lies 100% with the idiots that allow the unions to bully them into stupid agreements, and in some places, the idiots that elected idiots that give "rights" to the unions that infringe upon the rights of the employers. Its not actually the fault of the union: if some moron promised me a job where I could get whatever pay I demanded for doing however much work I feel like doing, I would take it too!

I cannot bring myself to care. The companies did it to themselves by agreeing to allow the unions to have authority inside their holdings. The people did it to themselves by voting in people who made stupid union enabling laws. It is totally self inflicted.

Strikes go on for months sometimes. You could do as you say, fire all the lazy bums and hire a totally new work force. All positions would be filled in less than a week in this economy. You could have them trained and eagerly working in two or three. Also, the car companies wouldn't have to pay ridiculous retirement packages to the bunch of non deserving degenerates. The company could actually afford to pay the new work force a higher wage and STILL come out on top from not having to pull dead weight.

Why people in this country are deluded into thinking that because they manage to cling on to a job for a given amount of time, they are OWED something, is beyond me. The world owes you NOTHING. Where also does the delusion of what you've done in the past mean something today, come from? If a worker is not worth the money they make, kick them to the curb. It's not a soldier who give life or limb for ALL of us, to those, we owe, yes. The rest of the working world, earn your bread, every single day or STARVE. It's natural selection and survival of the fittest. Life here on earth has been bound to and by that law since the dawn of time. Where people get this entitled, better than that, high and mighty attitude from I'll never know.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Caster

[BigK]

You guys are awesome! I'm glad to see so few of us falling for the "support American car company" crap.

By the time I was old enough to drive, Japanese cars were widely known to be cheaper, better-built, and longer-lasting than American made vehicles. While Detroit was putting out the Citation, Omni, and Pinto...Japan was shipping over Sentras, Corollas, and Accords.

Fast-forward 30 years later, Detroit still doesn't get it! The Japanese and Koreans aren't smarter. They don't have any secret techniques we don't know about. They don't use materials that we can't get our hands on. They don't have any insight into consumers' minds that we don't have. Yet, this is the best Detroit can do?

The bailouts are going to make it worse! You think Detroit was mired in apathy, short-term greed, and over-reliance on the government before? Wait til the next time they're in a pinch. The taxpayers will be expected to bail them out again now that there's a precedence.

Edited July 11, 2012 by BigK

[Jonnin]

The biggest gripe I have with the bailouts is it is a monkey wrench in the stock market. Can I now invest in GM whenever it is low, because I now KNOW that the company will never go bankrupt because it will be bailed out?? What about other companies, can I know that microsoft or apple will be bailed out if they mess up big? Or joe-bloe's nerdbook website company, will big government save that one too, or is it still a high risk / big payout investment? No one knows, it just a random act of stupidity that cannot be predicted nor bet against. Well, its not random really.... we know that only unionized businesses will get the money, but of those, which ones and at what times???? A pox on all of em, though I did score pretty big with some $2 ford stock

[TMF]

You guys are awesome! I'm glad to see so few of us falling for the "support American car company" crap.

By the time I was old enough to drive, Japanese cars were widely known to be cheaper, better-built, and longer-lasting than American made vehicles. While Detroit was putting out the Citation, Omni, and Pinto...Japan was shipping over Sentras, Corollas, and Accords.

Fast-forward 30 years later, Detroit still doesn't get it! The Japanese and Koreans aren't smarter. They don't have any secret techniques we don't know about. They don't use materials that we can't get our hands on. They don't have any insight into consumers' minds that we don't have. Yet, this is the best Detroit can do?

The bailouts are going to make it worse! You think Detroit was mired in apathy, short-term greed, and over-reliance on the government before? Wait til the next time they're in a pinch. The taxpayers will be expected to bail them out again now that there's a precedence.

My wife's foreign car comes with a 10 year 100,000 mi bumper to bumper. My truck had a defective cable housing break twice at 7,000 and 24,000 miles. They wouldn't replace it the second time because my warranty was no longer valid since I had the vehicle for 40 months. I explained that this was a defective item that was recently replaced. They explained that since there wasn't a recall there was nothing they could do. I explained that not only will I never buy a vehicle from them again, I would tell everyone in my family and all my coworkers not to buy their brand again. Since I'm likely to buy a few more trucks before I die, I figure they are losing around 120K in sales from me over a lifetime. I've talked at least half a dozen people out of buying their products so far. I hope all that lost revenue was worth the 300 bucks it cost me to fix their defective cabling bracket. It would have been 10 bucks in parts and 15 minutes in labor on their end. This is why these companies (this was Chrysler) deserve to fail. If you won't stand behind your product why on earth would I come back and buy more. Madness. When my dodge finally craps out I'm getting a Toyota. The auto manufacturers of Michigan can suck start a dillon for all I care.

[enfield]

I'm always amazed by the number of people who've never played the game, but know how to run an auto company.

[TMF]

I'm always amazed by the number of people who've never played the game, but know how to run an auto company.

I don't need to be a football star to understand why a team sucks so bad. I also am sick of all the whining coming from the Michigan auto industry that blames everyone but their own crooked ways.

[RobertNashville]

For nearly 100 years Automotive industry did not suffer from any government intervention. The troubles in Automotive are consequences of corporate decision making. Top executives base most decisions on their short term personal goals. They do not care of technical superiority of domestic cars.

Americans do not buy "foreign made cars". They buy the cars they like to drive means technically advanced cars. Germans and Japanese (under socialist governments) managed to build such cars.

After all the notion "domestic" and "import" are not straightforward. Ford Fusion is totally Mexican car while Honda Accord is domestic (made in Ohio)

Unions are evil. Big corporation are even more evil. They would destroy entire country for short term profits of greedy executives.

I've had the "what's foreign and what's domestic" discussion many times on many forums. Having retired from a major auto manufacturer I know the line between "foreign and domestic" is extremely nebulous at best. There used to be a true and demonstrable difference between a "domestic" vs a "foreign" car but the majority of the difference today resides in the memories of those who think that how it was is how it is today.

"Domestic" auto makers have no one to blame for their troubles except for the people they see when they look in the mirror...much of the government intervention into the auto industry happened at the behest of (or at least with the tacit approval of) the auto makers/the UAW and only served to ultimately make their underlying problems worse.

Much of Detroit's problems stem from the city's dependence on one manufacturing base.