Is it just me?

[towerclimber37]

Is it just me? or does this sort of stuff tick you off as well?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24853_Leftists_Supporting_the_Troops&only#comments

In my opinion, these folks don't care to support our country...I might be radical in my thinking, but I'm all for giving these SOBS' the boot...right out of the country.

Marching in an anti war rally is one thing....open sedition/treason is another.

I've had a belly full of seeing this sort of nonsense, put out in the media about how we're killing thousands of innocent Iraqis.

thats a load of horse manure.

we're not killing Innocent anything...much less Innocent Iraqis.

the majority of the people that have been killed are a. from Iran living in Iraq. b. part of either an jihadiis or wahabbi militia that serves only the intent to bring Iraq down.

the stupid leftwing moonbats don't remember the 10 year war between Iran and Iraq..nor do they seem to grasp the concept that if Iran can step in and infiltrate Iraq like Syria did to Lebanon back in the 80's that they would be in control of not only thier own oil (they're the 4th largest supplier to the world) but that if Iraq as well (3rd largest.) That pushes alot of power into a 3rd world theocracy that is an open proponent for the downfall of America.

So, does this bother anyone else but me??

[Guest Len]

I'm probably the most left-wing guy on TGO and as such offer the following:

1) I am thankful I live in a country that allows such protest. (And the counter-protest I hope was also permitted.)

2) A healthy debate on the merits of the war and the administration's policies is certainly a worthwhile goal and will only serve to strengthen our Republic in the long run. However, this demonstration does not further this cause.

3) These people are not representative of liberalism as a philosophy nor the Democratic Party as a political organization.

4) As for what they stand for, I'm just speechless. Sure, oppose the war. Sure, march to impeach President Bush. Sure, despair in the high number of coalition and civilian casualties. Complain we invaded the wrong country and still can't find Osama. But, to blame the soldiers who volunteered to put their life on the line and who are following lawfully issued orders is just wrong and mean-spirited. I mean, these people are dying for us - a little respect please!!

5) I have long thought that being offended by speech can be valuable. If it stirs you to action, to participation, to debate, to protest, offensive acts can serve a purpose. So, if you are offended by what Tower showed us, good!! Be glad offensive speech is permitted in this country and then take action that supports the opposite of what the offensive speech indicates! Without evil, it is hard to recognize good.

-Len

[Guest jackdog]

Since I fall into the category of baby killer or so I was told a few times. I find this very distasteful. But I do support the first amendment as well as the second. As for the folks pictured I doubt any one of them would put there ass on the line for America.

The fact that many are wearing masks speaks volumes as to who they are in my opinion.

[towerclimber37]

Len, read my post carefully...I also support the right to protest...what I don't support, and didn't even when Clinton was in office, was the open call for the murder of our President. I also do NOT advocate the dissolution of our Government/country. Apparently I posted a kneejerk reaction to seeing the pictures..I've seen several posts about how these are anarchists and in no way affiliated with the liberal party..what I want to know is if this is so, then why were there signs by other liberals NOT dressed like ninjas, that said stuff like "long live falluja"?

*sigh*

I guess I have to disagree with you LEN, there ARE limits to free speech. The media has made their own laws concerning the first amendment and has bullied the government and the people into accepting their ideals.

I don't.

Its not my belief that inciting sedition is covered under the first amendment.

I find in morally reprehensible that people that enjoy the freedoms of MY country burn the flag of MY country while others look on and do nothing.

I guess that I too am one of those people that killed innocent iraqis as well..since at the time they were stealing the neonatal equipment from the hospital in kuwait city, cars, and just about everything else they could lay their hands on.

yep...I'm all for free speech..but I guess I'll have to be a right wing Nazi, or what ever they call us these days, when I see open sedition and I speak up about it.

[Guest Boomhower]

How can you say those things and wave the red, white, and blue in the background? Where do they live again?...O I'm sorry, America.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

How can you say those things and wave the red, white, and blue in the background? Where do they live again?...O I'm sorry, America.

I couldnt have said it better myself......

[dkd83]

I believe the main problem comes from how we identify these types of protests/protesters. It is a common fallacy seen from all sectors of the modern American political scene to associate these movements (i.e. Code Pink and others) as Liberal social movements. They are very far from Liberal in their mind-sets and their goals.

A more apt designation for these groups is Socialist at a minimum or Communist at the extreme. Ideologically the Republican Party of today is much closer to the Liberal movement heralded by John Locke in the 17th century, Adam Smith, Thomas Malthus, and Thomas Jefferson in the 18th century and further expounded upon in the 19th century by John Stuart Mill. A general lack of understanding by all parties involved leads to the confusion when properly identifying these "fringe" groups.

With all this considered I must agree with Len's estimation that:

"3) These people are not representative of liberalism as a philosophy nor the Democratic Party as a political organization."

However, the continuing movement by prominent members of the Democratic Party towards these groups decreases their attractiveness to many members of the electorate.

Anti-military rhetoric coupled with anti-American sentiment enrages me personally but more importantly it is indicative of the complete lack of effective leadership, from all parties, on both the national and local stages in today's America.

[Guest Volfan]

A crazy person, a traitor, and a terrorist sympathiser all went to a peace rally to burn a solder in effigy and defecate on a US flag...

There is no punch line...it really happened!

[Guest Len]

Tower:

We agree more than you think.

1) I never said, nor did I ever think you didnt support the right to protest.

2) I also agree that calling for open murder of the President is wrong.

3) I also agree there are limits to free speech. (Cant yell "fire!" ina crowded movie theater, etc.) All rights have limits. (Where we draw the line is where rational men tend to disagree.)

4) If you read my post carefully (the last point especially), I am advocating you do exactly what you are doing.

We do disagree on one thing:

1) I consider burning the flag protected speech. (An old WWII vet I knew once was almost in tears when he heard about attempts to outlaw burning the flag, he said "Protecting this freedom is exactly why I was served, and why so many of my buddies died." He's passed away now.)

Enjoy the cold weather up in MN. Its 82 and sunny here in Nashville.

-Len

Len, read my post carefully...I also support the right to protest...what I don't support, and didn't even when Clinton was in office, was the open call for the murder of our President. I also do NOT advocate the dissolution of our Government/country. Apparently I posted a kneejerk reaction to seeing the pictures..I've seen several posts about how these are anarchists and in no way affiliated with the liberal party..what I want to know is if this is so, then why were there signs by other liberals NOT dressed like ninjas, that said stuff like "long live falluja"?

*sigh*

I guess I have to disagree with you LEN, there ARE limits to free speech. The media has made their own laws concerning the first amendment and has bullied the government and the people into accepting their ideals.

I don't.

Its not my belief that inciting sedition is covered under the first amendment.

I find in morally reprehensible that people that enjoy the freedoms of MY country burn the flag of MY country while others look on and do nothing.

I guess that I too am one of those people that killed innocent iraqis as well..since at the time they were stealing the neonatal equipment from the hospital in kuwait city, cars, and just about everything else they could lay their hands on.

yep...I'm all for free speech..but I guess I'll have to be a right wing Nazi, or what ever they call us these days, when I see open sedition and I speak up about it.

[towerclimber37]

You're right Len, we do agree..

I also believe that burning a flag is allowable (I said its morally reprehensible to me...then again, I grew up with rules like "no shooting on the sabbath...so I might be a bit old fashioned.

thanks for the well wishes! I figure it'll be low 40's or 50's up there by the border!

enjoy the great shooting weather down there!!!

[Marswolf]

I don't mind a serious discussion of where the country has been and where it is headed. Scholarly disagreement is desirable and healthy for the nation.

I do object to giving spoiled brats air or column time for what is not an intelligent examination. Just because you can shout loudly, doesn't mean that the media should cover your tantrum.

[Guest Len]

I don't mind a serious discussion of where the country has been and where it is headed. Scholarly disagreement is desirable and healthy for the nation.

I do object to giving spoiled brats air or column time for what is not an intelligent examination. Just because you can shout loudly, doesn't mean that the media should cover your tantrum.

So true, Mars.

Often times it is the people/group/orgzn with the loudest mouth (ie, the most money) who get heard in the media. If the press wont cover them, they can buy all the commercial time they want.

Often, the people with the best/most interesting ideas are the ones who can least afford to shout through the din of the special interests.

That's why I'm an advocate of the value of alternative/new media.

-Len

Btw, I agree with you on your "Spam I am?" post.

[Marswolf]

Len, the spam post was in our super-secret staff area.

But to fill everyone in, I despise people who come on a board just to advertise their product or service.

[towerclimber37]

But to fill everyone in, I despise people who come on a board just to advertise their product or service.

dang...and here I was hoping to sell my hare restorer with permanant wave...guaranteed to get your jack rabbit hoppin, with a wave goodbye!

ugh...that was a bad joke even for me.