Gun store with Gunbuster sign

[Guest bkelm18]

Because we all know that a sign will prevent anything bad from ever happening.

[Guest 270win]

That's right, blame all legal gun owners with handgun carry permits for the actions of a few stupid people. Similar to the silliness we heard in Memphis about Shelby County, Memphis, and Germantown trying to put up signs to make legal handgun carry permit folks be fined for carrying in a park. The typical "Oh we support gun rights, BUT we are afraid of guns in a park". Similar stance by property owners who stick up signs. As if such signs keep the pant sagging gang bangers from carrying.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I think the reason why gun shops post isn't the same reason say restaurants or other stores post. It isn't about hopefully preventing a crime with a sign, which doesn't work, it is about preventing an accident. Gun owners, as a group, are not exempt from idiots. We have just as many idiots among our ranks as any other group. But when a idiot from our ranks makes a mistake it can be deadly.

And we have all seen them. Just like the dealer who shot himself that was mentioned earlier. He was an idiot for showing someone his cool laser sight by projecting it onto his hand then pulling the trigger. Or those people who think the trigger is a place to rest your finger when not shooting.

If you want to see how many idiots there are in our group stand at the check station at the next gun show. It is amazing how many guns get pointed at the officers then when the officer opens the action a round falls out. Then the gun owner first has a dumb look on his face then laughs about it. Same thing can be said for people coming into the gunshop just on a smaller scale. Where it happens a few dozen times in a day at a show it might happen once a week in a shop but it is still happening. And for me it would be concerning.

In the end we need to accept the wishes of the store owner no matter what kind of store it is. If they don't want you in there with a gun you have a choice, remove your gun or go somewhere else. Regardless of the sign and whether it is legal you still have to follow the wishes of the property owner. The only thing that changes by not having a "legal" sign is you may have a defense for walking past it but you will still be in trouble for not leaving when asked to.

Property owner's wishes trump your right to do anything on their property including carry a firearm. They are not removing the right to defend yourself, they are just changing the way in which you can defend yourself. The Ammendments of the Constitution are there to address abuses by the government, not abuses by private parties. Laws address abuses by private parties and as it stands right now the law tips towards the property owner.

Dolomite

[DaveS]

What is the point of going to a gun store that is afraid of legal folks with gun? I always think it is funny that people who claim to support the second amendment, handgun carry permits, etc. prohibit those who have spent over two hundred dollars to get legal from carrying on their property. It is like they want to carry but no one else.

The small amount of money (over 200 dollars) that you and I spend on training and HCPs, is nothing close to the 2 mil that the shop owner may have to pay in court settlements and lawyer fee's if another customer is accidently shot by some yoyo! "Postings" are there for reasons.

The word "Legal" is NOT spelled "S-M-A-R-T". I think a "mental evaluation" should be a part of the HCP process. I only say that because I've met a few folks who were "Legal", but the jelly done fell off their peanut butter sandwich!

Another way to look at it is, unless the shop owner knows you, how does he or she know that you are "legal", and not just another punk with a gun? (take no offense)...So before we all start hoot'n and holler'n about rights and "proper signage"....just take a moment and put yourself into the business owners shoes. Better yet, go to your local gunshop and "Volunteer" to help out for the day. Sweep floors, wait on customers, "show" guns to customers, deal with the day to day doings with a gun shop (or any business for that matter).

Please report back to all of us on how many "gun barrels" got pointed at your face because someone doesn't know "gun safety"....let us know about the guy standing over on the holster isle waving a loaded handgun around trying to find the "right" pancake. Also let us know how many times you have to push a "legal" handgun away from your face, when the occassional customer has a question about his "glow in the dark" sights. Need I keep going?

Your "other" customers will appreciate your efforts in keeping them "safe" in your store....

Dave

Edited July 2, 2012 by wd-40

[Defender]

I have been in two gun stores with a no loaded firearms policy. I spent no money, only time there.

Our LGS has this sign.

I'd like to have a sign like that!

[Defender]

The small amount of money (over 200 dollars) that you and I spend on training and HCPs, is nothing close to the 2 mil that the shop owner may have to pay in court settlements and lawyer fee's if another customer is accidently shot by some yoyo! "Postings" are there for reasons.

The word "Legal" is NOT spelled "S-M-A-R-T". I think a "mental evaluation" should be a part of the HCP process. I only say that because I've met a few folks who were "Legal", but their jelly done fell off their sandwich!

Another way to look at it is, unless the shop owner knows you, how does he or she know that you are "legal", and not just another punk with a gun? (take no offense)...So before we all start hoot'n and holler'n about rights and "proper signage"....just take a moment and put yourself into the business owners shoes. Better yet, go to your local gunshop and "Volunteer" to help out for the day. Sweep floors, wait on customers, "show" guns to customers, deal with the day to day doings with a gun shop (or any business for that matter).

Please report back to all of us on how many "gun barrels" got pointed at your face because someone doesn't know "gun safety"....let us know about the guy standing over on the holster isle waving a loaded handgun around trying to find the "right" pancake. Also let us know how many times you have to push a "legal" handgun away from your face, when the occassional customer has a question about his "glow in the dark" sights. Need I keep going?

Your "other" customers will appreciate your efforts in keeping them "safe" in your store....

Dave

I take your point, and if I was in your store, I would abide by your wishes, but because of your policy, I would prefer to take my business elsewhere to a more "carry friendly" LGS. Just sayin...

[Just2Honor]

Hero Gear signs says (or words to that effect): "HCP Carriers Welcome Please keep weapon holstered. All others please clear your weapon outside." Seems a reasonable approach to me and clear as to the shop's intention--welcoming, respectful, and safe.

[TMF]

Hero Gear signs says (or words to that effect): "HCP Carriers Welcome Please keep weapon holstered. All others please clear your weapon outside." Seems a reasonable approach to me and clear as to the shop's intention--welcoming, respectful, and safe.

This is the way to go. There sure are idiots out there that don't understand gun safety and are likely to have an ND trying to unholster and unload a weapon in a gun store. I seen some pretty shaky people handling loaded weapons that I don't want to be around. I'd be interested to know how many gun stores have had ND incidents in their history. I'm aware of one at a LGS. If it stays holstered there is nothing to worry about. On the firing line observe the rules; if not, may the hammer of justice fall swiftly.

[bubbiesdad]

The small amount of money (over 200 dollars) that you and I spend on training and HCPs, is nothing close to the 2 mil that the shop owner may have to pay in court settlements and lawyer fee's if another customer is accidently shot by some yoyo! "Postings" are there for reasons.

The word "Legal" is NOT spelled "S-M-A-R-T". I think a "mental evaluation" should be a part of the HCP process. I only say that because I've met a few folks who were "Legal", but their jelly done fell off their sandwich!

Another way to look at it is, unless the shop owner knows you, how does he or she know that you are "legal", and not just another punk with a gun? (take no offense)...So before we all start hoot'n and holler'n about rights and "proper signage"....just take a moment and put yourself into the business owners shoes. Better yet, go to your local gunshop and "Volunteer" to help out for the day. Sweep floors, wait on customers, "show" guns to customers, deal with the day to day doings with a gun shop (or any business for that matter).

Please report back to all of us on how many "gun barrels" got pointed at your face because someone doesn't know "gun safety"....let us know about the guy standing over on the holster isle waving a loaded handgun around trying to find the "right" pancake. Also let us know how many times you have to push a "legal" handgun away from your face, when the occassional customer has a question about his "glow in the dark" sights. Need I keep going?

Your "other" customers will appreciate your efforts in keeping them "safe" in your store....

Dave

So, you must also feel that the store owner is responsible for anyone hurt or killed by criminals during a robbery.

Keep going yes, since this has obviously happened to you numerous times.

" Other customers ", who would that be? I refuse to spend money in a gun store that disallows carry. As far as I'm concerned, they should sell something else,(golf clubs tennis racquets,fishing poles and bait? Maybe ladies lounge wear).. We have one nearby that is really ridiculous, not only do they prohibit carry, they specialize in defensive handgun training.

Edited July 2, 2012 by bubbiesdad

[Guest 270win]

Gun shops I have been to in Memphis have signs requesting people with handgun carry permits to keep their guns holstered. I have seen such a sign at a gun shop on Summer. Anyone who doesn't keep his gun holstered and pulls it out loaded is asked to leave.

What is the difference between carrying a gun at a gun store or Kroger or Wal Mart or a park? Wal Mart even sells guns. When we start saying "Oh we don't want guns in parks, they are bad at church someone can get hurt, or not at a stranger's home" you end up with a license that is basically only good for keeping a handgun in the car. Arkansas had that for a long long time where it was honestly worthless to get a license because there were TWENTY places people said "Oh we don't want a gun here, there, or anywhere!"

[Guest etnsr9c]

I agree that the owner has the right to post what ever he wants, but I will not be spending money with him, that is my right. It is that simple.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So, you must also feel that the store owner is responsible for anyone hurt or killed by criminals during a robbery.

Keep going yes, since this has obviously happened to you numerous times.

" Other customers ", who would that be? I refuse to spend money in a gun store that disallows carry. As far as I'm concerned, they should sell something else,(golf clubs tennis racquets,fishing poles and bait? Maybe ladies lounge wear).. We have one nearby that is really ridiculous, not only do they prohibit carry, they specialize in defensive handgun training.

Actually people are sued all the time for actions that were no fault of their own. Just because someone is sued doesn't mean that they are going to loose but the costs involved in mounting a proper defense is in the thousands of dollars. And people can initate a suite for any reason they want and the courts MUST hear it no matter how silly it is. People do not need an attorney to sue someone, all they need is the proper paperwork and the filling fee. And the filling fee can be waved if they can prove a financial hardship.

I am not a shop owner, I do not work in a shop yet at least twice a month some idiot wants to point a gun at me.

It is the shop owners choice to no allow firearms just as it is the customer's choice to not shop there. It is all about choice and when you start forcing your will upon another human being then don't get upset when someone does the same to you.

Dolomite

[tnhawk]

...... There sure are idiots out there that don't understand gun safety..... On the firing line observe the rules; if not, may the hammer of justice fall swiftly.

The fact that someone has possession of a weapon doesn't mean they have the ability to handle it safely. I often see and must correct people for firing line violations. They have read the range rules and signed a form that they understand them, but then act in an unsafe manner.

[Guest 270win]

I do think it is ok for people to not allow guns on their property, but it should not be a criminal matter EXCEPT trespassing when asked to leave and the person does not leave. This is a civil matter in most states, not criminal. A person who has a handgun carry permit should not be subject to criminal penalties for carrying a gun anywhere. Now it is ok though if the gun is discovered for the property owner to ask the person to leave. This should be the same for schools, govt buildings, churches, houses, Wal Mart, whatever. No criminal penalty EXCEPT when not leaving when asked. Treat it like the no shirt no shoes no service signs.

[DaveS]

So, you must also feel that the store owner is responsible for anyone hurt or killed by criminals during a robbery.

Keep going yes, since this has obviously happened to you numerous times.

" Other customers ", who would that be? I refuse to spend money in a gun store that disallows carry. As far as I'm concerned, they should sell something else,(golf clubs tennis racquets,fishing poles and bait? Maybe ladies lounge wear).. We have one nearby that is really ridiculous, not only do they prohibit carry, they specialize in defensive handgun training.

Being robbed and shot is a whole different situation.

Look at it this way...I can come into your house or yard, with or without your permission and get hurt, and hold you completely responsible for my injuries. If I am on your property, and I get injured by one of your guest, YOU and your GUEST is now liable for my injuries. I may not win my suit...but I will put you through the ringer in the process!

It does not have to be gun or gun related...I can walk across your front yard, trip on the edge of your sidewalk, break my ankle and then collect medical expenses from you!

Edited July 2, 2012 by wd-40

[I_Like_Pie]

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Edited July 2, 2012 by I_Like_Pie

[Guest bkelm18]

My simple take on it: A gun store that has a gunbuster is a gun store that doesn't want my business. Simple as that. Same goes for any other business. Why am I going to waste my time buying a gun from a shop that doesn't support my right to carry it? 'Nuff said.

[DaveS]

My simple take on it: A gun store that has a gunbuster is a gun store that doesn't want my business. Simple as that. Same goes for any other business. Why am I going to waste my time buying a gun from a shop that doesn't support my right to carry it? 'Nuff said.

I agree with you 100%!!!

Dave

[bubbiesdad]

Being robbed and shot is a whole different situation.

Look at it this way...I can come into your house or yard, with or without your permission and get hurt, and hold you completely responsible for my injuries. If I am on your property, and I get injured by one of your guest, YOU and your GUEST is now liable for my injuries. I may not win my suit...but I will put you through ringer in the process!

It does not have to be gun or gun related...I can walk across your front yard, trip on the edge of your sidewalk, break my ankle and then collect medical expenses from you!

Are there different levels of injury being shot by some yahoo in a gun store as opposed to a robber? That is what you seem to be saying.

[JAB]

A TRUE customer WILL ALWAYS come back....just saying....

I'm not so sure about that. I have my own example to lend credence to my doubt.

The liquor store at Dixie Lee junction has long been my libation provider of choice. I might go to another store here or there but in the 20 years that I have been legal to purchase alcohol, I would hazard a guess that 85% to 90% of such purchases have been made in that store. I like their setup, selection and so on and continued shopping with them despite the fact that there are now liquor stores much closer to where I live.

Recently, however, I stopped in there intending to make a purchase and was greeted by a brand, spanking new gunbuster sign next to the front door. Judging by the fact that I didn't recognize any of the folks behind the counter (I could see them through the front window), I'm guessing they have new owners, new management or something to go with the new sign. Well, upon seeing that sign I turned right around, went back to the car and drove to a different liquor store. I have not set foot in the Dixie Lee store since and will not unless I hear that the sign is gone (I will not even go so far as periodically checking, myself - they have lost my business at this point.) Now, not being an extremely heavy drinker I don't know that I was ever a 'major' source of profits for them even before I had to cut back even further on my alcohol consumption due to non-related health issues. However, being that I made the majority of my alcohol purchases at that store for nearly two decades, I would say I was a TRUE customer and I WILL NOT be going back. Just saying...

Edited July 2, 2012 by JAB

[DaveS]

I'm not so sure about that. I have my own example to lend credence to my doubt.

The liquor store at Dixie Lee junction has long been my libation provider of choice. I might go to another store here or there but in the 20 years that I have been legal to purchase alcohol, I would hazard a guess that 85% to 90% of such purchases have been made in that store. I like their setup, selection and so on and continued shopping with them despite the fact that there are now liquor stores much closer to where I live.

Recently, however, I stopped in there intending to make a purchase and was greeted by a brand, spanking new gunbuster sign next to the front door. Judging by the fact that I didn't recognize any of the folks behind the counter (I could see them through the front window), I'm guessing they have new owners, new management or something to go with the new sign. Well, upon seeing that sign I turned right around, went back to the car and drove to a different liquor store. I have not set foot in the Dixie Lee store since and will not unless I hear that the sign is gone (I will not even go so far as periodically checking, myself - they have lost my business at this point.) Now, not being an extremely heavy drinker I don't know that I was ever a 'major' source of profits for them even before I had to cut back even further on my alcohol consumption due to non-related health issues. However, being that I made the majority of my alcohol purchases at that store for nearly two decades, I would say I was a TRUE customer and I WILL NOT be going back. Just saying...

Would you go back if the "old owners" were still there?

[DaveS]

Being shot by a robber in the comission of a felony robbery does NOT reflect on the business owner as something he condones. Being shot by some dumb*** because he is mishandling his weapon, because the business owner ALLOWED that to happen inside the store is a whole different set of circumstances!

Since I am now getting "blue in the face" trying to explain all this....I need to run out in the heat and flip my ribs.....later!

[bubbiesdad]

Being shot by a robber in the comission of a felony robbery does NOT reflect on the business owner as something he condones. Being shot by some dumb*** because he is mishandling his weapon, because the business owner ALLOWED that to happen inside the store is a whole different set of circumstances!

Since I am now getting "blue in the face" trying to explain all this....I need to run out in the heat and flip my ribs.....later!

None of the shops where I choose to do business ban the carry of handguns. Neither do they condone or ALLOW the handling of said handguns.

[Major Kong]

This is apparently a pretty emotional subject for some people. Very simple for me. Gunbuster sign = no cash from me.

[JAB]

Would you go back if the "old owners" were still there?

Kind of a 'trick question', huh? The direct answer is, "Not if they posted to prevent legal carry, no." Of course, my suspicion is that they wouldn't post as they didn't post, before. Therefore, if the 'old owners' were still there then there likely would be no gunbuster sign (and no reason for me not to go there) - hence that being a trick question.