Stolen Valor Act Nuked

[TMF]

Generally, claiming to be a cop is not a crime. Again intent is important. Telling someone you are a cop is not a crime. Restricting their movement and telling them you are a cop is impersonating a Police Officer.

Is it illegal to wear a TBI or FBI jacket? Is it illegal to wear a full Police uniform?

Saying you are a MOH recipient would be ignorant. There have only been 4 since Vietnam. All you would need is a name and 30 seconds to check.

Well I recall a young man (with a HCP) being arrested for walking around wearing a police jacket with a pistol on his belt. I'll have to Google it real quick to check because I don't know what he was charged with. This was sometime last year in middle Tennessee if I remember.... I think at a Wally World.

There are 3 living CMOH recipients post-Viet Nam era. I believe there is somewhere in the range of 80 living CMOH recipients, of course they're all much older. Unfortunately the average American gets their knowledge of Military decorations from movies they watch. To you and I it would raise immediate red flags if someone started claiming such feats, however, to the untrained observer they have no reason to believe that someone would like about such things.

At least these people can be publicly shamed. The recent outing of the Democrat running for a Congressional seat in Arkansas is getting a proper media pounding. Even the Huffington Post blasted him.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The world would be a better place if we could call it as it is. If stupid people knew they were actually really stupid maybe they would try to at least appear less stupid. And if a lazy person were to be called lazy maybe they would get off their butt and quit being lazy. We should be able to say what we want about someone as long as it is one truthful and two using words that are in a English language dictionary.

But when people get their feelings hurt, even if it is true, they sue. And that is a drain on our legal system and only serves to empty the pockets of honest people while lining the pockets of the ambulance chaser attorneys. Now not all ambulance chasers are attorneys but some are. They will get some pro bono attorney to sue knowing he will get the lions share of the award, especially if the case drags on.

The problem with being politically correct is it is up to the person you are talking about whether is is politically correct. And those receiving it will find fault in what is being said even if everything that is said is 100% truthful.

Imagine how the Presidential campaign would go if lying would make them forfeit the presidential bid. Most of BS that spews from their pie holes would stop.

Dolomite

[Grunt67]

If you have never recommended, presented or received an award for wounds or valor - - - there is no way you can understand how Disgusting, Repugnant, and Sickening this ruling is.

The founders' idea of free speech was to speak truth to power.

It was not to protect those who LIE!

I agree. Military awards don't ( shouldn't ) come easy. But then there's John Kerry.....

[DaveTN]

I agree. Military awards don't ( shouldn't ) come easy. But then there's John Kerry.....

I’m certainly no Kerry fan, but he earned his awards.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Something else to think about.

The two worst things in the world, at least in my eyes, is a liar and a thief. We have tons of laws making it illegal to steal. Why not do the same for those that lie with intent to gain something?

I can deal firmly and directly with a thief but a liar not so much.I just avoid those who are proven to be liars or even those I think might have lied about something.

Dolomite

[mav]

As I stated earlier, I believe the SCOTUS made the right call on this. Free speech isn't just speech that everyone agrees with. There are times when the speech is going to be offensive to certain segments of the population. Lying about being in the military or their service record for whatever reason is free speech. There is no right to be from from offensive language in the constitution.

Seriously though, who does it hurt, outside of hurting one's feelings? Nobody. There are greater tragedies and much more important things to worry about than someone boasting fake exploits.

For example, the percentage of taxpayers versus non-taxpayers is vastly more important than the Stolen Valor Act, and it is something that actually affects everyone. I have an enormous problem that almost 50% of Americans do not pay federal income taxes, and some of those who do not pay are lying and cheating on their taxes. Almost 50% are having their lives subsidized off the backs of others. While I do not diminish the offense some p.o.s. bragging about exploits that have only occured in the fantasy of his mind, I would say that if people are looking to be pi$$ed about something, get pi$$ed about something that really matters and that actually affects you.

[DaveTN]

Something else to think about.

The two worst things in the world, at least in my eyes, is a liar and a thief. We have tons of laws making it illegal to steal. Why not do the same for those that lie with intent to gain something?

I can deal firmly and directly with a thief but a liar not so much.I just avoid those who are proven to be liars or even those I think might have lied about something.

Dolomite

It is against the law to lie to gain money; it’s called fraud, theft by deception or deceptive practices.

As I said, I don’t think the SCOTUS decisions stops these people from being prosecuted if they are lying to collect money. It just means they can’t be arrested for telling you they are a MOH recipient (or whatever).

It’s the same as someone addressing a thread like they were a cop and then saying they “worked in Law Enforcementâ€, only to find out they were a dispatcher or an IT guy. It just shoots any credibility they had; but it’s not illegal.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I understand the fraud part of it but I am talking about something else.

I am sure there are a lot of cases of "gifts"being given to those who tell lies. Had it not been for their lie they would have not gained even if it was a gift. The "gifts" were on condition of the person being a true hero. Or those who ask for a discount. The discount is a "gift" and not a right. And then later it is found out they were not what they said.

I would love for people like that to be charged criminally.

Dolomite

[RobertNashville]

If you have never recommended, presented or received an award for wounds or valor - - - there is no way you can understand how Disgusting, Repugnant, and Sickening this ruling is.

The founders' idea of free speech was to speak truth to power.

It was not to protect those who LIE!

Having served and still serving, I understand your feelings on the matter. However, I also believe this SCOTUS decision was the correct one.

Our right to free speech (to express ourselves) is not and should not be any more limited than is absolutely necessary; hence, inciting someone to riot or yelling "fire" in a crowded auditorium when there is no fire and perjury should be a crimes but that's as far as it should go.

It is repugnant that someone would lie about being a member of a special unit or of having received a medal they didn't receive and I think such should be exposed whenever they are encountered but aainst the law? I think that went too far.

[TMF]

Seriously though, who does it hurt, outside of hurting one's feelings? Nobody. There are greater tragedies and much more important things to worry about than someone boasting fake exploits.

For example, the percentage of taxpayers versus non-taxpayers is vastly more important than the Stolen Valor Act, and it is something that actually affects everyone. I have an enormous problem that almost 50% of Americans do not pay federal income taxes, and some of those who do not pay are lying and cheating on their taxes. Almost 50% are having their lives subsidized off the backs of others. While I do not diminish the offense some p.o.s. bragging about exploits that have only occured in the fantasy of his mind, I would say that if people are looking to be pi$$ed about something, get pi$$ed about something that really matters and that actually affects you.

I think I can be pissed off about both. I don't think that rationale works to support not having a law or being upset about something. Murder is certainly a bigger deal than someone blaring music at 2 am when my kids are trying to sleep. That doesn't mean that the latter law should be ignored simply because people murder sometimes.

[mav]

I think I can be pissed off about both. I don't think that rationale works to support not having a law or being upset about something. Murder is certainly a bigger deal than someone blaring music at 2 am when my kids are trying to sleep. That doesn't mean that the latter law should be ignored simply because people murder sometimes.

Your analogy doesn't work. Blaring music at 2 am does affect you, or at least your kids. Go beyond the pissed off part, which I understand totally, and ask yourself does someone lying about their service or which medals they received affect you. It doesn't, so I don't really see the need to get worked up over it. The last thing any of us should want is people acting on emotion pleading to the government to create more laws that really aren't necessary. We have enough laws as it is.

If I am not mistaken I believe there are private individuals/organizations that expose people who make fraudulent claims regarding military service. I am totally fine with that and think that is the best way it should be handled. More free speech in action.

[DMark]

So in summary.....

Lying is now Free Speech.

But calling somebody a "Lying SOB" is Hate Speech and may be punishable by law.

[mav]

So in summary.....

Lying is now Free Speech.

Not just now, always has been.

Don't get me started on hate crimes, that is another set of laws that do not need to exist.