Stolen Valor Act Nuked

[Oh Shoot]

Slipped right under the radar today, seems, between Obamacare and Holder being held in contempt.

SCOTUS struck down the Stolen Valor Act.

http://www.cbsnews.c...olen-valor-law/

http://www.latimes.c...0,4032290.story

etc

Edited June 29, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest bkelm18]

I think they made the right move. The 1st Amendment needs to stand whether we like it or not sometimes.

[Dolomite_supafly]

It goes along with their other rulings from a few years ago. I used to hunt and oust phonies all the time then when the SCOTUS made them wearing and lying about the awards legal under the first ammendment it slowed my vigor.

And although it is legal for these pieces of slime to wear the awards they did not earn it is also perfectly legal for us to embarrass them for doing so. The worst part isn't those wearing awards they haven't earned, it is the fact that by doing so it cheapens the awards given to our real heros in uniform.

And it is still illegal to receive money or benefits based on the lies these phonies tell.

Dolomite

[mav]

I think they made the right move. The 1st Amendment needs to stand whether we like it or not sometimes.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. Sheesh, there must be something wrong with me

[Guest bkelm18]

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. Sheesh, there must be something wrong with me

I think I just saw a pig flying around yelling that hell froze over.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Heh heh.

[DMark]

If you have never recommended, presented or received an award for wounds or valor - - - there is no way you can understand how Disgusting, Repugnant, and Sickening this ruling is.

The founders' idea of free speech was to speak truth to power.

It was not to protect those who LIE!

[TMF]

It's fraud, not freedom of speech. Every story I've seen where folks have been charged for stolen valor have been benefiting monetarily for their fraudulent representation of a hero. Last time I checked it was illegal to impersonate a member of the Military by donning an official uniform with the intent to impersonate:

http://corpuslegalis...-health-service

I'm personally aware of an individual prosecuted under this law in addition to other offenses long before Stolen Valor came along. Hell it's against federal law to impersonate a member of the Red Cross:

http://corpuslegalis...tle18/red-cross

Funny how these laws have been around for 50 years and no one cares, now suddenly that sh*theads who are trying to make a dime off the sacrifices of REAL MEN are suddenly victims and are having their 1st Amenment rights trampled on.... hooey!

EDIT:

And just to illustrate how often this happens, here is a recent case (May 2012) of some POS in KY who is facing charges for impersonating an Army Officer under Title 18 USC Section 702.... Stolen Valor is Section 704. But hey, Stolen Valor is SUDDENLY a problem with the 1st Amendment. Hooey.

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Man-charged-with-impersonating-a-military-officer-150804705.html

Edited June 30, 2012 by TMF 18B

[Guest bkelm18]

It was not to protect those who LIE!

I would bet hard money they would disagree with your sentiment.

[Guest bkelm18]

Benefitting from impersonation is indeed fraud, but walking around with a chest full of medals you didn't earn and all you do is brag up a storm, that cannot be illegal in a free society. We start making laws and rulings against things we simply disagree with is a slippery slope. Where does it end? The 1st Amendnent applies to ALL citizens, from the honorable to the despicable.

Edited June 30, 2012 by bkelm18

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Benefitting from impersonation is indeed fraud, but walking around with a chest full of medals you didn't earn and all you do is brag up a storm, that cannot be illegal in a free society. We start making laws and rulings against things we simply disagree with is a slippery slope. Where does it end? The 1st Amendnent applies to ALL citizens, from the honorable to the despicable.

Spock, as much as I hate to see something like this happen, that some things are sacred and have meanings that should

be held to a much higher standard, I do agree with you, also. You probably knew that.

[TMF]

Benefitting from impersonation is indeed fraud, but walking around with a chest full of medals you didn't earn and all you do is brag up a storm, that cannot be illegal in a free society. We start making laws and rulings against things we simply disagree with is a slippery slope. Where does it end? The 1st Amendnent applies to ALL citizens, from the honorable to the despicable.

It has been a crime to impersonate members of Federal organizations for a long, long time. Why is this suddenly an issue that soley relates to official Military decorations and badges? Why can't I go walking around wearing a TBI jacket and OC my pistol? I would get arrested for impersonating an officer, right? That's a crime. So where is my freedom of speech there?

It's one thing to tell a chick in a bar that you're a SpecialForcesSEALreconDeltaHaloScubaNinja with 16 Medals of Honor in an attempt to bang her, but that's not what these guys are doing. These clowns are publicly making claims in an attempt to benefit monetarily or through services rendered. It's fraud. Look at this POS from American Idol claiming all this garbage about being wounded and winning whatever BS awards. You think that wasn't considered when picking him for this show? He was a malingering peice of human trash that left Astan shortly after he got there because his ear had an owey. There is a common thread between all these oxygen thieves, they are trying to get money off the backs of real heroes and destroying the validity of the highest honors our nation can bestow on an individual.

But once again, it's cool to have a law against impersonating a member of the Red Cross (been a law for 60 years) and yet when some malingering schmedlap decides to don a MOH for the purpose of defrauding the community and taking advantage of people's patriotism and support for our troops, suddenly our rights are in jeopardy.

Edited June 30, 2012 by TMF 18B

[DMark]

... I would bet hard money they would disagree with your sentiment....

Recommend that you read and study The Federalist Papers.

[Guest bkelm18]

Recommend that you read and study The Federalist Papers.

Been there done that.

[Guest bkelm18]

It has been a crime to impersonate members of Federal organizations for a long, long time. Why is this suddenly an issue that soley relates to official Military decorations and badges? Why can't I go walking around wearing a TBI jacket and OC my pistol? I would get arrested for impersonating an officer, right? That's a crime. So where is my freedom of speech there?

It's one thing to tell a chick in a bar that you're a SpecialForcesSEALreconDeltaHaloScubaNinja with 16 Medals of Honor in an attempt to bang her, but that's not what these guys are doing. These clowns are publicly making claims in an attempt to benefit monetarily or through services rendered. It's fraud. Look at this POS from American Idol claiming all this garbage about being wounded and winning whatever BS awards. You think that wasn't considered when picking him for this show? He was a malingering peice of human trash that left Astan shortly after he got there because his ear had an owey. There is a common thread between all these oxygen thieves, they are trying to get money off the backs of real heroes and destroying the validity of the highest honors our nation can bestow on an individual.

But once again, it's cool to have a law against impersonating a member of the Red Cross (been a law for 60 years) and yet when some malingering schmedlap decides to don a MOH for the purpose of defrauding the community and taking advantage of people's patriotism and support for our troops, suddenly our rights are in jeopardy.

There's a distinction between fraud and simple impersonation. But it's a moot point. The SCOTUS made the call and it was the right one. You may not like it but that's the way it needs to be.

[BryanP]

It has been a crime to impersonate members of Federal organizations for a long, long time. Why is this suddenly an issue that soley relates to official Military decorations and badges? Why can't I go walking around wearing a TBI jacket and OC my pistol? I would get arrested for impersonating an officer, right? That's a crime. So where is my freedom of speech there?

Impersonating an actively serving police officer or member of the military is illegal because doing so allows you to situationally exert authority over others. Telling someone you used to be a cop or in the military doesn't mean diddly beyond them possibly giving you respect you don't deserve. You might gain monetarily, but that again is what existing fraud laws are designed to deal with.

I think people who falsely claim military service or honors are douchebags of the highest order, but I have to grudgingly agree with the Alvarez ruling.

Edited June 30, 2012 by BryanP

[TMF]

Impersonating an actively serving police officer or member of the military is illegal because doing so allows you to situationally exert authority over others. Telling someone you used to be a cop or in the military doesn't mean diddly beyond them possibly giving you respect you don't deserve. You might gain monetarily, but that again is what existing fraud laws are designed to deal with.

I think people who falsely claim military service or honors are douchebags of the highest order, but I have to grudgingly agree with the Alvarez ruling.

Perhaps I'm allowing my personal beliefs that medals for valor awarded by our Military and Congress are of an official nature and, therefore, the wearing of such devices is fraud.. I'm 100% for freedom of speech, but the way I interpret the wearing of valorous awards one didn't earn is not as I lie, I believe it is fraud.

[TMF]

It goes along with their other rulings from a few years ago. I used to hunt and oust phonies all the time then when the SCOTUS made them wearing and lying about the awards legal under the first ammendment it slowed my vigor.

And although it is legal for these pieces of slime to wear the awards they did not earn it is also perfectly legal for us to embarrass them for doing so.

Dolomite

I've claimed 4 frauds outed over the years. Everytime I was amazed at just how brazen these people would be in their description of their exploits. I do my best to educate people about how to pose questions in such a manner as to trip a fraud up when they're spewing their lies. Often times it's after them telling me a story about someone they met who claimed they were this or that, and then carefully disect the story to prove it's BS. It's something that gets under my skin like nothing else. There was actually a guy here a while back that got banned after telling a bunch of BS stories.

[Dolomite_supafly]

One of the biggest tell tale signs for me is when people say that what they did in the military was top secret but tell of their brazen exploits. First and foremost there isn't a job in the military that is top secret. Now some of the stuff they did might be classified but not your job or telling someone what it was.

Then I pretend to get excited and ask stuff like, did they black it out or cover up what you did on your DD204? And most times they respond with "yes". Anyone who is in the military knows it is a DD214, not DD404 and that it is detailing awards as well as what kind of benefits you may be entitled to and they are NEVER have parts blanked off, at least not the one the member receives upon exit from the service. Now I have blanked off parts of my DD214 when giving it to employers and such but that was to protect personal information.

Another thing I do for Army guys is just ask "MOS?". Any Army guy will know exactly what I am asking but those who haven't been in the Army will give a deer in headlights look.

Another big indicator for me is when people combine services when describing their job. Like Special Forces SEAL or Marine Airbonre Ranger. Believe me these guys are pretty dumb. And almost every phonie I have talked to is a sniper. Not sure what it is about wanting to be a sniper but they are all wanting to be a sniper.

And another indicator is their age vs their rank or job vs rank. I had a couple of kids, under 20 for sure, that had E-7 rank on talking about their explouts in Iraq. I listened for a minute or two not realizing they were phonies then I seen them both wearing E-7 rank. I said "you are kind of youg to be E-7 aren't you?". Got a blank stare. Then I pointed at their rank on their uniform. Then they made some comment I can't remember and I told them they were full of crap. They began to walk away as I yelled loud enough for others to hear me say they were phnies at which point they both took off in a dead sprint for their car. Turns out they were taking to couple of fireman about their exploits as firemen which were full of crap to according to the real firemen. Had another guy claiming to be Army SF. I asked if he was enlisted ot officer and he said officer, a 1st LT. Problem was you cannot be a member of SF as a LT, yu must be at least a Captain to attend selection.

And another indicator of someone who is full of crap is if there DD214 has more than one type of writing or typing on it. The DD214 is done at one time on and on one machine. I have seen fake copies of DD214's where they have doctored it up.

The fakes who disgust me the most are people who actually served their country and have nothing to be ashamed about yet embellish. I have seen it a lot, a cook, mecahnic or truck driver claiming to be something they are not. I have always had more respect for the support soldiers because without them we couldn't fight our way out of a paper bag.

And in those cases where I know the fake is lying but he still swears it is true I will get a copy of his service records to prove him wrong. I had one guy say he was SF in Vietnam. Turned out he was National Guard for about 6 months before getting kicked out of that in a time of war. He spent a few months in Germany as a photographer before getting his general discharge. And after I presented him with his own records showing he was a fake he came up with the same BS as most who get caught, that ia a fake record to hide what I really did.

Anyways I hate fakes. And as I said before it might be legal for them to wear and tell stories it is also legal for us to tell them they are full of crap as well. These people do it for attention and when you embarrass them with negative attention they generally think twice before doing it again but they will do it again and again.

Here is great place to research fakes:

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm

They have helped me out a lot over the years. I have given them donations to help keep this going. Read some of the fakes, you will be amazed at what these guys say.

Dolomite

[TMF]

Thank Dolo. Sadly enough the fakes I helped to out were all in the Army at the time. I've never had the opportunity to get one that had never seen service. I almost had one last year. I heard a bunch of second hand stories about a contract mechanic telling all these stories about his black ops when he was a SEAL. I heard enough to know he was full of it. I made an effort to have a run in with this guy but fate intervened. I am, however, always vigilant and easily annoyed with the fakes.

EDIT:

Here is an awesome link to militarytimes.com which has the "Hall of Stolen Valor." All kinds of great stories on there. One of them who fraudulently claimed he was a Ranger wounded in combat was able to escape a jail sentence, but the Judge put him on house arrest for Veteran's Day and Memorial Day... just great stuff!

http://www.militarytimes.com/projects/hallofstolenvalor/

Edited July 1, 2012 by TMF 18B

[DaveTN]

It's fraud, not freedom of speech.

As I read it, it could still be charged that way. Intent is the deciding factor. Saying you are a decorated hero to impress someone is one thing, saying it to help you get money is still fraud.

Why can't I go walking around wearing a TBI jacket and OC my pistol? I would get arrested for impersonating an officer, right? That's a crime. So where is my freedom of speech there?

Generally, claiming to be a cop is not a crime. Again intent is important. Telling someone you are a cop is not a crime. Restricting their movement and telling them you are a cop is impersonating a Police Officer.

Is it illegal to wear a TBI or FBI jacket? Is it illegal to wear a full Police uniform?

Saying you are a MOH recipient would be ignorant. There have only been 4 since Vietnam. All you would need is a name and 30 seconds to check.

[Guest bkelm18]

Saying you are a MOH recipient would be ignorant. There have only been 4 since Vietnam. All you would need is a name and 30 seconds to check.

There have been 12 total MOH awarded since Vietnam: 2 in Mogadishu and 10 MOH awarded in Iraq and Afghanistan (only 3 living recipients).

http://www.cmohs.org...-recipients.php

Edited July 1, 2012 by bkelm18

[Dolomite_supafly]

The biggest and most well known fraud is Jessie Macbeth. He made videos detailing everything then was ousted pretty bad.

Funny thing is I will never forget his face and he was on Judge Judy a few months back being sued over stuff a POS would do.

Look him up and you will see what a fake sounds like.

Dolomite

[tnhawk]

If you have never recommended, presented or received an award for wounds or valor - - - there is no way you can understand how Disgusting, Repugnant, and Sickening this ruling is.

The founders' idea of free speech was to speak truth to power.

It was not to protect those who LIE!

I can not believe the intent of our founders was to protect those who would lie about valor.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm not defending anyone regarding this case, but, if you understand that political speech allows you to lie,

and political correctness is nothing more than lying, in the end, you might see how they reached their decision.

As far as I'm concerned, political correctness is unconstitutional, but that won't ever make it to SCOTUS.