Not the normal question about buying a handgun out of state

[MadMarx]

At a gunshow awhile ago I noticed there was a dealer from Kentucky at a show in Tennessee, I have also noticed Georgia dealers at TN shows and TN dealears at GA shows. As a TN resident, I know I can not purchase a handgun from a GA dealer at a gunshow in TN or GA with out having a TN FFL handling the transfer. I know I can not purchase from an out of state resident without an instate FFL doing the transfer.

Here is the basic question with variations following:

Can I as a TN resident, purchase a handgun from a TN FFL who is at a gunshow in GA, with the normal paperwork and TBI background check?

Could I purchase a handgun from a GA FFL at a show in GA, have it transferred to a TN FFL who is also at that show and then take "delivery" of the handgun from the TN FFL while still at the gunshow in GA?

Can I as a TN resident purchase from a current TN Resident who at that particular moment is physically in Georgia?

Does the physical location of the sale matter or is it just the residency of the 2 sale participants?

As an example, I know someone who works in Dalton GA and lives in Chattanooga. He works in Dalton with a guy who lives in Cleveland TN.

Could the Chattanooga TN guy sell a gun to the Cleveland TN guy while on their lunch break in Dalton GA?

I have not done any of the above, nor do I know anybody who has, but living right on the border with GA, and knowing about the huge gunshow that is coming up in Atlanta in September with 2000 tables, I would like to know the legalities of these particular situations.

Thanks

[Jonnin]

Not sure about the law, but the dealers will do strange things sometimes. I once bought a gun in GA at a show by having the GA dealer "transfer" it to the next booth (tn dealer). I have no idea if this was legal, they both said it was, but they wanted money and I wanted the gun....

[tnhawk]

Holder and Bloomberg puppets don't seem to have any problem doing business out of their states of residence..

[gjohnsoniv]

Holder and Bloomberg puppets don't seem to have any problem doing business out of their states of residence..

Or out of country.

[hornett22]

I think the isuue is whether or not you are over the state line. Not where the dealer is from.

[hipower]

I think the isuue is whether or not you are over the state line. Not where the dealer is from.

I'm not up on the technical aspects, but I suspect hornett22 is right on this. My understanding is that it hinges on your personal, physical location as the buyer at point of purchase. If you are not a resident of the state in which the purchase is made, that you would be breaking the law. But that's my take, hopefully one of our legal friends here will chime in on this.

[Oh Shoot]

18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed

manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport

into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person

is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it

maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise

obtained by such person outside that State, except that this

paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires

a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other

than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or

receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to

purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (bee) shall not

apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in

conformity with subsection (bee) (3) of this section, and (cee) shall

not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any

State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

* (bee)(3) allows purchase of long gun from out of state FFL, and loan/rental of firearms

So it basically comes down to fact that a handgun can not be legally received for ownership by individual in any state but his own, except via inheritance.

- OS

Edited June 28, 2012 by OhShoot

[Hthunder]

* (bee)(3) allows purchase of long gun from out of state FFL, and loan/rental of firearms

So it basically comes down to fact that a handgun can not be legally received for ownership by individual in any state but his own, except via inheritance.

- OS

So, I can go out of state and buy a shotgun from a dealer but not an individual?

[Oh Shoot]

So, I can go out of state and buy a shotgun from a dealer but not an individual?

That is correct. (assuming the FFL will do it; most will, but they are not compelled to).

There are two or three states, I think all in NE, that have state laws such that folks can only do that in adjoining states, but for the most part you can do it between any two states in the union.

- OS

Edited June 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have bought a pistol from a Kentucky dealer at the show at the Expo Center in Knoxville. After paying for the gun the dealer then told me I needed to have a Tennessee dealer do the transfer. So we walked over a few tables and a Tennessee dealer took possession of the pistol then had me do the paperwork.

It kind of pissed me off at first because the Kentucky dealer never mentioned he was an out of state dealer. It was only after I paid for the gun he said it was mine but he couldn't give it to me. That is when he said his friend would do the transfer, which was $50.

In the end I was happy but the cost of everything together was above what a Tennessee dealer was selling the same gun for. Had I known in the begining the dealer was from Kentucky I would have never purchased it or at least asked a few questions. Makes me wonder how many other customers he snookered that weeked.

Dolomite

[hornett22]

I have bought a pistol from a Kentucky dealer at the show at the Expo Center in Knoxville. After paying for the gun the dealer then told me I needed to have a Tennessee dealer do the transfer. So we walked over a few tables and a Tennessee dealer took possession of the pistol then had me do the paperwork.

It kind of pissed me off at first because the Kentucky dealer never mentioned he was an out of state dealer. It was only after I paid for the gun he said it was mine but he couldn't give it to me. That is when he said his friend would do the transfer, which was $50.

In the end I was happy but the cost of everything together was above what a Tennessee dealer was selling the same gun for. Had I known in the begining the dealer was from Kentucky I would have never purchased it or at least asked a few questions. Makes me wonder how many other customers he snookered that weeked.

Dolomite

Sounds like him and his "friend" had a little scam going.

[DaveTN]

Does the physical location of the sale matter or is it just the residency of the 2 sale participants?

As an example, I know someone who works in Dalton GA and lives in Chattanooga. He works in Dalton with a guy who lives in Cleveland TN.

Could the Chattanooga TN guy sell a gun to the Cleveland TN guy while on their lunch break in Dalton GA?

A Dalton, GA cop drives by and sees two guns handling a handgun at the trunk of a car. He stops and checks it out. He can’t enforce Tennessee law. Therefore the question becomes can a TN resident transfer a handgun to anyone in GA without going through an FFL? No. Your two friends would have to cross the border into Tennessee to be legal.

[MadMarx]

Thanks to everybody for answering. I really appreciate it. That is what I thought, but I was not sure, so I had to ask. Again TGO comes through with great information.

[orientalexpress]

I have bought a pistol from a Kentucky dealer at the show at the Expo Center in Knoxville. After paying for the gun the dealer then told me I needed to have a Tennessee dealer do the transfer. So we walked over a few tables and a Tennessee dealer took possession of the pistol then had me do the paperwork.

It kind of pissed me off at first because the Kentucky dealer never mentioned he was an out of state dealer. It was only after I paid for the gun he said it was mine but he couldn't give it to me. That is when he said his friend would do the transfer, which was $50.

In the end I was happy but the cost of everything together was above what a Tennessee dealer was selling the same gun for. Had I known in the begining the dealer was from Kentucky I would have never purchased it or at least asked a few questions. Makes me wonder how many other customers he snookered that weeked.

Dolomite

According to the guy I worked for the ATF frowns upon this. He claims that he was doing this down in Texas several years back and they suspended his ffl for doing this claiming it needed to be returned and shipped then transferred. Supposedly spent big bucks in court and eventually they agreed to drop it and reinstate his ffl if he agreed not to countersue. Allegedly he spent all the money he could on legal fees as the atfs pockets are much deeper. His defense was that he is a FEDERAL firearms dealer and should be able to sell to whomever. He said they asked well if you believe that then why did you transfer it? His response was bc he didnt know the local laws and wanted to abide by them. Anyways that just what he told me and several other people. I'm sure some of it was left out to paint himself in a good light.

[Oh Shoot]

According to the guy I worked for the ATF frowns upon this. He claims that he was doing this down in Texas several years back and they suspended his ffl for doing this claiming it needed to be returned and shipped then transferred. Supposedly spent big bucks in court and eventually they agreed to drop it and reinstate his ffl if he agreed not to countersue. Allegedly he spent all the money he could on legal fees as the atfs pockets are much deeper. His defense was that he is a FEDERAL firearms dealer and should be able to sell to whomever. He said they asked well if you believe that then why did you transfer it? His reDsponse was bc he didnt know the local laws and wanted to abide by them. Anyways that just what he told me and several other people. I'm sure some of it was left out to paint himself in a good light.

Well, you cite an example, but don't see how they considered it illegal for an FFL to personally place a firearm in another FFL's hands for transfer rather than ship it to him for same. It's not illegal for a private individual to carry a firearm into another state to a FFL to transfer to a resident of that state either.

As a matter of fact, that shop (forgot name -- something "distributors"?) in Georgia next to Chattanooga does this routinely; they personally carry over the state line to deliver the gun to TN pawn shop for transfer while you wait. And that's a pretty big volume as I understand it, dealing with lots of police tradeins and special LEO pricing, very upfront.

Seems to me the only legally iffy part of Dole's transaction comes down to question of simple fraud, ie misrepresenting conditions and total cost of the original sale.

- OS

Edited July 2, 2012 by OhShoot

[gregintenn]

I have bought a pistol from a Kentucky dealer at the show at the Expo Center in Knoxville. After paying for the gun the dealer then told me I needed to have a Tennessee dealer do the transfer. So we walked over a few tables and a Tennessee dealer took possession of the pistol then had me do the paperwork.

It kind of pissed me off at first because the Kentucky dealer never mentioned he was an out of state dealer. It was only after I paid for the gun he said it was mine but he couldn't give it to me. That is when he said his friend would do the transfer, which was $50.

In the end I was happy but the cost of everything together was above what a Tennessee dealer was selling the same gun for. Had I known in the begining the dealer was from Kentucky I would have never purchased it or at least asked a few questions. Makes me wonder how many other customers he snookered that weeked.

Dolomite

I'd have told him he owed the friend $50, or me a refund.

[orientalexpress]

Now that I think about it, where I'm currently working we had a guy that had an FFL buy a gun and we had to ship it to him back home. Honestly I don't remember if that was because of legal reasons or because he didn't want to drive to miami with it or what.