US Army Training In St. Louis City Streets

[scoutfsu]

Ft. Sumter bro

[Moped]

Moped,

I don't consider the National Guard part of the Army Reserves. NG definitely has combat arms units. The Reserves no longer does. The ENG guys are as close as you're going to get to combat arms, then MISO, and pulling up the rear, CA.

Did you draw weapons as a regular part of AT (the whole 2wks) or did you draw them for specific tasks? I know I was overly broad with my post....there's always an exception to the norm. I don't and can't speak for the entire Army....just my experiences. And with the Reserves, that's been limited to the past year that I came off of AD.

I consider the NG as a part of thw whole since they can be Federalized at the whim of the President.

My experience was with the AR. Us Engineers tended to go to the field for AT just about the entire time and we drew our weapons for the field. They started bumping field time up for us in the mid 80's. When we deployed overseas, to Honderus, we drew our weapons as well. When in Panama, we did not though, since Noriega's PDF supplied our security, but we had them locked away in a CONEX box. And of course, during our time in Iraq, we always drew them prior to departing CONUS.

Qualification was done local most of the time, since it was hard to get ranges coordinated at Campbell or Bragg during AT. Especially during the 90's with Units being sent to Bosnia, Panama, and Haiti. We would draw weapons at the center and ammunition at the range, wherever we were qualifing.

Later on when I changed units to a Rifle Training Unit and Competition Shooting for the ARCOM, we were allowed to draw our weapons and keep them with us for practice, even through the Clinton years. We were required to store them in an approved lockable storage unit, like a safe at the house and we drew ammunition for whatever we were shooting. I once transported a rack of M16A2s and a box of M9's to Arkansas to take part in a Tactical Competition, in my POV, under orders, as well. So it's done a lot more than you think.

[R1100R]

_{I consider the NG as a part of thw whole since they can be Federalized at the whim of the President.}

_{My experience was with the AR. Us Engineers tended to go to the field for AT just about the entire time and we drew our weapons for the field. They started bumping field time up for us in the mid 80's. When we deployed overseas, to Honderus, we drew our weapons as well. When in Panama, we did not though, since Noriega's PDF supplied our security, but we had them locked away in a CONEX box. And of course, during our time in Iraq, we always drew them prior to departing CONUS.}

_{Qualification was done local most of the time, since it was hard to get ranges coordinated at Campbell or Bragg during AT. Especially during the 90's with Units being sent to Bosnia, Panama, and Haiti. We would draw weapons at the center and ammunition at the range, wherever we were qualifing.}

_{Later on when I changed units to a Rifle Training Unit and Competition Shooting for the ARCOM, we were allowed to draw our weapons and keep them with us for practice, even through the Clinton years. We were required to store them in an approved lockable storage unit, like a safe at the house and we drew ammunition for whatever we were shooting. I once transported a rack of M16A2s and a box of M9's to Arkansas to take part in a Tactical Competition, in my POV, under orders, as well. So it's done a lot more than you think.}

I also have carried weapons in a POV. All of my units are MP's and some are armed to the teeth. We take all weapons to AT. There is also the new 11th Aviation that has AH-64's that are combat arms. They are a USAR unit. Our CS MP companies have had patrol duties on their current mission's. SOCOM just cited one of my units for pulling a SF A-Team out of a bad jam in Afghanistan. They had a high casualty rate (with loss of life) for such a small unit.

[scoutfsu]

I also have carried weapons in a POV.

That's shocking for me. On AD you would catch, at a minimum, a field grade Art15 for transporting .mil weapons in a POV. I watched a E5 lose his stripes for transporting NODs in the back of his truck from the motor pool to the arms room back in '06. Is there some type of work around or exception to policy that allows the transportation? How are the shooting teams authorized?

I can understand taking weapons to the field if you're living in trucks or on the ground.. I guess it depends on what you do for your AT. I was lucky enough to hang around in a hotel room in San Luis Obispo.

[Dennis1209]

St. Louis has streets that are blocked off at one end by iron gates, barricades in the roads to slow traffic, and speed bumps in resisential areas. Parts of this city resemble a war zone. It is an excellent place to train, besides, at night the crips and bloods come out and add realism to the situation with random gunfire.

Having been shot and nearly killed in a robbery attempt years ago may have tainted my opinion of St. Louis ... but IMHO, the best tourist attraction is seeing the Arch - in your rear view mirror.

sent from my sending device

Tell me about it... I was born and raised in Wellston & Pagedale. Still remember the ole phone number. PA 65789. It went from bad to worse to now. I remember taking street car rides from the White Mill street car hub in Wellston to the river front well before they ever imagined the Gateway Arch.

I always wanted to go back and look at the old neighborhood but, I don't know enough people who own AR-15's to accompany me.

If you don't mind, how about telling us the details of your horrendous experience and how you coped with it?

[Dennis1209]

Not a bad post, except for saying that the Reserves are made up of mostly soft MOS's. In Tennessee, that is not the case. The 278th is an Armored Calvary Reg (NG), based over most of the state and comprised of several thousand members. The 844th Engr BN (CBT)(HV) (AR) is based in East Tennessee and is about 800 strong. There is also the 181st artillery battalion (NG)e early . All these units have seen active service in Iraq and in the case of the 278th and the 844th, multiple tours starting with Desert Storm. And all these units are combat arms units.

I was a member of one of those units and while you are correct that we only drew our weapons for range time, we also drew them for our AT's. And our range times were usually local as well, and not held at Ft. Campbell or Tullahoma.

As for the article. I don't think its anything to get all worked up about. And there have been many cases where the active duty military has been called in to restore order during national emergencies. The 82nd was called into New Orleans after Katrina. The 7th Infantry Division was ordered into LA after the Rodney King beating started riots there. And in Washington DC back in 1932, during what was called the "Bonus War", the Army was used to move some 20,000 veterans and their families, who were protesting the Governments refusal to pay bonuses the veterans had been promised. The troops were under the command of Douglas McArthur and included tanks and calvary, led by none other than George Patton. You can read about it here. http://www.historyne...-washington.htm

Yep, I would have to agree! As a 17 year full time member myself of the 102nd Army Reserve Command (ARCOM), both USAR (weekend warrior) and full time 102nd ARCOM civilian aircraft technician / crew chief, I have seen many musters for training and other activities. I have been ordered and participated in things I thought odd as a federal troop, such as those designated to the state National Guard?

But times, laws and missions are changing to cope with todays changing missions.

Color me soft but, it's a lot of fun flying along at 140 knots in an assault Huey UH-1C with a M-60 machine gun, mini guns and rocket pods. And they called it annual training

Edited June 25, 2012 by Dennis1209

[scoutfsu]

Color me soft but, it's a lot of fun flying along at 140 knots in an assault Huey UH-1C with a M-60 machine gun, mini guns and rocket pods. And they called it annual training

Dennis,

As awesome as that sounds (and I say that with 100% respect and enthusiasm b/c it does sound f'ing awesome ), it still isn't the Infantry/Cav/designated combat arms units. Completely different lifestyle...

I went to MEPS fully intending on going the 15T ('60 guy) route....they scared me away with a minimum 6yr enlistment I'm not trying to sound like I'm beating my chest b/c I have much love for my rotary wing guys. Calling in gun runs on Haj for the '58's was one of my highpoints in Mosul. We all contribute....except S1 people. They can ETADIK until they fix my paperwork and start paying me correctly for the past year

[Moped]

That's shocking for me. On AD you would catch, at a minimum, a field grade Art15 for transporting .mil weapons in a POV. I watched a E5 lose his stripes for transporting NODs in the back of his truck from the motor pool to the arms room back in '06. Is there some type of work around or exception to policy that allows the transportation? How are the shooting teams authorized?

I can understand taking weapons to the field if you're living in trucks or on the ground.. I guess it depends on what you do for your AT. I was lucky enough to hang around in a hotel room in San Luis Obispo.

Now remember, this was from the late 80's though 2000. I'd say the Army has tightened up just what you can and can't do now.

The reason we were allowed to take our competition weapons home, along with the ammunition, was because we were expected to practice on our own time. This was a reserve rifle team, not active. That was the reason given to me when I joined that program. And we had personel scattered all over the the states of Tennessee and Alabama. I was assigned four weapons, a NM M-14, a Winchester 52 .22 target rifle, a Ruger MkII target pistol with a bull barrel and a NM 1911A1.

We were under orders for the Arkansas shooting competition, but we since we had no vehicles assigned to our unit, we were authorized to travel in POVs and carry our weapons with us. We were not authorized ammunition for the movement, expect for the one guard. However, that was not a group of civilian cars you would have wanted to stop and rob. I think there were probably 200+ shooters for that meet and I think just about all of them traveled POV with weapons. Those were fun days!

Edited June 25, 2012 by Moped

[Daniel]

It wasn't specifically directed at you but if the shoe fits.......a better option would be to scroll down to post #8. Then you'll see what I was preemptively talking about.

If you were looking for information on why the Reserves are training in St. Louis, you could've worded it better. The Reserves are soft skill MOS's. About the hardest people they have are the CA and MISO (formerly PsyOps). During the summer, they actively go into the surrounding communities to perform their yearly 2 wk AT. I know this b/c I flew in tonight from CA after my AT time. The Reserves is filled with people who only associate with the Army 2 days a month....hardly the populace assaulting, gun stealing, Constitution burning shock troops the idiot crack pots fear (Coincidentally enough, those same crackpots are almost certain never to have served their country in any military branch ).

I would be VERY, VERY surprised if those guys had any sort of weapons on them. That's not how it works. In the Reserves, you draw your weapons for ranges (typically 1-2 times a year) or specific training events. Not 2wk AT's. Probably not a universal rule, but solid enough.

Primarily made up of students (hence why AT is almost always done during the summer) and other working professionals, they're normal citizens who desire to serve their country within their work/school schedules or wanted to keep their feet wet after leaving active duty (like me). People like to create drama in their own little make believe worlds and read WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY into normal things.

^___^