CLEO Signature issue

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

What do you do in a case where the CLEO refuses to sign off on your form..... because of his views of suppressors and people owning them?

Ofcourse I am talking about being able to legally own one in the state of residence and legally use them for hunting purposes....

The CLEO (county sheriff) is not fond of suppressors and was giving people a hard time about signing off on their form.... This is the home town I am from in West Tn. and one of the persons turned away was my brother.

[Mike]

One more reason for a trust. No fingerprints, no photos, No having to explain why you want to buy something that is legal to own to anyone.

[Chucktshoes]

Considering that there is a state law prohibiting this type of behavior by CLEOs, I think you should name some names here. Might lead to the proper amount of pressure being applied to change the status quo.

[TGO David]

One more reason for a trust. No fingerprints, no photos, No having to explain why you want to buy something that is legal to own to anyone.

This.

[DaveTN]

I’ve never understood this. If it’s illegal for a CLEO to refuse to sign off, why require it? Why not just require a copy be sent registered mail? Don’t the Feds do the background check anyway?

[Guest 270win]

What county is this in? I hope it is not Shelby County or close by.

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

Considering that there is a state law prohibiting this type of behavior by CLEOs, I think you should name some names here. Might lead to the proper amount of pressure being applied to change the status quo.

I know your probably talking about a law in Tn since that is where we are..... Can anyone provide me with the reference material and statute to print off for proof? Does anyone know if it is the same law in other states? I have a friend in WV that has the same situation....

What county is this in? I hope it is not Shelby County or close by.

I hate to name a county just yet, but it is NE of Shelby County and not too close.

[BrasilNuts]

I hate to name a county just yet, but it is NE of Shelby County and not too close.

Well, that just leaves 94 possibilities.

lol

[Dolomite_supafly]

It was signed into law in 2003 that the CLEO has 15 days to sign the request.

39-17-1361. Execution of documents by sheriff or chief of police.

The sheriff or chief of police of the city of residence of a person purchasing any firearm, defined by the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 5845 et seq., shall execute within fifteen (15) business days of any request all documents required to be submitted by the purchaser if the purchaser is not prohibited from possessing firearms pursuant to § 39-17-1316.

Acts 2003, ch. 275, § 1.

You can print this off and attach it to the paperwork:

http://www.state.tn.us/sos/acts/103/pub/pc0275.pdf

If that doesn't work contact the state attorney general and forward the sheriff's name to them. We had a sheriff that refused to sign until they found out the legalities of it through the attorney general. This might be the case here. Maybe your CLEO doesn't realize they are legal.

Dolomite

[Caster]

Yup. Go over his head. Find out who he answers to and start complaining.

[midtennchip]

This is becoming more of an issue in Tennessee than it should be. This is the second county I've heard about this week alone where the sheriff is avoiding his duty. The statute (which is a Tennessee statute, so it does not apply in other states and does not override the NFA requirement to get the signature) referenced above does require the sheriff to sign it, but there is caselaw that says the sheriff can mark out part of the language on the form and then sign it. That will cause the ATF to deny the tax stamp. So, there are ways around it if the CLEO is savvy enough.

Unfortunately, a sheriff really doesn't report to anyone. Sheriffs are elected, so unless you can impeach him or put enough political pressure on him, there's not a whole lot that can be done to force him (assuming bringing that statute to his attention doesn't do it).

[mikegideon]

This is becoming more of an issue in Tennessee than it should be. This is the second county I've heard about this week alone where the sheriff is avoiding his duty. The statute (which is a Tennessee statute, so it does not apply in other states and does not override the NFA requirement to get the signature) referenced above does require the sheriff to sign it, but there is caselaw that says the sheriff can mark out part of the language on the form and then sign it. That will cause the ATF to deny the tax stamp. So, there are ways around it if the CLEO is savvy enough.

Unfortunately, a sheriff really doesn't report to anyone. Sheriffs are elected, so unless you can impeach him or put enough political pressure on him, there's not a whole lot that can be done to force him (assuming bringing that statute to his attention doesn't do it).

Will a trust get him past the hurdle? I have read up on NFA trusts some, but don't recall the specifics of LEO signature. I have already decided to go with a trust when I finally take the leap into NFA items.

[Reservoir Dog]

Will a trust get him past the hurdle? I have read up on NFA trusts some, but don't recall the specifics of LEO signature. I have already decided to go with a trust when I finally take the leap into NFA items.

CLEO signature, fingerprints and photos are not required when using a NFA trust.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Reservoir Dog

[mikegideon]

CLEO signature, fingerprints and photos are not required when using a NFA trust.

Then, I guess I won't ever have this problem

[Dolomite_supafly]

I was told that a trust that is legal in Tennessee may not be legal in other states. Not a concern with most of us but if you move you might find yourself with NFA items that are not on a legal trust.

This is one of the reasons why they assigned examiners to specific states. That way each examiner doesn't need to knew each states laws.

I thought about using a trust but there is no benefit for me. I will always be with my NFA stuff. And when I pass the transfer to my heirs is free.

Dolomite

[Caster]

I've thought about using a trust myself, I just can't see the benefit. I have no heirs. If I died before my wife, she'd take it back to where it was bought and sell it back to them for pennies on the dollar or just call the ATF and be rid of it. She doesn't care about that stuff now. If I'm dead she certainly won't care. No family, no kids, no need for a trust. If I'm wrong I'd like to know.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Caster

[mikegideon]

My main reason for wanting a trust is so someone else can have it in their possession. I don't mind coughing the 500 bucks to minimize all the hassles.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Even with a family and kids the transfer is free after you die.

The only advantage I would see is adding friends and family to the trust so they could use your NFA items without you being present. They can also do what you could with the NFA items like selling them. And for me there isn't a family member outside of my household I would trust with Tic Tac much less my NFA stuff.

There are friends I would trust but very few.

Dolomite

[Caster]

Even with a family and kids the transfer is free after you die.

The only advantage I would see is adding friends and family to the trust so they could use your NFA items without you being present. They can also do what you could with the NFA items like selling them. And for me there isn't a family member outside of my household I would trust with Tic Tac much less my NFA stuff.

There are friends I would trust but very few.

Dolomite

I know exactly what your saying. I've never seen you face to face and I'd still trust you anything I have before I'd let family borrow some used toilet paper.

[bigwakes]

I've thought about using a trust myself, I just can't see the benefit. I have no heirs. If I died before my wife, she'd take it back to where it was bought and sell it back to them for pennies on the dollar or just call the ATF and be rid of it. She doesn't care about that stuff now. If I'm dead she certainly won't care. No family, no kids, no need for a trust. If I'm wrong I'd like to know.

You can adopt me and leave me all the good stuff.

I went with a trust because I'm not sure who would be privy to the information that I have this weapon or that suppressor. I feel better knowing that just me, uncle sam and all the fine folks at TGO know what's in my safe.

[jtmaze]

Crockett or Haywood county. If Crockett I may be of some help. PM with answer if you don't want on thread.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

It was signed into law in 2003 that the CLEO has 15 days to sign the request.

You can print this off and attach it to the paperwork:

http://www.state.tn..../pub/pc0275.pdf

If that doesn't work contact the state attorney general and forward the sheriff's name to them. We had a sheriff that refused to sign until they found out the legalities of it through the attorney general. This might be the case here. Maybe your CLEO doesn't realize they are legal.

Dolomite

Thank you Sir for that info!!!

Even with a family and kids the transfer is free after you die.

The only advantage I would see is adding friends and family to the trust so they could use your NFA items without you being present. They can also do what you could with the NFA items like selling them. And for me there isn't a family member outside of my household I would trust with Tic Tac much less my NFA stuff.

There are friends I would trust but very few.

Dolomite

What if on the slim chance I outlived my wife and we have no kids. Would any NFA items go to the next of my blood kin, say my younger brother.... for free?

Well, that just leaves 94 possibilities.

lol

It is a county just west of the Tn River, east of the Mississippi, and in the northern area of the state.....

[Dolomite_supafly]

It would seem that it would be transferred to the person getting your house or your wife's jewelery providing they are relatives of some sort. I am pretty sure you cannot have it transferred to someone who is not a relative even though they may be getting your stuff. This is for an NFA item that is owned by an individual.

Here is the form to conduct the free transfer:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-5.pdf

I have also heard rumors that the ATF denies these free transfers.

On a trust then all that happens is the physical possession is done to another trustee. No need to do any transfers.

Dolomite

[Major Kong]

One more reason for a trust. No fingerprints, no photos, No having to explain why you want to buy something that is legal to own to anyone.

Exactly. Best money I've spent in a while.

[Dolomite_supafly]

How much was your trust again?

More importantly did the lawyer look at what I sent you?

It might be worth it just to avoid the death hassle transfer.

Dolomite

Edited June 24, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly