125 grain LSWC

[JAB]

Well, I am almost ready to get started reloading, I think. I just need a little advice on load data for the first loads I want to create.

I have HSM 125 grain lead semi wadcutter bullets. They have a solid base (maybe all SWC do or maybe that makes no difference, being new to reloading, I don't know.) I have Accurate No.5 powder, CCI small pistol primers and will be reusing once-fired factory brass (some I have kept from my own revolvers while anticipating reloading.)

The thing is, I can't seem to find .38 Special load data for a 125 grain LSWC and Accurate No.5. I can find data for a 158 grain LSWC and Accurate No. 5 and I can find +P load data for 125 grain jacketed bullets with No. 5.

Surely there has to be a standard pressure .38 Special load using No.5 and a 125 grain LSWC. I know No. 5 uses somewhat 'larger' charges than some, other powders (which is actually part of the reason it was recommended to me, as a beginner, and part of the reason I chose it - larger charges will add another layer of protection against accidental double-charging.)

Based on what I can figure out from the data I am finding, it looks like my starting load should be somewhere around 5.3 grains. I am just looking for a mild to middle of the road practice round. I will be mostly shooting them from my Taurus 66 and my S&W 642. Being that the 66 is a .357 and the 642 is +P rated, I am not too worried that anything even in the neighborhood of a standard pressure .38 will hurt them - even if I am a fraction of a grain too 'generous' in the load data. The thing is, I also have a Colt Police Positive that is not expressly +P rated. It is a late '70s vintage so should be okay for some +P use but I don't want to shoot it loose, etc. by consistently shooting 'hot' loads in it. That said, I certainly don't want to undercharge and end up with a squib, either.

So, anyone got a 'recipe' they'd like to share?

[Patton]

I can't help with the No. 5 but normally the bullet style doesn't matter, only the weight. I would start about 15-20% lighter than the +p recipe and work my way up. The difference between standard and +p is a lot minor than most people suspect. I'm only given this advise for when you do find a load chart you'll have something to check it against. 38 spl is very enjoyable to reload and great to start with.

[JAB]

Thanks for the response. I have a couple of reloading manuals and I printed the load data PDF from the Accurate website. I just couldn't find anything specifically for #5 and a 125 grain LSWC.

Accurate has the start load for a standard pressure load using a 158 grain LSWC at 5.3 grains with the max at 5.9. They have standard pressure using a 125 grain Hornady XTP starting at 6.1 grains with 6.8 as the max. For a 125 grain frangible bullet, standard pressure starts at 5.4 grains and maxes out at 6.0 (strangely, the XTP - for the same weight bullet with a higher powder charge - is shown with a lower velocity than the frangible.) In .38+P, using a 125 grain frangible bullet, the starting load is 5.7 grains with a max of 6.3. Thing is, they list the starting load for a 148 grain full wadcutter at only 3.6 grains with a max of 4.0. Kind of all over the place. But, based on that data and what you said in your reply, I am feeling more confident that 5.3 to 5.4 grains should be plenty safe as a starting point.

ETA: I found the 'contact us' link on their home page (I was going straight to the load data from Google and not seeing the home page then thought to check the home page for a 'contact us' link. Duh.) I sent them a message asking about the load data so maybe I will get something specific from them.

Edited June 21, 2012 by JAB

[Jonnin]

#7 is the actual recommended magnum powder for 357 & 44, if I remember it right, and #5 is middle of the road (it works in them, but is designed for 9mm/.40). Not sure which would be the best for a 38 but both probably work fine in it.

The accurate load data page says a 148 grain wadcutter needs 3.6 grains of #5. A 125 grain frangible takes 5.3 grains. But your wadcutter is pushed in deeper. I would start with less just to be sure, you might drop down to 4 grains and work up from there to be safe if you cannot find data to match your choices. I have not loaded a wadcutter but logically, if the whole round is pushed into the case, it is seated deeper, and if it is that deep, it needs less powder.... so I would start with 3.5 or 4 and see what happens.

You will not get a squib --- I would bet that 1 grain of #5 would at least pop the round out of the barrel. It does not take that much to get it to fall out the end of a barrel; a primer will get 1/3 of the way or more without any powder at all.

Refer to http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

Edited June 21, 2012 by Jonnin

[JAB]

#7 is the actual recommended magnum powder for 357 & 44, if I remember it right, and #5 is middle of the road (it works in them, but is designed for 9mm/.40). Not sure which would be the best for a 38 but both probably work fine in it.

The accurate load data page says a 148 grain wadcutter needs 3.6 grains of #5. A 125 grain frangible takes 5.3 grains. But your wadcutter is pushed in deeper. I would start with less just to be sure, you might drop down to 4 grains and work up from there to be safe if you cannot find data to match your choices. I have not loaded a wadcutter but logically, if the whole round is pushed into the case, it is seated deeper, and if it is that deep, it needs less powder.... so I would start with 3.5 or 4 and see what happens.

You will not get a squib --- I would bet that 1 grain of #5 would at least pop the round out of the barrel. It does not take that much to get it to fall out the end of a barrel; a primer will get 1/3 of the way or more without any powder at all.

Refer to http://www.accuratep...ad_data_3.5.pdf

Thanks, Jonnin. I am actually using a semi wadcutter, though. It has a cannelure and part of the bullet (including the tapered, blunt 'cone') protrudes from the case. I was guessing, however, along the lines of your logic that the 'whole bullet in the case' and no taper thing is why the charge in the load data for the 148 grain full wadcutter is so much lower than the 158 grain semi wadcutter.

This is the bullet I am using:

http://www.sportsman...01332/cat100140

Although the crimping grooves on the ones I have are better defined than the bullet shown in the picture.

Edited June 21, 2012 by JAB

[Jonnin]

Oh, ok. Well then your load sounds reasonably mild and safe to me. If you are concerned, you can still lower it: I would bet that 4 grains will punch paper out to 25 yards without any issues, at the worst might shoot a touch low, but you can always work it up a bit if you do not like the light loads. Lots of room to play with revolvers, since light loads do not jam them!

[JAB]

Cool. The biggest thing I was worried about was going so low I ended up getting squibs. It sounds like that isn't as likely as I had thought - thanks for easing my mind on that.

[Dolomite_supafly]

And getting a bullet stuck in the barrel isn't that bad providing you notice it. I have stuck a lot of bullets in the bore and they all come out easier than a tight fitting cleaning patch. It is when you start stacking them in the bore that you run into problems. I once stuck three 180 grain 30 calibers bullets in a bore, one behind the other. There was no knocking them out so I had to use a LONG drill bit to drill a hole in the first one. Then use a screw attached to a rod to pull them out. It took about 10 seconds to realize my mistake and about 3 hours to correct it. Luckily the bore was fine and it still shot very well afterwards.

Dolomite

[Dave Shooter]

Squibs tend to be less likely with lead bullets as they have less resistance to being pushed out the barell than a jacketed bullet. You were wise to look for data as close to your components as possible. A jacketed 125 is significantly different than a LSWC 125. Heck, even within lead bullets of same weight, different styles can have differences in powder charge range due to taking up different amounts of case capacity and bearing surfaces. Lyman has I believe the most extensive cast bullet data.

Good Luck!

[JAB]

Well, crud! I looked again when I got home and, although I had intended to get Accurate No. 5 when I bought my reloading supplies, I apparently picked up No. 7, instead. I doubt I'd find any load data for standard pressure .38 Special using a non-magnum small pistol primer and Accurate No. 7.

I don't have any magnum small pistol primers, just the non-magnum ones as I wasn't planning on doing any .357 loads to start with. I did get some magnum large pistol primers for the .44. I also got some 'premium' (Hornady XTP) bullets for the .44. I might stop at Gouger Mountain on the way home and see if I can get some magnum small pistol primers and maybe some different bullets in 158 grain and start out with loading .357 (I already called GM about Accurate No. 5 and they are out, right now.) If not, I guess I might end up reloading .44 Magnum as my first effort since I have everything I need to do that. At least I shouldn't have any trouble identifying a good 'recipe' for those.

I am still planning to buy some No. 5 for reloading the .38s but just in case I can't find any in a timely manner, what powders do you guys like for 'middle of the road' .38 Special loads?

Oh, and I also wonder if I will need to lube the Hornady bullets. The SWC I have for the .38 are apparently 'pre-lubed' and have a lube band but I haven't opened the XTP box, yet. I am using carbide dies so I shouldn't need to lube the cases.

Edited June 22, 2012 by JAB

[Dave Shooter]

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I am still planning to buy some No. 5 for reloading the .38s but just in case I can't find any in a timely manner, what powders do you guys like for 'middle of the road' .38 Special loads?

Oh, and I also wonder if I will need to lube the Hornady bullets. The SWC I have for the .38 are apparently 'pre-lubed' and have a lube band but I haven't opened the XTP box, yet. I am using carbide dies so I shouldn't need to lube the cases.

Bullseye is tough to beat for standard 38 Spl loads, but any of the faster pistol powders should work.

You won't need to lube Hornady bullets. Jacketed doesn't use lube and their soft lead swaged bullets are graphite coated IIRC. Take em out of the box and load them.