Shooting low and right with M&P Shield.

[pattywak]

A little background: I am left handed. Before I bought the Shield, I had and daily carried a full size FNX-9, which I shot well with no issues. Now, with this M&P Shield, I have been able to go to the Guns and Leather range a number of times and noticed a pattern emerging. Check the picture of my target:

A few notes about the target:

1. The six targets on the periphery were all shot with deliberate slow fire with the Shield, except the bottom left one which I shot with my friends Glock 22 - the first time I shot a .40 cal pistol. As you can see, the general pattern is low and left, but with the Glock the shots were going where I put the sights during the semi-rapid fire.

2. The bullseye and head areas of the target I used for some failure drill-type exercises, two or three to the body and one to the head from the draw. You can see the general low and right pattern on the bullseye target.

My first guess was that since this Shield is so much thinner than the FNX and the Glock, I am not used to holding it and thus more of my trigger finger is slipping onto the trigger, causing the low and right pattern. For some of the slow shooting on the peripheral targets, I purposefully concentrated on just using the pad of my finger, but it still seemed to be going low and right. I also thought that possibly I am gripping the gun too tightly, since it is only a 2 finger grip as opposed to the full 3 finger grip that I am used to.

Any ideas how I can remedy this? I do some dryfiring practice at home and it never appears that the front sight moves down and to the right when the trigger breaks, but this might be because I'm actually doing something differently when I'm at the range vs just dryfiring at home.

Edited June 26, 2012 by pattywak

[BigK]

try this and note the bottom of the pic (lefties use mirror image)

if you can't see that one well, use this link: http://pistol-training.com/archives/292

[BigK]

my bad, apparently that's the smallest, crappiest picture of a shooting wheel on the Internet and coincidentally the first one I found

[Garufa]

I have a similar problem with my Shield but right-handed style. Shots are consistently to the left, not low but to the left. It's all about trigger finger I believe but it's hard for me to get a proper finger/grip on the it with the nice, but heavy pull.

Have seriously considered an APEX kit if I cannot get the discipline to shoot the thing correctly.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Garufa

[Bad_Bowtie]

[Garufa]

That's the right-handed version so for a lefty like OP, too little trigger finger and tightening the grip or fingers. The tightening part is easy to remedy. Just relax your grip. The blasted finger thing is what wears me out.

[pattywak]

Big K - according to that link, and by mirroring it since I am left handed, I am either tightening my fingers, jerking or slapping the trigger, breaking the wrist down or pushing forward. I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking my wrist down or flinching in anticipation of recoil, so I'm going to guess it's either me tightening my fingers or jerking or slapping the trigger. What does jerking or slapping mean? Do either have to do with too much of the finger on the trigger instead of the pad?

Garufa - the pull is heavier than I expected, and I did think about the apex kit, but I would rather work on my fundamentals first since I'm a relatively new shooter and then look to gear modification. And also, it could be I use TOO LITTLE trigger finger? The last time I was at the range I tried to consciously use the pad of my finger - or is a different technique used because it's a much smaller frame width wise?

Edited June 19, 2012 by pattywak

[Garufa]

Garufa - the pull is heavier than I expected, and I did think about the apex kit, but I would rather work on my fundamentals first since I'm a relatively new shooter and then look to gear modification. And also, it could be I use TOO LITTLE trigger finger? The last time I was at the range I tried to consciously use the pad of my finger - or is a different technique used because it's a much smaller frame width wise?

Get over that pad of the finger BS alot of people preach. That's great on some guns for some people but does not work in all situations on all guns for all people.

If I get up past the first joint of my finger I see far less deviation when dry firing. I need to remember that at the range next time...but the problem is I have no discipline.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Garufa

[Guest kingarmory]

Make sure the tip of your finger is all that is contacting the trigger, on smaller framed guns there is a tendency to get the knuckle on the trigger as well.

[pattywak]

Get over that pad of the finger BS alot of people preach. That's great on some guns for some people but does not work in all situations on all guns for all people.

If I get up past the first joint of my finger I see far less deviation when dry firing. I need to remember that at the range next time...but the problem is I have no discipline.

I figured that it wouldn't apply for all people, especially those with bigger hands or longer fingers because trying to get the pad on the trigger would be near impossible for them.

Make sure the tip of your finger is all that is contacting the trigger, on smaller framed guns there is a tendency to get the knuckle on the trigger as well.

Would this be making sure it's just the pad of the finger? I could tell during some shots that my finger was slipping more towards the knuckle on the trigger. Next time I'm at the range I will make a serious effort to isolate my finger and make sure it's not the knuckle pulling the trigger.

[peejman]

I have a periodic problem shooting low left. I've traced it to squeezing too much with my support hand. Both squeezing it during trigger press, and just plain holding on too tight. When my hits start moving low left, I have to force myself to relax my support hand and the hits come back on target.

[pattywak]

I have a periodic problem shooting low left. I've traced it to squeezing too much with my support hand. Both squeezing it during trigger press, and just plain holding on too tight. When my hits start moving low left, I have to force myself to relax my support hand and the hits come back on target.

I didn't think of that. I might be unconsciously doing that when I shoot because I'm trying to "hold onto" the gun more since it's smaller. Will add that to the list of things to check out. Thanks for that!

[peejman]

I didn't think of that. I might be unconsciously doing that when I shoot because I'm trying to "hold onto" the gun more since it's smaller. Will add that to the list of things to check out. Thanks for that!

I discovered it when I tried some old fashioned bulls-eye shooting.... one handed, arm straight out sideways. My groups were noticeably smaller than with both hands.

[pattywak]

I'll try that bulls-eye shooting next time I'm at the range. So shooting one handed improved your groupings? Were you able to work out your two-handed grip?

[BigK]

I discovered it when I tried some old fashioned bulls-eye shooting.... one handed, arm straight out sideways. My groups were noticeably smaller than with both hands.

Great point, peejman. I read somewhere (I think it was an AMU article) that these shooters wheels are only created to diagnose flaws during bullseye shooting (i.e. one handed). So, now that you got me thinking about it, they can't really tell you what you're doing wrong with your support hand, right?

At best, the support had is probably mitigating some of the errors we're making with our shooting hand.

[peejman]

I'll try that bulls-eye shooting next time I'm at the range. So shooting one handed improved your groupings? Were you able to work out your two-handed grip?

What it boiled down to was me trying to shoot too fast... practicing double taps and such. Squeezing really hard helps reduce the amount the gun comes off target during recoil and shooting fast is all about keeping the gun on target... so why not squeeze the frickin' life out of it, right? Now that I know what the problem is, I can mitigate it to some extent. It still pops up when I'm trying to go fast.

Great point, peejman. I read somewhere (I think it was an AMU article) that these shooters wheels are only created to diagnose flaws during bullseye shooting (i.e. one handed). So, now that you got me thinking about it, they can't really tell you what you're doing wrong with your support hand, right?

At best, the support had is probably mitigating some of the errors we're making with our shooting hand.

That's a good point too... the basic principles are the same, but I suspect that the simple wheel diagram would be too complex to use effectively if it included effects both hands.

[Guest 270win]

You are not squeezing the trigger smoothly.

[Guest No Ammo]

Which M&P Shields do you all own, (9MM or 40cal)

I just came from G&L today, fired 100 rounds of 40cal. Remington target ammo today,

All I can say is wow!

This little pistol is very accurate and easy to shoot,

I thought the recoil might be nasty, but it's not bad at all...

Also, I found it to be very sensitive to bad technique, If I dotted my i's & crossed my t's it was very accurate

Edited June 29, 2012 by No Ammo

[pattywak]

I have the 9mm shield. I was also worried about how recoil would be because I had never shot a small frame pistol before, but it wasn't as bad as I had made it out to be.

And as far as squeezing the trigger smoothly - I thought I have done a pretty good job of that in the past, I can shoot my FNX and my friend's Glock just fine, but maybe it's because this trigger is a little heavier / different design that I am now showing problems.

From what I can gather, the two most probably things that I am messing up are:

1. The trigger manipulation

2. Something with my grip ( strong hand or off hand )

I am going to shoot on Saturday and I'll report back how it goes. Thanks to everyone for the help!

[BigK]

I hope you get it figured out. I know I enjoy my trips to the range more when I'm practicing instead of diagnosing issues.

Have fun & shoot str8

---

I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?fvjfa3

[pattywak]

Update! I made it to the range yesterday, and I made a double conscious effort to work on a smooth, constant trigger pull and to keep my grips relaxed. The first 50 rounds I went through were more of the same, but the second target and second set of 50 rounds the groups began to tighten up and straighten out! I need to get more practice for sure but I think the most contributing factor is the trigger pull. A heavier trigger than I'm used to and a smaller grip frame lead me to jerking the trigger or not applying constant, straight backwards pressure, thus throwing my shots.

Can't wait to get out there and work on it some more. I'm so glad that this seems to be turning out to be something wrong with me, rather than the gun. I think next time I'll ask one of the guy working to take some shots with the gun also to see how their shots look to completely rule out it being the gun.

[Jonnin]

good!

I just now found the thread and was going to say that shooting heavy trigger guns leads to pulling the trigger so hard and using so much hand muscle that you cannot keep the gun on target. If your hands and wrists are strong you can train out of it, but the issue is: if you ever change guns, you have to retrain all over again. I have very similar problems with my nano, which has a terribly harsh trigger in a small frame, with similar results. I could probably train to overcome it, but, then I would miss with all my other, and superior, pistols.... so I just chunked it in a strategic location in the house for emergency use only.

[pattywak]

Yeah, I feel like the heavier trigger and the smaller frame has a lot to do with it. I don't think that becoming proficient with a heavy trigger will cause you to shoot poorly with your other pistols, but YMMV.