BP Percussian paper cartridges

[Mark@Sea]

After reading several threads on it, and having little to occupy my evenings, I decided to try making paper cartridge black powder revolver loads.

I'm definitely a beginner, but here are some first impressions;

Don't buy your lead balls from Bass Pro if you can avoid it. Here, at least, a box of 100 .375 balls cost me $15 before tax! The .454's were $19.95 a box, which sort of decided which caliber I'd try this with.

MTM Case Guard reloading boxes make dandy and inexpensive trays for this sort of thing, allowing you to both assemble in assembly line fashion, and store the completed cartridges.

First time in my life I ever bought cigarette rolling papers. I had to ask which sort were the gummed variety, and the guy behind me at the convenience store got quite a chuckle when I bought 5 packs. JOB (or maybe it is J<> 1.5's are too wide for .36 caliber. You need to cut off at least 25% of the width (parallel with the gum line).

Several threads mentioned using a wooden dowel as a forming tool for the cartridge. I don't have one on hand here, but found that a standard issue skil-craft govt. retractable pen works well. Remove the lower barrel of the pen, cut off the reduced diameter threaded portion, affix the remainder pointed up. The ball will sit on the pen barrel, allowing you to wrap the paper around it. The pen forms the paper into a usable diameter tube.

Moistening the paper is best done with a damp towel or sponge. Moisten does NOT mean soak.

More info later, and maybe some pictures, as I get this figured out.

[Mike.357]

Mark are you doing this using only powder and ball? Or are you using a filler as well like corn meal? I am pretty sure I read somewhere to not use a lubed wad as it may contaminate the powder.

looking forward to pics

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, I'm not using filler, or even powder yet. I don't have any powder here. Last night I rolled a dozen of them. This afternoon I'll pick up a can of powder, I hope, but I don't figure to use filler. I found a reference where the guy was shooting for accuracy trying different variables, and the filler didn't make enough difference to be worth it. That was his result, anyway. As I don't have a cylinder here to see how much filler can be used and still fit, I'm going to skip it for now.

The cartridge box I bought will allow me to make up a hundred tubes ahead of time, and fill them later. Gives me something to do at the hotel this week.

I couldn't find 36 caliber wads, so right now, no, not using them. I've been thinking about the whole process, though, and have a couple ideas. First, I am pretty sure I can build a fixture (slotted tray and dowel) to make the tubes easier/faster to roll and more consistent. Second, I have about five pounds of natural beeswax at home, and was thinking that with a .36 punch, I could cut out thin slices. The idea is to roll the ball in beeswax to give it better adhesion to the paper, then a very thin slice of wax, then wad, then another thin slice of wax between wad and powder area. This should protect the powder, allow use of a wad, and provide more strength to the paper tube.

The question here is will the beeswax contaminate the powder... and the way to find out is to build two or three like this, get 'em warm enough to make the wax soft and see if they'll go bang. I figure if it gets hot enough to melt the wax, its' liable to be going bang anyway.

[Mike.357]

I started using filler mostly to get the ball closer to the end of the cylinder. This means I do not need as much Crisco.

I have not really noticed accuracy differences with or without filler.

I have never used wads or wax in my revolvers. Not sure how they work. I am thinking if I was going to leave a percussion revolver loaded for self defense I would want to use a dry wad under the ball to help protect the powder and chain fires. I doubt I would use Crisco for this scenario either. Not much reason to worry about keeping fouling soft for this use. I am not sure of why anyone would use a percussion pistol for self defense unless they had no access to a cartridge gun.

I bet you will get pretty good with the paper cartridges after some practice.

Are you twisting the end after placing the ball down the newly formed paper tube and leaving the other end open for placing powder?

[Mark@Sea]

I'll try to post pictures this evening - the ball sits on the upright pen barrel, I moisten the entire circumference of the ball and the paper extending above it, then twist. I clipped a few twists short, but decided to leave it alone until after I charge with powder and close the other end, so I'd have a little extra strength to keep the powder from forcing the ball out while I shake it down and close.

Anyway, once it is dry, I turn the whole thing ball-down, hold the ball and pull the pen barrel out, and drop it into the cartridge box 'mouth' up, ready for filling.

I tried the oxyoke wonder-wads (lubed) last time I was home. They work quite well. Barrel wasn't really fouled and was easy to clean. Also the wads can be pushed in with a fingertip, so my loading sequence was powder-wad all 6, tamp all 6 with the loading lever, and then ball, tamp all 6. Went quick, no worries about powder spilling, and a lot less juggling of flask/balls.

[Marswolf]

I'm not familiar with making BP pistol cartridges. I've made a pile of rifle ones though.

[Mark@Sea]

NO joy on the pictures, my camera is dead.

Picked up a can of 3f this afternoon, and have made a couple of modifications to my procedure:

Fold the paper lengthwise almost in half, then cut and discard the smaller piece.

Holding the pen barrel vertical with one hand, first place the ball on it, then wrap the paper around ball and barrel with about 1/2 inch of the paper above the ball.

Moisten the paper where it touches the ball and above, twist the small (upper end).

Pull the paper/ball off the pen barrel, put them into the cartridge tray, ball down.

Do a dozen or two, by then the first one you did will be dry. Pour in your charge (I'm using 20 grains), grasp the paper and gently bounce it up and down (still in the tray) to settle the powder.

Pull the cartridge out, trim about 3/8's of an inch above the powder line.

Holding the cartridge by the ball, use something to fold the open end of the cartridge down - 3 folds - then moisten along the gum line and the folded end. Give it a few seconds for the paper to have some adhesion, then place back in the tray, ball up.

With the cartridge ball end up, the weight of the ball will keep pressure on the flapped bottom end of the cartridge until it is well and truly dry.

See that twist of paper above the ball? Leave it there. It makes a dandy handle to grab the cartridge and pull it out of the tray when you want to load up. I don't think that little twist of paper will make a rats patootie difference in accuracy one way or the other.

Recap: Ball end of cartridge twisted, powder end folded flat. Don't cut the twist. Don't worry too much about getting the powder a little moist, it'll work just fine when it dries again.

[Mike.357]

Mark I have been thinking about your paper cartridges.

One thing I thought of is can you load them in the revolver without removing the cylinder?

If so you will be good to go. If not you need a cylinder loading platform. I do not recall this consideration coming up. It may well work fine but I dunno.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, I should be able to - I'll find out when I get home.

Reading another board, something that came up was using nitrated paper. Sounds like the way to go, but I don't have the setup (here in the hotel) to do it.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Mark@Sea

[Mike.357]

aren't cigarette papers nitrated?

Just for kicks burn one of the rolling papers. i am thinking they will burn very evenly.

[Mark@Sea]

They do burn evenly, but they aren't nitrated... nitrated papers go up with a flash.

We'll see how the folded bases do, I made a dozen last night.

[Mike.357]

I follow you now.

You may need to poke the nipple hole once you have the cylinder loaded, but other than that I bet it works fine.