Trauma Kit

[TMF]

Quick Clot. I got some from a friend who was a Marine. It does work. There's more than one soldier that owes his life to that little packet.

On the battlefield yes. In an environment where you might not see a higher care facility for some time and there is a major bleed I would use it, but unless you're camping or something I don't see it paying off. It does a lot of damage to tissue. Stuffing those hard to reach bleeds with curlex and applying a pressure bandage will work just as well if not better. Quick clot is not the answer most of the time even on the battlefield. It does work though; it comes at a price.

[Caster]

On the battlefield yes. In an environment where you might not see a higher care facility for some time and there is a major bleed I would use it, but unless you're camping or something I don't see it paying off. It does a lot of damage to tissue. Stuffing those hard to reach bleeds with curlex and applying a pressure bandage will work just as well if not better. Quick clot is not the answer most of the time even on the battlefield. It does work though; it comes at a price.

I can see that. In an environment where there is no higher care facility, SHTF and such, I told my wife to just let me bleed out. You can't really fix a sucking chest wound on the dining room table. Bleeding out seems less tormenting than lingering for days while infection tears you a new one.

[Guest bkelm18]

Cayenne pepper

http://herballearning.com/cayenne-stops-bleeding/

So there are paramedics carrying cayenne pepper?

[TMF]

I can see that. In an environment where there is no higher care facility, SHTF and such, I told my wife to just let me bleed out. You can't really fix a sucking chest wound on the dining room table. Bleeding out seems less tormenting than lingering for days while infection tears you a new one.

Yeah, I wouldn't advise against having it but I would highly discourage using it unless absolutely necessary.

[Reservoir Dog]

Anybody have any experience using Celox as an alternative to QuikClot?

It was recommended to me by an Army medic, as Celox doesn't have the heat/tissue damage issues of QuikClot.

[TMF]

Anybody have any experience using Celox as an alternative to QuikClot?

It was recommended to me by an Army medic, as Celox doesn't have the heat/tissue damage issues of QuikClot.

I haven't used Celox, but from what I understand it is supposed to be similar to the dressings made with shellfish called "hemcon" bandages or "shrimp dressings". I haven't used the Celox, but the similar technology of the hemcon worked fine for folks without shellfish allergies. I never saw it in a pour packet form, only dressing form. It works well on stopping bleeds, but you gotta get your fingers in there so that the material bonds with the blood vessel and hold pressure for a good minute, otherwise it will just bond with whatever tissue is around it making it that much harder to get to the bleed. If they have it in a pourable form that is better, but your still gonna have to get it to the bleed if it is deep and there isn't much access to it (ie: bullet hole). Otherwise it will just bond with everything near the surface and do nothing to stop the bleeding. In fact, if it gels enough at the surface you may not see anymore outward evidence of a bleed such as bright red blood. What you will notice is severe swelling from all the blood that is filling up internally.

I've heard one account from a medic that saw a patient that was treated in the field by his fellow Marines where they had simply applied the whole dressing to the outer part of wounded leg and didn't get it in there, so the bandage just bonded with some of the exposed flesh near the surface and did nothing for the internal arterial bleed. So you need to know how to properly use your equipment.

Edited June 22, 2012 by TMF 18B

[RichardR]

We aren't talking about someone with a cut on their hand.

It's less refusing to be sterile and more a time issue. The more time you wait while you scrub up the more blood that person loses. They only have a finite supply so every second you waste is costing them blood they can not afford to lose.

Me personally, I'm gloving up to protect myself, not the patient. They can fix infection at the hospital relatively easy. Keep the blood in the hurt guy, keep them from going into hypovolemic shock, keep them from exsanguinating. Time is the game, quick the word.

Mike

Mike, I understand what you are saying but I am not talking about a "cut on the hand" either.

Let me see if I can clarify what I was trying to say in my ealier posts, my trauma bag is also equiped to deal with other types of serious injuries, beyond what my FAK's are equiped to deal with, serious injuries such as say a compound fracture, which might not be life threatening in and of itself, unless of course it goes septic.

I am also assuming that since this is the survival & preparedness forum that "just fix the infection at the hospital" might not be an option, so I've made prevention of potential infection through sterilizaiton/disinfection a priority, I also keep a small supply of wide spectrum antibiotics in my medical supplies, but I am not sure if they would be enough for say a Hurricane Katrina type event, where emergency services are interupted for weeks or God forbid even months, but they (coupled with proper sterilization/disinfection) are the best I can do at the moment.

I hope that cleared up any confusion as to why I set up my trauma bag the way I did.

[Mike]

Anybody have any experience using Celox as an alternative to QuikClot?

It was recommended to me by an Army medic, as Celox doesn't have the heat/tissue damage issues of QuikClot.

Quickclot hasn't had any products that produce an exothermic reaction out in quite some time. The older granule type product was notorious for getting hot. The new sponges and impregnated gauzes don't cause any tissue damage or get hot at all.

I hope that cleared up any confusion as to why I set up my trauma bag the way I did.

I understand where you're coming from. I thought we were discussing vehicle med bags and their use in first responder type situations. Obviously situation dictates tactics and being in an austere environment far from proper care, keeping things clean can help. An accident on the side of the road is less likely to have those requirements though. I've seen wounds come in packed with dirt and rocks as that was all that was available at hand to get pressure to the depth needed to obtain hemostasis.

Mike

[TMF]

Quickclot hasn't had any products that produce an exothermic reaction out in quite some time. The older granule type product was notorious for getting hot. The new sponges and impregnated gauzes don't cause any tissue damage or get hot at all.

Mike

My quick clot is horribly outdated then. I want the new stuff. Last I put it one in a patient it was two years ago and it was the hot stuff we were issued.

[Reservoir Dog]

Quickclot hasn't had any products that produce an exothermic reaction out in quite some time. The older granule type product was notorious for getting hot. The new sponges and impregnated gauzes don't cause any tissue damage or get hot at all.

Hmm. I knew they changed the formula, but I thought the newer version still had some exothermic qualities. I'll have to give it another look.

I haven't used the Celox, but the similar technology of the hemcon worked fine for folks without shellfish allergies.

Glad you mentioned that. I knew Celox was made from chitosan, but I never dawned on me about using on people with shellfish allergies. It would suck to use it on someone to keep them from bleeding out, only to put them into anaphylaxis.

[pitt2magic]

Mike is correct, the current quick clot produces no heat. As for who ever said they say no need for it outside of the battlefield heres a personal example. I keep my swat medic bag packed and ready. My neighbors father in law came over to play with his grandkids and ended up falling in the yard hitting his head on a large rock knocking himself unconscience for a short time. He was pouring blood from a head laceration. I tried direct pressure for quite some time but he had cut an artery and I couldn't get it stopped. I pulled out a quick clot gauze and applied pressure for about one minute and the bleeding had stopped and we were able to suture the laceration. The stuff works and it has many other applications than just battle wounds.

[dieewigeteufel]

I don't know your budget, but....http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MHR-316

[RobertNashville]

I am not looking for a SHTF scenario kit. This is not really for a BOG or for what people think of as survival situations. I am wanting something that I can use to stabilize prior to going to or awaiting transport to a facility.

I frequently find myself in situations that the sexy things could be needed if stuff goes wrong. I guess some of such situations could be avoided, but I would also hate to need the sexy things and not have them. To be honest with you, if I could afford an AED, I would carry one of those in my truck too. Obviously, they would not serve much purpose in a SHTF scenario either.

If you are looking for something that comes pretty complete as is, this is what I carry in both my vehicles: http://www.amazon.co...42366046&sr=1-7

"Adventure Medical" makes many different kinds of kits from fairly inexpensive on up.

I also add some QuickClot and/or a Trauma Readiness Pack from OnDutyUSA.com

I can't really comment whether these are substantially "better" or not or "better for the money" or not than some other kits or building your own but it's been sufficient for my needs (I've used in the past to help some car accident victims, etc.).

Edited July 15, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Mike]

I don't know your budget, but....http://www.cheaperth...product/MHR-316

That's a waste of money. Lot's of unnecessary and superfluous items and it's expensive to boot.

Mike

[DaveS]

I can see that. In an environment where there is no higher care facility, SHTF and such, I told my wife to just let me bleed out. You can't really fix a sucking chest wound on the dining room table. Bleeding out seems less tormenting than lingering for days while infection tears you a new one.

I agree, but what good do you do when you can't at least "advise" those you love?

[gjohnsoniv]

That's a waste of money. Lot's of unnecessary and superfluous items and it's expensive to boot.

Mike

I think that depends on the intended situation/use. Edited July 17, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Mike]

I would look at some of these kits over the cheaper than dirt one.

http://shop.thetacti...MED-KITS_c2.htm

Much higher quality and a much better value.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mike

[Guest vca2004]

Maybe you can start with a tactical med kit and expand it with the other items you want:

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/store/Products_Detail.php?ProductID=52

http://www.promedkits.com/tactical_medic.html

http://www.galls.com/search;jsessionid=61147C262C56CEBAE07FD956158D6200?searchaction=2&attributename=Medical+Kits+%26+Supplies+Product+Type&attributevalue=Tactical+Trauma+Kits&path=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3DVenture_id%3D503185%2F%2F%2F%2FMedical+Supplies%2F%2F%2F%2FMedical+Kits

[stahlmangc]

I use the Recon Mountaineer TC3-v2 combat lifesaver bag with some extras. Below is just an example. Found mine on eBay.

Price

$199.95

Summary

USGI Combat Lifesaver Bag TC3-V2 CLS Bag Full or Empty

Buy Online

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Details

USGI Combat Lifesaver Bag TC3-V2/CLS

These are the very newest version and issued only to a few select medics in the US Army. The bags that are issued full are called the MES/CLS bag. The empty bags are just the CLS. Full bag NSN#6545-01-572-9963. Empty bag NSN# 6545-01-574-8111. VERY rare and difficult item to find. Very limited supplies. While supplies last the full bags are $199.95 (compare elsewhere if you can even find them for over $400!) and the empty bags are $99.95** (compare elsewhere for $139.95).** We also have a few of the full bags with all supplies but no sling strap full bags/no sling strap $159.95. The bags are the newest version (2009) with improved cargo-carrying capacity over the 2005 version (which was the TC3-V1). Bags in photo's are sample pictures of the (limited quantity) bags for sale here, not stock photos.

**Currently out of stock of the CLS/No contents bag. This can change weekly.

The patented TC3®-V2/CLS (or MES for supplied bags) are Combat Casulaty Care Bag version 2 and they were specifically designed by Recon Mountaineer®, LLC Products for the U.S. Army designated Army Combat Lifesavers. It was designed as a First Responder system that ensures the right amount and type of equipment is carried and utilized.

Features and Specifications:

"Sling' type strap/carry system that enables it to be worn around the waist or over the shoulder. Can be configured to right or left handed medics. Extra wide strap makes the pack very comfortable and secure to wear. Can easily be shifted or worn to front position enabling contents to be accessed with ease and speed. The four connecting points/straps enable custom configuration and positioning including, front, back like a fanny pack or right or left sling position as described above. (This is the strap that is missing on the packs listed under 'no sling strap but full of contents' that you may select as an option in your shopping cart.)

Outside zipper, snap with velcro fold out pocket where scissors are often stored for easy access

Four interior locations allow for careful configuration and ease of access to necessary emergency first responder supplies

Two exterior locations

Limited Supply of Full Bags includes the following contents:

Blanket Survival Blizzard Pack Reflexcell Military Green Qty = 1 NSN# 6532-01-524-6932

Splint Universal Alum 36" O/A LG 4.25W Gray & Olive Drab Reuse Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-494-1951

Adhesive Tape Surgical Porous Woven 3" x 10 Yards Qty = .25 or 1 roll NSN# 6510-00-926-8884

Bandage Muslin Compressed Olive Drab 37 x 37 x 52" Traing. W/Sfty Pins Qty = 3 NSN#6510-00-201-1755

Blanket Heating Disposable 90 x 90 cm Water Repellent 8S Qty = 1 NSN#6532-01-525-4062

Leash Shears Trauma Black High Break Strength Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-540-7226

Tourniquet Combat Application ONe-Handed Qty = 2 NSN# 6515-01-521-7976

Pad Isopropyl Alcohol Impregnated NonWVN Cotton/Rayon White 200S Qty = 6 NSN#6510-00-786-3736

Marker Tube Type Fine Tip Black Permanent No Odor Dries Instantly Qty = 2 NSN# 7520-00-312-6124

Nasal Trumpet 28FR Sterile Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-529-1187

Shield Eye Surgical Fox Single Natural Aluminum 12S Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-449-1016

Needle Decompression Device 14GA by 3.12IN Qty = 2 NSN#6515-01-541-0635

Bandage Kit Elastic Qty = 2 NSN#6510-01-492-275

Dressing Chest Seal Wound 8 x 6" Rectangular Sterily in Poly... Qty = 2 NSN#6510-01-757-0300

Bandage Gauze Cotton y6 Ply White 4.5" Wide 4.1 yrds long Qty = 1 NSN# 6510-01-503-2117

Bandage Elastic Flesh Rolled Nonsteril 6" x 4.5 Yrds 10S Qty = 1 NSN#6510[-00-935-5823

Bandage Kit Elastic Abdominal Wound F/Trauma Kit Qty = 1 NSN# 6510-01-532-6656

Bandage Gauze Impregnated 3" x 4Yrd Kaolin Hemostatic Quick Clot Qty = 2 NSN# 6510-01-562-3325

Glove Patient Examining & Treatment Latex/Powder free Qty = 4 NSN# 6515-01-525-1975

Leash Shears Trauma Black High Break Strength Qty = 1 NSN # 6515-01-540-7226

Strap Cutter, Combat (includes case) Qty = 1 NSN# 4240-01-568-3219

Scissors Bandage 7.25" Lg Ang to Hdl 1.5" Cut LG Blunt Pts Crs Qty = 1 NSN#6515-00-935-7138

[EMTRN]

The best thing you could do is get training. You can use household items to accomplish most of what you can do with these trauma kits.

[thundersnow]

http://www.laruetactical.com/first-aid-kit-pouch

Not a bad kit for the car...

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

Common things people want in a first aid kit that they don't need. This isn't aimed at any specifically, just in general.

1. Suture - You will not suture anything in the field. It will need to be thoroughly cleaned before suturing and unless you plan on bringing plenty of irrigation/soap and are not going to be able to get to a hospital for awhile. you just wont do it. add in the fact that if you don't have a local anesthetic or sterile instruments you won't be doing the person any favors

2. IV supplies - Really? You think you'll be able to start an IV? There is an art to starting an IV and it is hard enough for the people that have been educated how to start IVs, much less someone with no formal training or experience. I teach paramedic and nursing students how to start IVs and it is by no means as simple as picking up a catheter and putting it in a vein. On top of that you'll need to carry fluid and tubing with it.

3. 14g needles for decompression. Again...Really? Could you really even diagnose a tension pneumo?

Gauze, bandaids, benedryl, ibuprofen, tylenol, peroxide, a tq, clotting agent, and MAYBE a npa/opa. everything else is pretty much overkill

Edited September 23, 2012 by Pineapple Devil

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

Cayenne pepper

http://herballearnin...stops-bleeding/

can you link me to some peer reviewed research literature that shows studies for this? that is how things are tested in the real world...studies

and id like to see the studies that say cayenne pepper equalizes the your intravascular space to the barometric pressure outside and that stops bleeding. that is just plain silly

Edited September 23, 2012 by Pineapple Devil

[Guest SiriusJones]

http://www.imsplus.com/first-aid-kits-equipment-manuals-and-more/tactiacl-trauma-kit.html

This is what I keep in my trunk.