Sigh.......

[mcurrier]

Oh yea fer sure this is olympic gold medal, world class pandering and vote-buying. Possibly world record pandering which may take decades to surpass.

But truth be told, old G. W. Bush would have done exactly the same thing if he thought he could have got away with it. So would Jeb. McCain might criticize it just because a democrat did it, but you know dang well that McCain would have gladly done the same thing if he figgered folks would stand for it. Romney will say bad things about it because a democrat did it, but I'll lay odds that Romney thinks it is the right thing to do as well.

All the libtards thought G.W. was incredibly right-wing, but G.W. lost approval over time because all the right wingers got disgusted for such as his amnesty positions. People to the left of center didn't like G.W. and the 30 percent over on the far right didn't like G.W. after they got to know him, so the only ones who approved was that narrow little 20 percent slightly to the right of center.

Exact same thing is happening to Obama. Nobody to the right of center likes him. The farthest left 30 percent think Obama is a conservative sellout (though they are just now getting brave enough to say so, for fear of being racists). So Obama only has that narrow little 20 percent slightly to the left of center.

But there is something about all those suckers, they all like to bring in as many ferriners as possible. Democrats to pump up the vote, and republicans to suppress the wage, most likely.

Now open borders are a standard part of the Libertarian platform as well, Has been for years because open borders are an entirely logical conclusion of Libertarian tenets. In an ideal world open borders are a great idea. In an ideal world free trade no tariffs anywhere are a great idea. So let me know when we get that ideal world.

Lots of the R and D leaders just think its the right thing to do. Maybe they are right. Can't quite agree with em at the moment. Not til we get that ideal world where it will make perfect sense.

Lester, Lester, Lester...

Who cares what XYZ "would" have done, the problem is the current idiot and what he is doing. He has made the other two branches of govt. effectively null-and-void, and even the fourth non-official watchdog branch of govt. (the press) has been destroyed because they can't find any "news" to report other than what they create and make up to prop up their naked and witless emperor.

[mcurrier]

Was under the impression that in the past, foreign spouses of USA citizens were basically "automatic shoo-ins"? Do you know when it started becoming a bureaucratic nightmare?

Must be George Bush's fault.

Of course the gov is very talented at making big expensive hassles. Except for criminals who ignore the law, apparently.

Like Obama?

[mcurrier]

By the time it's all said and done we'll easily have 10k in this.

Any time I hear any thing about amnesty for Illegal Aliens I start to see red.

I hate the term Illegal Immigrants.

+1,000,000

[mcurrier]

Work permits are not citizenship. Maybe the Feds want them to register so they know where to go pick them up after Obama is gone so they can deport them.

Always the devil's advocate optimist, huh Dave?

We created this through our greed and it will be our downfall.

Is that a quote from "Rev." Wright, Al Sharpton or Farrakhan?

[mcurrier]

Obama Amnesty Plan: Catch, Release, Vote

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/06/15/obama_amnesty_plan_catch_release_vote

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lester, Lester, Lester...

Who cares what XYZ "would" have done, the problem is the current idiot and what he is doing. He has made the other two branches of govt. effectively null-and-void, and even the fourth non-official watchdog branch of govt. (the press) has been destroyed because they can't find any "news" to report other than what they create and make up to prop up their naked and witless emperor.

Hi mccurrier

I complain about GWB because GW did mess some thangs up. He ain't the lone ranger. I can complain just as heavily about every prez since I started paying attention in the 1960's, including the present po excuse for a prez. I'm a world class complainer deserving of a gold medal. Tain't no big thang, some people's got the knack.

The point I'm trying to make-- Open borders with people traipsing over the border to lowball jobs, collect welfare, and vote in our elections, is virtually inevitable given the leadership in both parties. I don't much like the prospect but folks who don't like it can't do a dam thing about it in the long run.

Now me, I'd pay local police a bounty on the illegals they happen to turn up while persuing normal local duties. A jobs program hiring people to drive the deportation buses. I would faithfully maintain every one of the illegal aliens' god-given rights to appeal-- After they are back in their own country. They can appeal til the cows come home at their local USA embassy. Just can't do it on this side of the border. Now due to budgetary limitations it might take 10 or 20 years for an appeal to go thru the chain of command, but on the other hand it is well known that bureaucracy is incapable of running in anything except low gear.

The smart people say we can't deport em all so we have to let em stay. Hogwash. There are 50 states and 365 days in the year. If each state can turn up 100 illegals per day then we can ship off 1.8 million illegals per year. Sure it would take a few years but so what. If each state can only turn up 50 illegals per day then it would only be 900,000 per year. If you help fund the program by seizing USA assets of the deportees, then a lot of them might go home of their own accord so they can keep their stuff. The employed ones who go home free up USA jobs. The unemployed ones who go home free up welfare and food stamps funds. Industries which rely on cheap labor will have to pay a higher wage and the cost of services will be passed on to consumers, but on the other hand the unemployment rate will be lower so people will better be able to afford the product. It ain't right to run an economy based on slave-wage regardless where a feller came from. No I'm not talking about wage controls or unions. I'm talking about supply and demand in the labor market.

====

Anyway if Romney wins he is most likely to decide between a couple of paths that eventually lead to the same destination--

1. Act like he's getting real tough on the border and give speeches about how nobody's gonna break the law, while also cooperating with the amnesty factions of both parties to "reform" the law so that about anybody and his cousin can come in here and stay as long as he pleases and enjoy all benefits of citizenship even if he is not classified an "official citizen". This will agree completely with his "law and order" stance because it won't be against the law anymore.

2. Act like he's getting real tough on the border while quietly continuing the policy which Obama just enacted. Or maybe tweak the policy around the edges and loudly proclaim that he fixed it.

Now, back to Bush-- The reason it is important to remember is because it can happen again and in my estimation is almost certain to happen again. Gotta learn from our mistakes or in four years we'll have President Van Jones.

Bush started with a balanced budget and a Senate and House controlled by republicans. Under his watch every one of those advantages was peed away and made it inevitable that Obama would be elected. They couldn't "win over" the lefties and managed to alienate a large segment of the right-wingers, therefore ending up with about a 20 percent support among folk a little to the right of center. The same folks who can stand to watch Bill O'Reilly on TV.

Thankfully democrats are at least equally stupid and they've got themselves in almost the exact same situation. When Romney takes over and it mostly stays the same-old-same-old for four years, say howdy to President Van Jones.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Hi 6.8

I made no claim that Obama's action is desirable or constitutional. But I stand by my contention that G.W., Jeb, McCain and Romney, every single one of them would do the same thing if they thought they could get away with it, and they honestly believe in their hearts that it is the right thing to do.

I understand your sentiment and you may be right, but the one restraint that stopped them and will stop Romney

is that they at least have consideration for the Constitution and the rule of law, which the current one does not.

I think that defines a huge difference in character, which is lacking in far too many leaders far too often.

Otherwise, I don't know what they think, especially McCain. He turns on and off like a light bulb.

Edited June 16, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I understand your sentiment and you may be right, but the one restraint that stopped them and will stop Romney

is that they at least have consideration for the Constitution and the rule of law, which the current one does not.

I think that defines a huge difference in character, which is lacking in far too many leaders far too often.

Otherwise, I don't know what they think, especially McCain. He turns on and off like a light bulb.

Those are good points, 6.8

Apologies for the one-note-samba-- Though Obama has taken administrative disregard for enforcing law to epic proportions with this announcement, it seems more a matter of degree than direction between GW and Obama on the illegal immigration issue.

Bush lost many people's support, including mine, between 2004 and the 2006 election, by pushing amnesty legislation. I mean, my support was bare marginal for bush, but I actually did send some R contributions and write letters to congress because he was the lesser of two evils. That is until he got on his amnesty kick (and other stupidities). It dried up contributions and discouraged R turnout in the 2006 election (along with other issues, but lets stay with this one). If GW had just stayed silent on the amnesty issue then Pelosi might not have become house speaker in 2006. If Pelosi had not become speaker in 2006 then POSSIBLY the crash would not have been so severe in 2008. Yadda yadda.

However, in addition to pushing amnesty, GW was OBVIOUSLY slacking BAD on immigration law enforcement. He was hoping to win hispanic votes for what he probably figured was certain victory in amnesty legislation. Probably didn't want to run people off when they would be able to come back after the "reform" passed. GW didn't win substantial hispanic votes and ran off a lot of people who previously had at least conditional support of the guy. It wasn't cold calculated politics with Bush. He honestly thought that anybody in Mehico ought to be able to come here and stay, and felt bad about them getting sent back. That was well-intended but IMO wrong headed. Maybe GW's humanitarian feelings came from never having had to work a ten dollar per hour job only to get edged out by an illegal willing to do it for five bucks.

The border leaked like a sieve his entire 8 years with only rare deportations. His secretary Chertoff arrogantly and openly refused to enforce the law. The entire admin lobbied against a fence and if I recall after funds were appropriated Chertoff refused to spend that money to build a fence. I was kinda hot about it and don't think I was the lone ranger.

So sure Obama is flaunting his responsibility to enforce these laws, but Bush was flaunting the law really bad. He was flaunting it in a slightly different form so it is difficult to say GW and Obama were flaunting it equally bad, but there sure were a lot of new illegals coming in with scant deportations during Bush's 8 years.

Face it, GW's Chertoff was every bit as arrogant a jerk as Obama's Napolitano.

[Guest ThePunisher]

I was wrong about Obummer. I thought if he got re-elected that he would declare himself Dictator, but he's already doing what dictators do, circumventing the Constitution and rule of law. And most of the people in the country are oblivious to what he has done, and what he does day to day. This Obummer BS is worse that the Watergate days when the Dems were crying foul, and yet nobody is concerned with this commie dictator. We deserve what we get. Geeze!

[Guest bkelm18]

It's simply the democratic process at work. The people get who they elect, and if they are too stupid to see the writing on the wall the first time, they'll elect him again. Obama knows the people are too stupid to see his follies. He's betting on it in fact to win a 2nd term.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Lester, Chertoff did a lot of things I didn't like, including what you wrote, and the comparison between

he and his lady replacement were only separated by ideology, intent to play the political whipsaw remained

consistent between the two. That's one reason I hate the Patriot Act and Homeland Security.

Ever since NAFTA, big government Republicans have become the problem as much as any Democrat.

Only the way they dealt with things like immigration was less overt compared to the current president.

NAFTA was the beginning of the downfall of the enforcement of our immigration laws, only in the name of

competing with the EU. Daddy Bush was the one with the great idea of a one world government, only in

the name of a New World Order. I sometimes wonder what in the Hell Reagan was thinking when he chose

him as VP, unless it was a Grand Old Party idea done to him. We will know about Romney by his choice,

and it will be an indicator of his success or failure. An awful lot stems on that.

Even if we don't agree on some things about Bush, you raise a good share of valid points, Lester. I'll freely

admit he did some things that really pissed me off. They were quite dangerous and we are reaping that harvest

right now.

[mcurrier]

I agree with you Lester on Bush and "immigration". One of the few things I din't like about Bush was his too-close relationship with Mexico's President Fox and his weakness on illegal aliens.

I still don't think you can argue on what someone would have done though.

I agree with 6.8, others have had at least some respect for the Constitution. Obama uses it as toilet paper.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Obama could be charged with treason by his edict. If he had kept his arrogant mouth shut and just

done it without the fanfare of his edict, he would have been like Bush. But, then he couldn't continue

to blame him, could he?.

[sigmtnman]

I've disliked all elected officials since President Davis, so I will only point out that it is not without precedence.

Anyone remember the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986? It was wrong then and it is wrong now.

Edited June 18, 2012 by sigmtnman

[mcurrier]

I've disliked all elected officials since President Davis, so I will only point out that it is not without precedence.

Anyone remember the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986? It was wrong then and it is wrong now.

Yup, the only thing I'm still pissed at Reagan about. Once you start that amnesty ball rolling, it never stops. It never should have gotten started in the first place. 1986 was a huge mistake.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

well, also in 1986, there was a gun law passed with a few flaws that hurt us, also. It could have used more scrutiny.

[sigmtnman]

If you look at when things are enacted and when they are actually enforced/acted upon, one may infer collusion from the leaders of both parties. This lends itself to lots of finger pointing and blame games, while both parties are guilty.

We all know Tyson, Smithfield and other large companies have been caught using illegal labor, which debases labor. Wonder what sort of contributions those corps make to both parties?

Edited June 19, 2012 by sigmtnman

[RobertNashville]

I don't know why such a move would surprise anyone. This is a man who by words and by actions has shown that he hates the United States and most especially the U.S. Constitution...almost everything about the man indicates that he is a socialist and, not surprisingly, hates everything about capitalism (well, everything except the money his friends can donate to him by virtue of their capitalistic efforts).

Given the above, of course he is going to bypass Congress, bully the Supreme Court and completely ignore the Constitution.

My worst fear is that this man and his wife (who also hats the Constitution) is allowed a second term...if that happens, we are done as we won't even be a pale imitation of a democratic republic based on liberty, freedom and personal responsibility.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

You know... after all the he pulled and people actually seeing him for what he is.. I really have my doubts that he will be re elected..

I can hope.. at least!!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

If you look at when things are enacted and when they are actually enforced/acted upon, one may infer collusion from the leaders of both parties. This lends itself to lots of finger pointing and blame games, while both parties are guilty.

We all know Tyson, Smithfield and other large companies have been caught using illegal labor, which debases labor. Wonder what sort of contributions those corps make to both parties?

The elite of both parties know what's best for us. Or whats best for them. Well, actually it is one and the same of course. As Al Capp noted long ago "Whats good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA."

An attitude friendly to slave labor, or serf labor or whatever. It doesn't kick in at the 50 percent income line, but kicks in somewhere well below the 1 percent level. Easy to see when it was discussed to death on tv and radio starting about 2004 on. Smart "investor class" conservative talking heads, "wise conservative journalists" such as Bill Kristol, political know-it-alls such as Karl Rove, union leaders and even hispanic "immigration reform" shyster lawyers in expensive suits-- "If we didn't have all these illegals working so cheap, you couldn't afford to build a big house. You couldn't afford proper lawn services and landscaping. Who would work the restaurants and make beds at hotels? Food would be very expensive."

It is simply amazing that some decades ago most of those enterprises managed to survive without an infinite supply of people willing to work so cheap. Truly amazing that it was possible to build a house or skyscraper, or operate a restaurant, without illegal aliens. Though agriculture has relied on that crutch for a long time, especially in some sections of the country.

[mcurrier]

[mcurrier]

[gjohnsoniv]

LOL

[JKGlock17]

i hope that we as a nation can pull together in order to keep this man from being re-elected. that is my hope. unfortunately it seems to me this man doesnt uphold the law but yet he bully's his way through it. i am almost positive that all these new "workers" will join unions too.