LaserLyte Trainer System ??

[Oh Shoot]

Anybody have one? American Rifleman gave it the Accessory of the Year award.

Looks like about $220 street price to get the target and a caliber specific laser insert. And besides the training value, mainly just looks like fun! Anybody?

http://www.laserlyte...ucts/lts-target

I see Rob Pincus is shilling for it.

- OS

Edited June 9, 2012 by OhShoot

[gjohnsoniv]

What does it do? Actually that's kind of cool.

Edited June 9, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Guest airborne1525]

I played with one at a friend's house last weekend. It was actually quite fun and allows for training in your home using different angles

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Probably a different manufacturer but I have an older BeamHit gadget bought around Y2K that does the same thing.

http://www.appliedla...com/beamhit.htm

It is fun and I used to practice with it a lot. It is good to practice sighting and trigger control while at the same time removing any tendency to flinch. When I was practicing it a lot, for awhile noticed that the first few mags at each range visit were surprisingly dead-eye accurate (for me) and then would get less accurate later in the session. Which I think was initially being trained out of flinching (by the daily laser livingroom sessions) but then after some shooting at the range "getting back in the habit of flinching". But I think lately the flinching is mostly gone, just bad eyes and bad muscle coordination nowadays.

My main complaint with the BeamHit was the laser mounted on the front of the gun, prevented holster draw practice. I'd probably use it more nowadays if it allowed holster draw practice. Am guessing the laserlyte internal laser "bullets" would work with my beamhit brain, but ain't got around to buying one to find out. The BeamHit laser would give a dim flash of visible red light every time it "heard" the snap of the hammer transmitted thru the barrel. Assuming the LaserLyte laser also transmits a brief flash of visible red, then the two systems ought to be compatible.

[JGunner]

I've been thinking about getting one of these ... does look like it would be good fun and good practice.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Got to thinkin about it and shot a couple hundred laser charges at the old Beamhit, hadn't done that in awhile though the target has lived on the entertainment center on a shelf over the TV for years. Ought to do it daily. Didn't cost near as much as 200 rounds at the range. Hopefully it wouldn't wear out the triggers of the pistols. Wish I could hit real targets with real bullets as accurate as that tiny little laser target. The hits actually do have to hit the target to register a hit. You can see the brief flash and if it doesn't light up the target it doesn't go beep.

The BeamHit has a counter that goes to 99, so its easy to count hits.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[greyofk]

I was originally trained with Czech optical simulator and break barrel air guns. I believe that I've got unnatural habits due to the lack of recoil of the optical simulator.

It is valuable for tactical simulation, when you can not use real gun. It makes your reaction time shorter. I do not feel that it improved my accuracy

Speaking of fun, I think it is worth $220

[McAllyn]

If this is the system I looked into a couple years ago, I believe it's contact sensitive, meaning it "fires" when it feels or hears the hammer strike. Which is great if you want to train with a double action weapon, but if you shoot a single action or safe action, then you have to cock the weapon manually (pull back hammer or rack slide to a degree) each time you want it to actuate, which took it out of my realm of usefulness.

However, from my research, the people who train double action with it really like it.

If this is not that system, then disregard everything I've said, as most people do anyway.

Mac

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yep I read and watched videos about the LaserLyte device, which seems "virtually identical" to my old BeamHit except the LaserLyte laser transmitters appear arguably better-designed and more useful assuming they are durable. The BeamHit target device has slightly different scoring features than the LaserLyte, a matter of preference perhaps. Dunno if the transmitters from one system are compatible with receivers of the other, though it appears likely.

The systems would be a PITA for practice with a Kahr or Glock or similar action, because you would have to rack the slide every time, and if you need to use snap caps (to protect the firing pin of weapons susceptible to damage from dry-firing) then the most reasonable thing might be to use the front-barrel-mount variant of the transmitter and rack thru a mag filled with snap caps. Then reload the mag with snap caps after it goes dry. Doesn't sound like fun at all.

I've mainly used the S&W 586 and various SA/DA 9mm semi's. Today I played with the device on a 9mm 1911 as well. My 586 is the old design with no firing pin transfer bar or whatever. The firing pin is just a sharp protrusion on the front of the hammer that drives thru a little hole in the frame to hit the primers and sets em off. Dunno if the old style 586 could have firing pin damage, but out of superstition I use snap caps with it. Just load it with 6 snap caps and go round and round. Reload drills would be conceivable.

Similarly in a DA/SA or 1911, you don't have to rack the slide to cock the hammer, so you can put in one snap cap at the beginning of the session and not mess with it. Or with the "cartridge shaped" laser variants of the LaserLyte, just load the laser transmitter one time in the chamber.

I've bought commercial snap caps on occasion, but also have made ersatz snap caps by de-capping spent cases and filling the primer pocket with silicone sealant or hot glue. Maybe there is something inadequate about a snap cap made from a case with primer pocket filled with silicone or hot glue. If there is something wrong with that somebody please tell me so I will know. To my knowledge never broke a firing pin.

Today fiddling with the beamhit for the first time in about a year, fired 100 laser shots from the 586 (most shots DA, some SA), and 50 each from a 92FS (some DA and some SA) and 9mm 19ll (all SA of course). One of the laserlyte videos made a good point hadn't thought about-- Even with a DA gun, double-tap practice is unrealistic and possibly even counter-productive because of the lack of recoil. Even if you got deadly fast and accurate with laser triple taps, it wouldn't be the same as a triple-tap with live ammo and recoil.

So the primary practice advantage would be draw-raise-aim-fire cycle. It does seem pretty good for that. Even if you have to cock the hammer every time, its easy enough to cock while re-holstering or lowering the pistol to the side. And its not bad "weight lifting" excercise to raise the gun that many reps in a row. Practicing with the 1911, I'd raise, target, click off safety, fire. Then cock and re-engage safety on the way down for the next rep. That might actually be useful muscle memory and hand-eye coordination training. Or not. Dunno. Guess if somebody is already perfect at it, then the exercise might just be wearing out the trigger for no good use.

[Oh Shoot]

If this is the system I looked into a couple years ago, I believe it's contact sensitive, meaning it "fires" when it feels or hears the hammer strike. ..

The systems would be a PITA for practice with a Kahr or Glock or similar action, because you would have to rack the slide every time, and if you need to use snap caps (to protect the firing pin of weapons susceptible to damage from dry-firing) ...

The laser insert goes in chamber. It functions as a snap cap also. Firing pin triggers the short laser burst. Yes, with single action you must partially rack slide just enough to recock trigger each time; there's no rim on laser insert so it stays in place.

Only real training drawback is that you can't practice double tapping or more. On the other hand, as Pincus shows, will really ingrain tap rack bang if you train that way.

Anyway, as far as having to recock each time, 'bout the same effort/time as would take to cock hammer on single action revolver, no biggie in that regards seems to me. Most all semi pistolas just take ~1/4 or less slide rack to recock.

- OS

Edited June 10, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks for the good explanations, OS. Hadn't read about the "bullet" laser transmitters enough. The bullet laser transmitters have several nice features didn't notice. Triggering via firing pin and no rim so it doesn't eject itself if you rack the slide.

Didn't know that you only have to work the slide a little bit to reset a Glock trigger. Maybe its about the same with a Kahr? Never tested.

My old BeamHit laser transmitter is a kinda klunky "box" more than 1 inch on each dimension, sticking out the front of the barrel. Beamhit now sells some "sleeker" laser transmitters but the prices are higher than the LaserLyte devices. Hopefully durability would be good on the LaserLyte because the price and features are great. Though expensive, my transmitter says "Made in Israel 1994" and still works as good as it ever did. But I didn't buy it til about Y2K.

LaserLyte also sells the LTS Universal front-barrel-mounted, sound activated that looks even clunkier than my BeamHit transmitter, and an LTS Pro sound-activated which fits entirely in the front of the barrel except a nub that sticks out a fraction of an inch. That LTS Pro looks the best to me, unless if somebody planned to exclusively use nothing but 9mm, .380, .40, or .45 pistols, in which case the "cartridge" versions would be better.

On the other hand maybe somebody would decide to buy several of the "cartridge" versions since they seem friendlier to rack/tap drills compared to using snap caps (if you have a pistol that needs snap caps to protect the firing pin). Dunno how critical snap caps are, but I don't recall reading the manual of any of my pistols that says, "sure, dry fire as much as you want on an empty chamber, it won't hurt nothin." Maybe it really wouldn't hurt, but seems most manuals say to use snap caps on my pistols.

My BeamHit transmitter can have different barrel rods to screw into the back of the "box". I leave the 9mm/38 rod on mine. It has two nylon rings in slots in the rod, and two hex-key adjuster screws. You adjust the tension so the barrel rod is easy to insert, but tight enough not to fall out. For most satisfactory fit, they have to be slightly adjusted when going from 9mm pistol to .357 pistol;. That LTS Pro looks like a better design, just a hand-tightened back screw to adjust tightness of fit, and a conical front to assure good alignment in the barrel. And not enough protrusion to prevent holster practice except with a very tight holster.

Looks like BeamHit is still going strong (though spensive). They still sell the TR-700 target like mine, except with a sleeker transmitter, in addition to a few other fancier targets. Even the "cheapest" TR-700 has a DB-9 serial connector for computer interfacing, shot monitoring and control, though I've never seen the need to hook it to a puter. They sell various package deals, multiple targets for classroom use, police, swat practice, whatever, where numerous targets all hook up to a master scoring/control puter. Either a bunch of the cheap TR-700 networked, or a bunch of more expensive targets networked.

Which is another thing hadn't considered-- If practicing double-action pistol, one could put up several of the targets in the living room or basement, or even put different targets in different rooms, and practice sweeping the house moving and shooting the various targets. That would be cheaper to accomplish with the LaserLyte targets than BeamHit, because the LaserLyte targets are much less expensive.

Looks like there are more new video systems where the computer controls shoot/no shoot images on a large-screen TV and you shoot at them, but that has kinda an "arcade" quality. Maybe it would be better practice to have multiple targets different places where you actually did have to practice moving and shooting to hit them?

[Oh Shoot]

...Didn't know that you only have to work the slide a little bit to reset a Glock trigger. Maybe its about the same with a Kahr? Never tested...

Yeah, Kahr just needs about an inch pull back, first click you hear is trigger re-cock. Don't have a Glock, but surely similar to my XDs, also about an inch or so? 'Course, my Beretta 92 can shoot multiples in double action, or just cock hammer each time for single.

All the 9mm pistols I have, only the ole Hi-Point C-9 requires mostly full travel on slide to cock.

I could also use this giz in my Hi-Point and Kel-Tec 9mm carbines. Haven't noticed how far back have to pull those puppies each time to reset, might get kinda tiresome. Also would need a long wooden dowel to push bore laser out, you just use a pencil on pistols.

The big advantage of the in-chamber caliber specific sites is of course, there's no adjusting/testing, points down center of bore when loaded. Disadvantage is that you need one for each caliber. But I'm a 9mm only semi-auto feller, so no nevermind there for moi.

- OS

Edited June 11, 2012 by OhShoot