Man claiming SYG in TX after initiating confrontation

[TMF]

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/man-claims-self-defense-fatal-shooting-neighbor-115652180--abc-news-topstories.html

Anyone else following this? Unlike Zimmerman, there is no doubt here that this guy initiates the incident while armed. An example of being in fear of your life doesn't matter if you start/escalate it.

[mikegideon]

http://gma.yahoo.com...topstories.html

Anyone else following this? Unlike Zimmerman, there is no doubt here that this guy initiates the incident while armed. An example of being in fear of your life doesn't matter if you start/escalate it.

I think he's gonna get to experience some man love.

[mcurrier]

Last line of the article.

"The trial is expected to last about a week."

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It shouldn't last but about an hour.

[raydog1]

This couldn't be more tailor made for the antis case against SYG. Brandished a gun in a noise dispute and used the "buzzwords" he learned at a HCP class. A teacher is dead. Not smart putting this in the hands of a jury. Should've plead if a plea deal was offered.

[mikegideon]

This couldn't be more tailor made for the antis case against SYG. Brandished a gun in a noise dispute and used the "buzzwords" he learned at a HCP class. A teacher is dead. Not smart putting this in the hands of a jury. Should've plead if a plea deal was offered.

Well... what are they gonna say when he is convicted of murder?

[raydog1]

Well... what are they gonna say when he is convicted of murder?

That same things they always say.

"He shouldn't have had a gun, HCP, flashlight, nobody should, too many guns BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

[mikegideon]

That same things they always say.

"He shouldn't have had a gun, HCP, flashlight, nobody should, too many guns BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

So... they don't gain a thing. Seems to me, smart folks would lump that guy in with murders after he's convicted. Anti's... you can't fix stupid.

[DaveTN]

Well... what are they gonna say when he is convicted of murder?

Same thing they should say in Florida; SYG doesn’t apply to someone that started the confrontation.

[raydog1]

So... they don't gain a thing. Seems to me, smart folks would lump that guy in with murders after he's convicted. Anti's... you can't fix stupid.

Yup. But anything castle doctrine or SYG related is under attack these days and this guy is on tape actually saying, "I'm standing my ground here." I don't think we've had a case like that before. I expect that quote to be put on blast for a long time.

[mikegideon]

Same thing they should say in Florida; SYG doesn’t apply to someone that started the confrontation.

You just ain't gonna give up, are ya?

[mikegideon]

Yup. But anything castle doctrine or SYG related is under attack these days and this guy is on tape actually saying, "I'm standing my ground here." I don't think we've had a case like that before. I expect that quote to be put on blast for a long time.

You may be right. So far, the governor of Florida is the only one dumb enough to chase such stupid logic. I don't expect that to go anywhere. It IS still Florida.

[DaveTN]

You just ain't gonna give up, are ya?

Nope. I believe that in my heart. You can’t kill someone over a fight you started. You take your azz whipping and learn to either keep your mouth shut, or call the Police and let them deal with it. You don’t get to murder someone when you figure out you have bitten off more than you can chew.

And I’m really surprised you don’t agree with me on this.

[gnmwilliams]

Same thing they should say in Florida; SYG doesn’t apply to someone that started the confrontation.

I thought I read somewhere that even if you start the fight there are exemptions where you can still claim SYG once you have tried to withdraw from the fight and have reason to fear for your life. Not saying I agree with this and I think it's a flaw in the law but it's something to think about.

Edited June 9, 2012 by gnmwilliams

[bubbiesdad]

Same thing they should say in Florida; SYG doesn’t apply to someone that started the confrontation.

Nope. I believe that in my heart. You can’t kill someone over a fight you started. You take your azz whipping and learn to either keep your mouth shut, or call the Police and let them deal with it. You don’t get to murder someone when you figure out you have bitten off more than you can chew.

And I’m really surprised you don’t agree with me on this.

Well, we do know who started the confrontation here, as the nimrod recorded him self. In FL, we do not know.

Edited June 9, 2012 by bubbiesdad

[DaveTN]

Well, we do know who started the confrontation here, as the nimrod recorded him self. In FL, we do not know.

We know who got out of his truck and started chasing the victim in Florida.

[zenman]

I never heard anything about chasing in FL, I heard following and I heard watching.

[TMF]

So... they don't gain a thing. Seems to me, smart folks would lump that guy in with murders after he's convicted. Anti's... you can't fix stupid.

That statement presupposes that smart folks outnumber morons.

The argument the antis will use on this is that the shooter was emboldened by the SYG law, and if it hadn't been for the law he wouldn't have done what he did. Let's just say that's true. It doesn't change anything. If he gets convicted he had committed a crime, therefore, was not following the law to begin with. His misinterpretation of the law doesn't mean that it is the fault of the law in place. If I go to a park that allows dogs and bring my pitbull fresh off the Michael Vick ranch I'm still responsible when it rips out the throat of a kid. I'm not going to successfully argue that because it's legal to bring my dog I am not responsible for the actions of the animal.

It boils down to personal responsibility which is a concept lost on the left. They believe that the gov takes care of us plebs and protects us from harm. It is impossible to reason with them because they don't believe in our logic. So SYG is evil because we have police to protect us. When we give the plebs the right to defend themselves there will be chaos and disorder, such as in this case. Everyone involved is a victim, to include this piece of human garbage that took a little girl's father away over some loud music. If he never had the right to own a gun or if SYG didn't exist this wouldn't have happened. That is their logic and if you put that on the tv enough people will believe it. God forbid we say that this piece of sh*t knew he was doing wrong and committed premeditated murder and should be first in line for the chair once he's convicted; that would just be wrong.... in their opinion.

[TMF]

Another thing that bothers me about it is how hard is it to ask someone to be respectful and turn the music down? If they tell you to pound sand then call the police.

If someone came on my property brandishing a gun and making threats/demands they'd be getting a 5.56 injection before it got to where it did.

At the same time, if someone came to my door and asked me to turn down the music I would be embarrassed, mortified and apologetic.

I just don't get folks. Seems like everyone is to the extreme these days.

[mikegideon]

That statement presupposes that smart folks outnumber morons.

The argument the antis will use on this is that the shooter was emboldened by the SYG law, and if it hadn't been for the law he wouldn't have done what he did. Let's just say that's true. It doesn't change anything. If he gets convicted he had committed a crime, therefore, was not following the law to begin with. His misinterpretation of the law doesn't mean that it is the fault of the law in place. If I go to a park that allows dogs and bring my pitbull fresh off the Michael Vick ranch I'm still responsible when it rips out the throat of a kid. I'm not going to successfully argue that because it's legal to bring my dog I am not responsible for the actions of the animal.

It boils down to personal responsibility which is a concept lost on the left. They believe that the gov takes care of us plebs and protects us from harm. It is impossible to reason with them because they don't believe in our logic. So SYG is evil because we have police to protect us. When we give the plebs the right to defend themselves there will be chaos and disorder, such as in this case. Everyone involved is a victim, to include this piece of human garbage that took a little girl's father away over some loud music. If he never had the right to own a gun or if SYG didn't exist this wouldn't have happened. That is their logic and if you put that on the tv enough people will believe it. God forbid we say that this piece of sh*t knew he was doing wrong and committed premeditated murder and should be first in line for the chair once he's convicted; that would just be wrong.... in their opinion.

I've almost used the pit bull argument with dog lovin' anti's. A gun and a pit bull can both be deadly. When they are, it's the owner's fault.

[bubbiesdad]

We know who got out of his truck and started chasing the victim in Florida.

I never heard anything about chasing in FL, I heard following and I heard watching.

Perhaps we don't have Dave's gift of being all seeing.

[Mr. Brooks]

Seems like a self correcting situation to me. Idiot who confronts and taunts neighbor while brandishing goes to jail. Other idiot who decides to physically attack someone who is armed is dead.

If someone shows up on my property while armed and starts making a scene I'm calling the police, I'm not going to start a firefight in my front yard unless it's the last resort.

[TMF]

If someone shows up on my property while armed and starts making a scene I'm calling the police, I'm not going to start a firefight in my front yard unless it's the last resort.

Some of us (like the dead father) have kids. If someone comes on my property making a scene I'll wait for the police. They come one my property brandishing a firearm and making a scene they are getting lead poisoning. When police can respond faster then a bad guy's bullets I'll start considering the notion of waiting.

For now, I have too much at stake to risk a whacko on my property that is likely to start shooting with my children in a non-bullet proof house. As is proven by the three people he shot, he had no problem pulling the trigger. I'm not waiting on a 5-10 minute response time from the police to find out just how committed an armed trespasser is. This guy did and he died. Pretty simple equation.

[Mr. Brooks]

Actually the guy didn't wait, him and his buddies decided to physically assault the guy and got themselves shot for their efforts. There is a good chance if they hadn't escalated the situation they would still be alive and the neighbor would have been charged with brandishing.

If a guy shows up on your property and already has his gun out, all your likely to accomplish by trying to pull your own is to get yourself shot. I think your kids would rather having you breathing then watch you be shot to death.

But at the end of the day, it's your choice to make. I pray that if you ever find yourself in that situation you are faster then the other guy.

[TMF]

Actually the guy didn't wait, him and his buddies decided to physically assault the guy and got themselves shot for their efforts. There is a good chance if they hadn't escalated the situation they would still be alive and the neighbor would have been charged with brandishing.

If a guy shows up on your property and already has his gun out, all your likely to accomplish by trying to pull your own is to get yourself shot. I think your kids would rather having you breathing then watch you be shot to death.

But at the end of the day, it's your choice to make. I pray that if you ever find yourself in that situation you are faster then the other guy.

Like I said in an earlier post, it never would have got to the point that it did. From the story on the news earlier it was reported that he had gone over to the victims house before the incident with two pistols strapped to him. That would have thrown up a red flag from the get go.

Either way, if someone comes on my property brandishing a firearm it's safe to assume they have intent to do harm. I know my capabilities and limitations and am confident that I would have no problem up against a drunken redneck. I don't think an acceptable solution is to capitulate and accept I can't shoot faster or more accurate then they can. To me that would be accepting death. I would prefer to die fighting than die begging for my life and the lives of my family.

These guys were dumb for thinking they could deliver a butt whooping to an armed whacko. That still has no bearing on the actions of the shooter. He knew what he came there to do and now he's going to be in fear of his freedom and butt virginity.