Earmuff suggestions

[sschrick]

Looking to buy a pair for both indoor range use and outdoor competition (IDPA).

Currently, i have just been using the small foam earbuds. They work OK on noise reduction, but not convenient for easy on/off application.

What is a good (or minimum) decibel reduction level I should look for?

What are some good recommendations?

[Caster]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/671923/howard-leight-impact-sport-electronic-earmuffs-nrr-22-db-green

Been using these for a while now. Zero complaints.

[mikegideon]

http://www.midwayusa...nrr-22-db-green

Been using these for a while now. Zero complaints.

I actually have those sitting in my wish list at Midway. I have a couple of these, and they have worked well...

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/caldwell/catalog.asp?product=E-MAX-Low-Profile-Hearing-Protection

[Caster]

I had a pair of those. Bought them new, used them once........I have NO IDEA where they went.

[peejman]

I double up with earmuffs over foam plugs. I've never had any issues hearing range commands. I'd look for a minimum of 22dB reduction. More is better merrier, IMO.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

http://www.midwayusa...nrr-22-db-green

Been using these for a while now. Zero complaints.

I've had those a few years and been very happy with them.

[ted]

This is what I use Thay work well http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23561/catid/21/HP1__NRR_21__Electronic_Hearing_Protector__Blue

[Fourtyfive]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/671923/howard-leight-impact-sport-electronic-earmuffs-nrr-22-db-green

Been using these for a while now. Zero complaints.

Got them too , great !

[dlm37015]

go to the ear dr get a good set made

[Tempest455]

Ditto on plugs under muffs.

I've tried a couple of the electronic type and none were as quiet as standard Peltors.

[tnhawk]

I double up with earmuffs over foam plugs. I've never had any issues hearing range commands. I'd look for a minimum of 22dB reduction. More is better merrier, IMO.

I usually wear both,especially at indoor ranges.

[gjohnsoniv]

I have a pair of the Surefire Earpro's, work well for me, but they aren't ear muffs.

[monkeylizard]

I use Peltor Tactical 7S. In an indoor range, or if a range neighbor is using a hand cannon, I'll use foam plugs under them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/541841/peltor-tactical-7s-electronic-earmuffs-nrr-24db-gray

[Guest nowheretobefound]

In the last 30+ years I've used allot of different ear protection. A couple of years ago I got some Howard Leight QB1's and have not used anything else since.

http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/hearing-bands-ear-bands.html

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I occasionally still use the earplugs + electronic muffs approach, but shooting mostly pistols the electronic muffs seem "good enough" nowadays. Maybe that is a sign of hearing loss in itself.

Plugs + electronic muffs is a neat approach because you can crank the gain of the muffs high enough to partially-undo the attenuation of the plugs, so it is about the same subjective effect as no hearing protection at all until a loud sound happens, and then the muff amps squelch and you get "double attenuation" of the gun fire or chain saw or whatever is too loud.

DLM mentions custom plugs by an audiologist. I've had those made in the past and they can work better than one size fits all. Proper seal determines NRR effectiveness and a well-made set of custom plugs has a real good seal. Unless there have been recent advances in materials, you will probably need em re-made every few years because the rubber will shrink over time and no longer give a good fit.

Solid plugs (either custom or off the shelf) give a plugged-up feeling and can get some people disoriented. Mess with the ear's "sense of balance" organs and such. In addition, solid plugs can seriously attenuate high and mid freqs without much attenuation of bass, so bass loud sounds can seem louder than without plugs, when you remove the masking of the broad band audio. And sometimes solid plugs or even muffs can resonate with low freqs and literally make the bass a little louder. Sometimes with solid plugs if I walk around I hear a loud "thump thump thump" every time I take a step. The plugs interacting with the hearing mechanism to either make the low freq sound of walking literally louder, or at least more noticeable in absence of other masking freqs.

There is one "sonic valve" design made for years under various brand name that have minimal attenuation under normal spl, but loud sound pressure levels drive a little diaphram against a seal inside a little cylindrical insert, blocking loud impulses. They are not good enough (IMO) to protect against loud gunfire by themselves, but have usefulness along with muffs because if sound is loud enough even past the muff to pass threshold of the "sonic valve" then it will add extra protection as needed when needed. You don't get the "plugged up" sensation of sealed plugs, and the 6 dB normal attenuation of the sound valve is easy to "un-do" by cranking the gain on electronic muffs.

IMO the sound valves are not good for listening to music. Too-Loud music will "flap the valves" chopping the peaks of the pressure waves, causing horrible unpleasant intermodulation distortion.

Another "basically open" design you can get either custom made or off the shelf are etymotics inserts or plugs. They were initially billed 20 years ago as "musicians earplugs" because they have minimal distortion and nearly flat frequency response. Last time I looked there were three different "buttons" available for custom plugs. They "plug in" to little holes drilled in the custom plugs. The ER-15 had nominal 15 dB attenuation, and I think there was an ER-25 and possibly one other level of attenuation. The tiny little buttons were kinda expensive but didn't wear out much and you could keep the buttons and click them into new earmolds when the old earmolds don't fit good any more and have to be re-made.

There is also an ER-20 which is an inexpensive one-size-fits-all plug that is durable, lasts for months or years if taken care of. The frequency response is not as flat as the custom-buttons, but it is flat enough not to be distracting when playing music wearing em. For me anyway. I quit getting custom plugs made for my ER-15 buttons because the ER-20's were "good enough" and the extra hassle and expense of custom molds wasn't warranted to get the job done.

Those etymotics fellers are pretty smart. The plugs get balanced frequency response with a mechanical emulation of a filter circuit. There is a little diaphram that acts like a capacitor and a little cavity that acts like a resonator/inductor, allowing "just enough" mids and highs thru to balance with the overall attenuation of the plug.

If the frequency response is flat, merely quieter, it greatly enhances voice intelligibility compared to solid plugs that severely attenuate mids and highs without attenuating much bass. And unless maybe yer a drummer, I don't see how a musician could adjust tone and volume adequately along with other musicians on the stage unless he's hearing a flat frequency response. A guy could be killing the audience with an ultra-bright synthesizer tone shredding people's eardrums, and never know it unless he's hearing flat frequency response.

Plugs purposed for loud industrial environments would be better for serious loud noises if you don't also use muffs. But a combo of electronic muffs plus ER-15 plugs can be "like wearing nothing at all" except when gunshots mute the muffs, you get "double attenuation".

Edited June 11, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[mikegideon]

I've been thinking about doubling up, since I shoot rifles a lot. I have some of those valve plugs that are 30 yrs old. May need to get some new ones. Foam plugs bug me.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I've been thinking about doubling up, since I shoot rifles a lot. I have some of those valve plugs that are 30 yrs old. May need to get some new ones. Foam plugs bug me.

I used to like the sound valves decades ago for stuff like looking for rattles in bass bins. Got yer head up inside a big ole folded horn 18" woofer, gotta do something for protection while also hearing good enough to find the rattle. But that was a long time ago and there is probably a better solution nowadays because of the intermodulation distortion of the sound valves, and they don't have REAL outstanding NRR when used standalone. Though it is near-impossible to use official tests to measure the true NRR of the valves because of they way they interact with the standard testing procedures.

Hmm, maybe somebody smart would look for rattles with sealed headphones and an earthworks calibration mic on a long pole. Those mics have enough headroom to survive it and have minimal distortion.

I carry a set of sound valves, a set of ER-20, and a baggy of foam plugs in the range bag, "just in case" somebody is setting off a cannon in the next lane. I end up giving away lots of foam plugs to people that didn't bring ear protection.

I think I've seen the sound valves fer sail at sports stores lately, Academy or Sportsmans Warehouse. They don't cost much.

Betcha there are music stores in Nashvegas that sell the ER-20 plugs. Think they sell around 8 or 12 bucks nowadays and really are excellent. I don't play on stage much anymore and hardly ever go to live shows, but you won't see me going to a concert without a set of ER-20's in pocket "just in case" because lots of bands play way freaking too loud and the ER-20's sound pretty good with music. Or they are easy to buy online, Guitar Center or whatever-- I THINK I've seen ER-20's fer sail recently somewhere you wouldn't expect, maybe even a sports store, but can't recall where. Old age is a drag, but memory wasn't good when young either. I wouldn't advise ER-20 for standalone protection against routers, chansaws, gunfire, but it is great for modest loud noise and rock'n'roll unless the musicians are just gawdawful loud.

OK, Guitar Center lists these hearos thangs that appear to be ER-20--

http://www.guitarcen...945-i1134130.gc

And Amazon lists em under the etymotics brand (the inventing company, which has at least a few smart fellers working there).

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B0015WNZ9K

Edited June 11, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[mikegideon]

You don't need much to supplement the electronic cans. The only reason I haven't tried the valves already is that I'm not sure they'll be effective behind cans. I bought them when I was shooting a lot of .357 magnum. They were pretty effective back then for a country boy that shot everything else without protection.

My cans are pretty effective by themselves. Another 6-10 db should do it. Foam will do that easily, but I hate 'em.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yeah my howard leight electronic muffs are surprisingly effective too. Maybe they just happen to make a good seal on my head and ears, wheras some other set of muffs might seal better on somebody else's head.

Dunno if I've ever worn out a set of ER-20 or Sound Valves. Eventually they get lost but I've never worn out a set before finally losing em.

Everybody has different ear canals as well. The ER-20 is very comfortable in my ear canals. Makes a great seal and can wear em daily for hours without soreness, and did that for years when playing 6 night club gigs. My ear canals might be different shaped than average. Dunno if they are bigger, smaller, or just the wrong shape. That is because have never been able to get any off-the-shelf earbuds to stay in my ears. The standard cheap earbuds just fall right out no matter how I try to cram em in. Those standard earbuds you get with MP3 players and such. Completely useless for me unless I hold em in place with fingers, which kinda defeats the purpose.

One time bought a $15 or $20 set of earbud adapters at Rat Shack, with several sizes of adapters intended to make an earbud fit better but it was wasted money because none of the adapters fit my ear either.

Anyway, the rubber piece of any sound valve I've had, they have the same basic design over the years and are uncomfortable for me. After an hour or two the ear gets sore. On a typical range visit after a couple of hours the sound valves have to come out regardless whether its time to pack up and go home . Couldn't wear that design 4 or 5 hours on a music gig or all day woodworking. The design seals fine but is uncomfortable. Maybe the sound valve ear-seals are comfortable for the average individual? Otherwise the company would have changed the design after near 40 years?

Etymotics also offers the ER-20 style ear seals as one option with their ER-4 hi-fi in-ear phones. They offer several insert options including custom molded inserts. The ER-20 style seals fit me better than foam and are most comfortable with the ER-4. Never got custom molds made for ER-4. I really like the ER-4 fidelity. One of the closest things to hotwiring high-quality audio direct to yer brain. Several other companies make high-end in-ear headphones and the other products are most likely as good or better than the ER-4, but haven't gone shopping for alternates because the ER-4 works so dandy. I mainly use em just occasionally when debugging DSP code listening for minor defects that are difficult to hear on speakers, and colored too much by most headphone designs. But if a fella didn't have a decent room to mix in, I think I'd try my chances making a mix on ER-4 above other options.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.html

Apologies, rambling again. Might as well keep on going...

An idea had a few years ago, maybe somebody has done it by now, but maybe not affordable to the working musician. Haven't had time to play with the idea and maybe even at a realistic price the demand would be lacking. Well, at least at one time if not presently, Etymotics was selling a crazy expensive "hifi hearing aid" with the initial target market well-heeled geezer audio engineers, musicians, record producers. Folk with hearing impairment who want to keep working. It had dynamic EQ and compression to make the best of blown-out ears.

Anyway, especially with a custom earmold, thangs like the ER-4 or the Shure in-ear monitors have awesome fidelity and isolation and are the "cats meow" hooked into a stage monitor system operated by a competent soundman. But was thinking a fairly inexpensive high quality ipod sized box with real good mics (for the money). Clip it to the shirt or whatever and plug in some great in-ear monitors like ER-4 or Shure, for casual gigging where there ain't even a soundman.

The box would have "real good for the money" audio chain-- dynamic (or fixed) EQ options, and an excellent auto-adapting-envelope lookahead limiter. That would be a whole lot more pleasant to do a small gig with, compared to "hifi earplugs". I initially started wearing earplugs in self-defense from snare drums, which have got to be as loud as a shotgun on a small stage. But even 15dB fixed attenuation with nearly-flat freq response, makes it difficult to communicate between-songs with singers and musicians. An awesome zero-distortion auto-adapting peak limiter behind a programmable multi-band compressor would make it easy to talk to musicians between songs while also protecting the ear from drummer and guitarist excesses. Of course the system would also make an excellent shooting hearing protection. It would be like high-quality muffs on steroids, which isn't necessary for shooting protection but on the other hand wouldn't make the system work worse just because it is squeaky clean distortion free.

[mikegideon]

Just ordered the howard leight cans.

[Guest ThePunisher]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/671923/howard-leight-impact-sport-electronic-earmuffs-nrr-22-db-green

Been using these for a while now. Zero complaints.

These are great. You can find them at Academy Sports.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

These are great. You can find them at Academy Sports.

And at Sportsman's Warehouse as well. Been happy with mine.

[mikegideon]

And at Sportsman's Warehouse as well. Been happy with mine.

Yeah, you talked me into spending money again

[Guest BungieCord]

Howard Leights only have about 20 db of attenuation, 10 less than good earplugs or cheap passive cups. For my money, it's too little attenuation if I'm in a situation where there are people shooting centerfires nearby. At a public range, I wear closed cell polyurethane earplugs for hearing protection with the Howard Leights over the top for flinch protection (from my neighbor's muzzle blast). And they don't amplify voices loud enough to be heard through the ear plugs, which makes their electronic function worthless under those conditions. Plus, the cup on the strong side fouls the rifle stock and I can't get a decent cheek weld without pushing the cup up high enough that it compromises the "noise seal."

[Guest Kobalt]

Peltor.