Vehicle Carry

[Guest ochretoe]

I'm pretty sure in Tn. you do not have to consent to a search of your vehicle unless there is probable cause. Even if you signed a paper saying you would agree, you have the right to change your mind. If the boss want's to check your car tell them to get a warrant. If they fire you over it you have a good laws suit for unjust termination. An employer cannot superseed the law of the state. An unloaded gun in a locked safe in a car is legal !!!!! Keep a mag or shells in the safe with the gun and load it and put it on when you leave. My employees all stop right off the park and load up. What sucks is a park visitor can go armed but an employee of the park cannot.

[Oh Shoot]

... If the boss want's to check your car tell them to get a warrant. If they fire you over it you have a good laws suit for unjust termination.

In TN you can be fired for any reason not directly relating to being a member of a federally protected class. Handgun bearers do not comprise any of those classes. The reason does not even have to be disclosed.

An employer cannot superseed the law of the state. An unloaded gun in a locked safe in a car is legal !!!!!

Employer does not supersede law by requiring that. Contractual agreements are generally always valid as long as they do not include unlawful acts. It is not against the law to NOT have a gun in your car.

What sucks is a park visitor can go armed but an employee of the park cannot.

Gee, doesn't this "supersede the law" according to your premise?

- OS

edit: apologies for possibly slipping into the same old polarized argument re carry rights vs private property rights. Of course Federal "property rights" are inviolate, even though that's "our" property!

Edited June 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[TMF]

Know your operational environment. With the exception of the military, I've never worked anywhere that it was commonplace to search an employee's vehicle. If it was I wouldn't want to work there. If that is the sort of place you work then you'll have to make a risk v reward decision.

I'd say keep it in your car in one of those small gunvault safes if you're concerned about it being stolen. I just bought one for my wife's bedside. They're cheap and nice.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I put this Bestop underseat lock box in the 2010 Wrangler JK. I don't have any complaints with it so far. There are listed conditions where they say it will not fit.

http://www.quadratec.com/products/14114_0001_07.htm

It was a toss-up decision against this Tuffy box that isn't expensive but costs about 2X the price of the BestTop

http://www.quadratec.com/products/14040_0001_07.htm

For such an item you would think everybody and his brother would want one, it was hard to find scads of user reviews online. Only a few reviews and threads.

The installation instructions were nearly identical between the two boxes, and the construction and dimensions are also nearly identical. IIRC the Tuffy quotes slightly larger interior dimensions, and perhaps the Tuffy is made out of better materials or whatever but the Bestop so far ain't broke and fairly rugged. If somebody steals the jeep then hardly any lockbox would be crowbar proof or sledgehammer proof, so its only good against crimes of opportunity anyway.

I'm a mechanical klutz and managed to install it myself so it must be pretty easy. The seat bolts were hard to remove and had to go buy the longest socket extension that the auto parts store had hanging on the wall. Maybe Iron Man or the Incredible Hulk could get the bolts out with an ordinary-length socket handle. The angle is awkward so when loosening the bolts you only can turn about 1/8 or 1/4 turn on each pull of the socket handle, so it took a little while to back em out.

It was recommended to tighten the bolts to a certain foot pounds when putting em back in, but I was able to get enough torque to put em back in at the recommended foot pounds with just an 18" torque-wrench handle. So MAYBE the factory put em in a little tighter than their recommended torque. Dunno.

Anyway installation was a snap with the right tools.

[Guest ochretoe]

In TN you can be fired for any reason not directly relating to being a member of a federally protected class. Handgun bearers do not comprise any of those classes. The reason does not even have to be disclosed.

The protected classes are Federal, Tn is a right to work state. You may be fired without cause but you still have recourse.

Employer does not supersede law by requiring that. Contractual agreements are generally always valid as long as they do not include unlawful acts. It is not against the law to NOT have a gun in your car.

Last I knew illegal search and seizure was against the law. Refusal to open your car in a public lot would be an interesting legal battle.

Gee, doesn't this "supersede the law" according to your premise?

It's not my premise, but thanks for thinking so highly of me. It is State Law.

- OS

edit: apologies for possibly slipping into the same old polarized argument re carry rights vs private property rights. Of course Federal "property rights" are inviolate, even though that's "our" property!

Sorry for pissing you off. Guess I should leave the forums to professionals and go back to Patrolling.

[Oh Shoot]

Sorry for pissing you off. Guess I should leave the forums to professionals and go back to Patrolling.

I'd address a couple of your points; (btw, when you put comments within a quoted section, the next person can't quote them).

The protected classes are Federal, Tn is a right to work state. ...

Correct. That's what I said. TN employers must comply with federal law regarding the protected classes. Otherwise, can generally be fired. An exact contractual agreement can override that, of course, but rank and file employees don't generally have that.

As far as illegal search and seizure vs employer search via contract, it doesn't matter. The employer is likely not trying to have you charged with a crime (since you wouldn't be guilty of one unless you had loaded gun with no HCP), only a violation of policy. Of course you don't have to allow his search under the law. Of course he can fire you for not allowing it. Of course you'd not be guilty of a crime, but of course you'd have no recourse for wrongful termination either.

Don't know what you mean by "park", guess state park. Just like any other employer, the state of TN can set conditions of employment, of course; however, state policy is not to terminate except for cause, but there's a long list of them, if they want to get you. When I worked at UT, I figgered I had broken all of them at one time or another, except possible for a couple I didn't fully understand.

Btw, if you think my response indicated I was pissed off, you are reading phantasms between the lines or you have the thinnest skin on the entire internet.

- OS

Edited June 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Jesse]

noob question, Do you need a carry permit to have a loaded weapong in your car? I'm thinking yes, just wanted to confirm.

[Oh Shoot]

noob question, Do you need a carry permit to have a loaded weapong in your car? I'm thinking yes, just wanted to confirm.

Yes, absolutely.

Otherwise, unloaded, with ammo well separated from proximity of firearm.

- OS

[frankmako]

with todays small pocket pistols there is no reason not to have one in your pocket when you walk out the front door. kel tec, ruger, kar, etc... makes small 380 that you can drop in your back pocket and no one will know.

[Guest sL1k]

with todays small pocket pistols there is no reason not to have one in your pocket when you walk out the front door. kel tec, ruger, kar, etc... makes small 380 that you can drop in your back pocket and no one will know.

I pocket carry at my job, we used work behind closed doors but they now have an open door policy so anyone off the street/former employees/jealous husbands can just walk in. It is against company policy to have a "weapon". I value my life more than I value that policy.

[Bassoneer]

You could get something like this and run the cable around your seat frame or I would think you could mount it some how

http://www.amazon.co...&sr=1-1-catcorr

I got one of those with a combination lock and installed it in the center console of a 2004 F150. I screwed it down (just to keep it from sliding around) using two of the screws that were already there to hold the console down - I had to drill a small hole in the bottom of the lockbox to match the spacing of the Ford screws, then simply removed and re-installed the screws through the lockbox bottom. This might have been good enough, but then I also moved the driver's seat all the way forward and drilled a hole (about 1/2" or 3/4" diameter) through the side of the console, a little below seat level, so the cable could come through and attach to the seat frame. It would take a while to remove this thing and it certainly is not obvious or visible. I've only had to use it one time, and as it turns out I got back to the car and I had forgotten to spin the combination...these things don't work too good if you leave them set to the combination all the time Best Wishes, B

[dats82]

Yes, absolutely.

Otherwise, unloaded, with ammo well separated from proximity of firearm.

- OS

It is my understanding that TN law views a loaded removable magazine as a loaded weapon. It is kinda splitting hairs, and I would think you would have to have a real di(k of a cop to charge you. Conceivably, though, even if you had the firearm and ammo seperated but the ammo was in a drop out mag, you still legally have a loaded weapon. I only bring this up for the interest of those without a permit transporting arms.

[Oh Shoot]

It is my understanding that TN law views a loaded removable magazine as a loaded weapon. It is kinda splitting hairs, and I would think you would have to have a real di(k of a cop to charge you. Conceivably, though, even if you had the firearm and ammo seperated but the ammo was in a drop out mag, you still legally have a loaded weapon. I only bring this up for the interest of those without a permit transporting arms.

Yes, that's in a definition of "unloaded".

Whether it was syntax blunder or intended, it is indeed there. Never heard of anyone charged with "loaded gun" because of it though; several LEOs on site weren't aware of it, which I expect is the case statewide, that they are not even instructed that it is part of the law to be enforced.

- OS

Edited July 14, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest Matt Pavo]

I car carried for a while in college since my room-mate said he would break the lease if I brought a gun into our apartment (our apartment allowed guns btw). This meant I had to walk to campus, since it is illegal for student's to even leave a gun in the car. I also always worried about having my car being broken into. Nevertheless I felt better knowing I had access to a gun in case of a crime spree, and I was frequently on the interstate during the weekend.

[Daps]

I carry every where except schools or government building.

I worked retail part time years ago and I used a smart carry while working.

At my currect job I pocket carry a .380 it's small and blends well. No one even pays attention but where I work there are way more women than men and I don't plan on getting shot up over some woman messing around on her old man.

[jeepbus]

In TN you can be fired for any reason not directly relating to being a member of a federally protected class. Handgun bearers do not comprise any of those classes. The reason does not even have to be disclosed.

Your wrong on this one ,even though Tennessee is a right to work state, your employer still has to give you grounds for termination and a reason. If they didn't ,then everyone that got fired or terminated would be where? At the unemployment office getting benefits that might not be due to them. I deal with employees all day,and you better do it right or you will have the EEOC on you and their Lawyers for hurting someone's feeling when you terminate them,even if they were the worst employee in the world. The right to work thing is in the toilet. With the economy in the toilet people look for the easier wy to get money.

Sent from my Damn iPad using Tapatalk

[DaveS]

I think if your employer states in your "Employee Agreement" or Company Policy that "weapons are not permitted on Company Property", and you are found with a "weapon"...I think it's Sin'Loi Victor Charlie for you my friend!

Dave

Sent via a campfire and an old injun blanket.

[Oh Shoot]

Your wrong on this one ,even though Tennessee is a right to work state, your employer still has to give you grounds for termination and a reason. If they didn't ,then everyone that got fired or terminated would be where? At the unemployment office getting benefits that might not be due to them.

I didn't suggest that the terminated employee couldn't get unemployment if no reason is given. Most people are simply fired for incompetence, yet whether that is specified or not, incompetence is not a reason to deny unemployment either.

I deal with employees all day,and you better do it right or you will have the EEOC on you and their Lawyers

Then you should well know that the EEOC only has power regarding discrimination (and whistle blowers) regarding the federally protected classes, which I stated as an exception.

If you actually work in HR in some form, it's surprising you mention Right to Work -- this little side topic has nothing to do with that whatsoever, but rather, At Will Employment. Without a very specific contract to the contrary, union agreement, or discrimination as previously mentioned, this is the principle that determines employment in TN.

- OS

Edited July 16, 2012 by OhShoot

[wk05]

Quick question, if I do not have a Concealed Carry Permit, what are the regulations for keeping a weapon in the vehicle. I know that the gun and ammo have to be separate, but does that mean a pistol locked in the glove box and a loaded magazine in the trunk inside of a toolbox is okay? Just curious.

[robbiev]

Quick question, if I do not have a Concealed Carry Permit, what are the regulations for keeping a weapon in the vehicle. I know that the gun and ammo have to be separate, but does that mean a pistol locked in the glove box and a loaded magazine in the trunk inside of a toolbox is okay? Just curious.

Very basically, the gun can't be loaded and it can't be accessible. In the trunk is probably your best bet. However, for reference, here is what federal law says (and TN abides by fed law on this):

§ 926A, see also Article VI, U.S. Constitution, Supremacy Clause

During the transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammo being transported is readily or directly accessible from the passenger compartment, or

b.

In the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm and ammo shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

§ 926A, see also Article VI, U.S. Constitution, Supremacy Clause

[bbeck]

I pocket carry at my job, we used work behind closed doors but they now have an open door policy so anyone off the street/former employees/jealous husbands can just walk in. It is against company policy to have a "weapon". I value my life more than I value that policy.

This is how I feel as well. I have met with our hr department about changing our policies with no luck. I value my life more than their policy. I carry in waist band daily. Everywhere all the time period.

Sent from my ARCHOS 70it2 using Tapatalk 2

[plank white]

I work for myself now but back when I was in the Union my brother and I had to go to quite a few jobs where we couldnt carry we always kept ours under the back seat it isnt supposed to lift up but we loosened the clips and there was plenty of room to fit both of ours without tearing apart the car you wouldnt have found them .

Also had one job at a No guns in vehicles facility where we would park outside the gate and walk in we told our superviser from day one and showed our permits and told him thats why we park outside the gate he was real cool about it and had no problem . Ofcourse if he did we wouldve got back on the list and found a job elswhwere.

[Guest Glockster27]

I have my weapon on me all the time. If I have to go into a place that has restrictions I have a small lockbox in my car. I don't like to use it but it is there if I have to.

[hornett22]

I have had many jobs. I have never had my person or my vehicle searched. EVER.

I have had my pistol discovered in my tool box when I was a mechanic. I was told they though it was nice knowing I had it there.

[gregintenn]

Anyboy here work at a place where your vehicle has been searched? The only place I know of that happening is at our local high school. I don't belive they search employees' vehicles there; just students. When my children get old enough to drive, I'll be stirring up quite a stink over that.