Question about AR's vs. AK's

[dbla]

So, I finally feel like I am squared away when it comes to handguns... I'm positive that will change, but in the meantime I can dream about moving onto getting long guns. Here's my question:

I am a lefty, I've been researching AR's and really am digging some Del Tons as well as some DPMSs, looking mostly at Sub 700$ guns as starters that I can tinker with as I go. Don't have a huge budget, and the money comes slowly as a freelancer...

It seems that unless I want to buy a specialized "lefty" AR I'm going to deal with inconveniently placed controls for my particular disposition as well as gases being blown into my face and all sorts of other things that seem super enjoyable and fun to me.

Now AK's seem interesting to me, particularly a Saiga in .308 that I fuss with for a bit, then convert to an AK when time and cash allow. This seems like it would be a little more ergonomic for me, large bolt on the right side, and a central mag release. Not to mention being able to convert it into a really great firearm myself with some elbow grease and wrenching would give me a really great sense of ownership over the gun... Just a thought.

I should say that I have never fired either, never had the opportunity... So anything I am saying is coming from armchair speculation.

Thoughts?

[TN Outlaw]

Sub 700$ Ar get a S&W MP 15 sport...... if you go the AK route i would Convert a 7.62x39 Saiga could build your own for around 600 and it would be a great quality gun with the parts of your choosing

Edited June 5, 2012 by TN Outlaw

[ShamGlock]

Doesn't Stag make a pretty decent line of lefty AR's? For your price point I would look hard at the M&P Sport or you could go the route I did and order a great little kit from Palmetto State Armory and assemble it yourself. I have found it to be a great way to get into the platform.

[peejman]

As a general rule, the AR will be more accurate than the AK. I believe Stag is your best bet for lefty AR's. A friend has one and really likes it. There will be little cost difference between a budget AR and a converted Saiga. I shot a .308 Saiga a while back... it was awesome, though the neighbors didn't much care for it. The .308 will cost about twice as much to shoot as a 5.56. The real bargain is an AK74.

[kwe45919]

_{After having a .308 Saiga with a POSP scope (which Peejman and fellow TGO members shot) , and now owning an AR, I can honestly say that the AR is lighter and shoots better than the Saiga and costs less to feed. Premium ammo for the .308 is definatly costly and doesn't do much better than the steel cased cheap stuff out of the Saiga. However the 5.56 premium stuff can still be costly but you KNOW from years of data what it has the capability of doing out of an AR platform. Yes there is data on the .308 round but not much from a 16in Saiga .308. There still could be unknowns from an AK platform. I absolutly loved my Saiga but it was an unconventional heavy weapon with expensive mags and ammo. It would a killer gun to "dig in" with but not if you had to run. If you want a .308, get one in "AR" or "bolt" flavor and leave the Saiga till next time}

_{Just my .02}

Edited June 5, 2012 by kwe45919

[Dolomite_supafly]

With an AK the inaccuracy has more to do with crap ammo than anything else.

I tore down a bunch of steel cased commercial ammo. ALL bullets were .308" while the AK requires a .311" bullet to shoot well. Another big problem with commercial ammo is the inconsistency of the ammo. It took me 40 bullets before I had 5 that had the same weight bullet. They vaired buy a lot. There there was the powder charges that also varied wildly.

When I was overseas we had Afghans hit man sized steel targets at 350 ayrd 7 out of 10 time. But we had quality ammo. And just so you know the AK's were Soviet vintage from the nvasion in the 80's. I do know that one in particular was fated from the 50's and still shot very well.

I decided to load up 5 rounds of Tula. I used the same bullet weights and same powder charges. I fired it out of my 7.62x39 bolt gun and it was a 1 hole group at 100 yards. The factory ammo grouped over 2" if I remember correctly. It was at least that big, if not bigger.

With that beign said I am an AR guy through and through.

Dolomite

[TMF]

Save up and get a lefty AR. My uncle has one and he loves it. If price is an issue keep your eyes peeled for used ones being sold online. I can bet there are few people out there that shoot out the rifling on their ARs so there is nothing wrong with buying used.

[atlas3025]

I am new to AK's, having recently just acquired my first, and I really like it.

I have built many AR's over the years, and have a ton of experience with them, and obviously love them.

As far as the notion of "coverting it to a really great firearm" yourself goes...I think you will have a lot more success doing that with an AR than an AK. While both are great guns, things just fit together easier on the AR. Again, I have practically no experience with the AK, but from looking and playing with mine vs. my AR's, I get the feeling that there are a lot of "non-standard" parts out there that may or may not work on any given AK, whereas that is rarely the case with an AR. I believe there is a lot more consistency in terms of standardization among manufacturers with AR's than AK's.

With the AK, if I wanted to get "funky" with it, I get the sense I would need to use the dremmel or torch a great deal.

Others who are more experienced with AK's may disagree.

[Dolomite_supafly]

For what most people are going to change both platforms are essentially the same.

I mean swapping stocks are both easy. Swapping forearms are just as easy. Swapping grips are just as easy. And although the AK trigger is a little more difficult it isn't that bad. Swapping muzzle devices goes to the AK

It is, without a doubt, easier to swap a barrel on an AR. But other than that they are about equal in ease of modifying.

Dolomite

[dbla]

Hmm... still not positive what I want... I looked into the Stag Arms and it looks like I'd be around $1k for my first AR, a little steeper than I was wanting... I wonder if I could/should build my AR with a Stag Upper.... Would that have the lefty mag release and forward assist?

[viscero]

I just got through building a lefty AR for my wife based on a stag upper. Great all around but some things I have learned in the process regarding lefty's and AR's might be helpful to you. So long as whatever, normal, upper you get has the shell deflector on it then it shouldn't be too big of a deal for most people. My wife even admitted that the amount of gasses that travel out of my right-handed AR don't really bother her. Also, if you have normal size fingers/hands an ambi mag and bolt release are not needed really either as both are fairly easy to reach while operating the weapon from the left hand. What has been invaluable to her has been a left handed extended charging handle(Badger Ordanance) and ambi selector(stag arms, dpms, troy ind., etc). If you want to mix and match there will be opinions all over the place on what type of upper and lower to go with but if you want a complete rifle that doesn't break the bank then you're probably looking at dpms or S&W. It is VERY easy to fly right past the $700-800 limit though. IF you find yourself in that position then I would suggest Stag(with the upgraded M4 options), Spikes, Wyndham(the old Bushmaster crew), or my personal fave Armalite. A couple hundred more past that and you are in the Colt arena. Just my $.02

[dbla]

I just got through building a lefty AR for my wife based on a stag upper. Great all around but some things I have learned in the process regarding lefty's and AR's might be helpful to you. So long as whatever, normal, upper you get has the shell deflector on it then it shouldn't be too big of a deal for most people. My wife even admitted that the amount of gasses that travel out of my right-handed AR don't really bother her. Also, if you have normal size fingers/hands an ambi mag and bolt release are not needed really either as both are fairly easy to reach while operating the weapon from the left hand. What has been invaluable to her has been a left handed extended charging handle(Badger Ordanance) and ambi selector(stag arms, dpms, troy ind., etc). If you want to mix and match there will be opinions all over the place on what type of upper and lower to go with but if you want a complete rifle that doesn't break the bank then you're probably looking at dpms or S&W. It is VERY easy to fly right past the $700-800 limit though. IF you find yourself in that position then I would suggest Stag(with the upgraded M4 options), Spikes, Wyndham(the old Bushmaster crew), or my personal fave Armalite. A couple hundred more past that and you are in the Colt arena. Just my $.02

Good tips all the way around. What I NEED to do is go out and shoot a couple AR's so I know from experience what I prefer. I'll have to see if I can bum some trigger squeezes off the guys at CHMR next time I'm there.

-a

[viscero]

Definitely. Get some trigger time on a righty and see if it really bothers you that much. Most people complain about hot shell casings more than the gasses. So as long as you're running with the shell deflector bump on your upper most people don't have an issue. Now, this is entirely based on semi auto. If you rock and roll one the gasses would probably be a different story. And again, nothing wrong with just wanting a lefty upper; it will just cost more is all.

[trevorst]

I'm left handed, never had a problem with an AR.... None of mine are lefty, then again none of my bolt guns are either.

Maybe now subconsciously I should have a problem lol.

[dbla]

Okay so now the question is, who wants to meet me at CHMR and let me run some ammo through their AR ;-) I'll bring the boolits.

[~48_South~]

I shoot lefty and have only had one left handed gun in my life.AR,AK,FAL,Mini 14,ACR,SCAR,SWD M11/9 SMG,and Several M1A'S(Which even say in the manual not to shoot lefty) have all been right handed and I have never had any gas blowback or any problems with getting hit in the face with casings,so as far as your shooting experience go's with a righty you should be perfectly fine. That being said I have never shot one of the "Sport" AR's without forward assist and missing the case deflector so it might be a different story there.

Edited June 5, 2012 by ~48_South~

[dbla]

Yeah I'm thinking a case deflector may be key.

[MiddTennTaco]

Okay so now the question is, who wants to meet me at CHMR and let me run some ammo through their AR ;-) I'll bring the boolits.

I have an AR you can shoot. Where in TN are you? Im in Murfreesboro but I head to the Woodbury range often.

Sent from my HTC Inspire using Tapatalk 2

[dbla]

I have an AR you can shoot. Where in TN are you? Im in Murfreesboro but I head to the Woodbury range often.

I'm in Nashville, where's the Woodbury range? I'm up for a drive to scare some paper.

[TMF]

Yeah I'm thinking a case deflector may be key.

It's pretty standard now having the brass deflector on the receiver. I don't think it's really necessary to have a L handed AR for left handers, I just took it to mean in your earlier post that you want you mag release and bolt release on the right hand side. If that is not an issue there are plenty of good quality ARs that you can put an ambi safety in and tac latch on.

[Oh Shoot]

...That being said I have never shot one of the "Sport" AR's without forward assist and missing the case deflector so it might be a different story there.

Yeah I'm thinking a case deflector may be key.

M&P Sport has case deflector molded into upper like this style (location 7):

Or y'all mean something else?

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

The Sport HAS a case deflector but it missing the forward assist and dust cover.

The Sport is the best gun available for under $900. And I am suprised they are not asking a lot more because they are great gun with great features.

Dolomite

[viscero]

where/what is CHMR?

[dbla]

where/what is CHMR?

Charlie Haffner Memorial Range.

[~48_South~]

M&P Sport has case deflector molded into upper like this style (location 7):

Or y'all mean something else?

- OS

Yep thats what I was talking about, I have seen a few without the deflector not sure who made them maybe dpms.