Boss wants me to get Amred Security License..

[Guest tcampbell]

I work at this place on weekends and the owner (my boss) let's me carry. He would like for me to get my armed security license. I do not and cannot act as a security guard on a carry permit and I explained why that is to him. I carry because we get off work in the middle of the night. He wants me to stay under-cover and still function at my job as I normally would, with the exception that I would also be armed security for the business. He has offered to pay for all costs. I think this is a pretty good deal. Looking for others opinions.....

[Punisher84]

He would have to get licensed with the state to employ someone inside the company as any type of security. He'd actually be better off just letting you carry if it's not against any company policy with the new castle doctrine extending to businesses. Unless he wants you making arrests etc. Then he should either change your job function or hire an outside company.

[Guest tcampbell]

I believe he already is...he used to hire off-duty police at one time, then went to security guards for a while. Right now he has no guards...just 2 of us that have our carry permits. He won't carry a gun himself though.

[Guest tcampbell]

question then...being that the castle doctrine now protects businesses and I work for him, would I be protected under that castle doctrine...or is that too fine of a line. It is not against company policy for us to carry....he just wants to know who does carry while working and I don't have a issue with that. He owns the company.

I would most likely never be making an arrest. Let's just say there are some famous people that come there and he just feels more comfortable if an employee or 2 are armed, just in case something would ever happen.

Edited May 9, 2008 by tcampbell

[saintsfanbrian]

If he has his permit, he should carry. Especially if you are getting off late at night and there is money on the premises.

If he is planning on you being responsible for holding people until police arrives I would think he should classify your job as such.

You should be able to take the classes at the local range that gives the Carry Permit classes I would think. I don't know the details.

What type of business is it?

[Punisher84]

question then...being that the castle doctrine now protects businesses and I work for him, would I be protected under that castle doctrine...or is that too fine of a line.

As an employee or guard? As an employee yes. As a guard you're going to be held to a somewhat higher standard, but fear for your life is fear for your life.

[John Wall]

This is a fine line you do NOT want to cross. If you are carrying the firearm as part of your job, you are a Security Guard, and the State wants it's money,,,er,, I mean you must have an Armed Guard License and work for a Contract Security Company.

Things will go fine until you have to use your firearm, and once your boss discovers the vicarious liability attached to this, he will throw you to the wolves.

Tell him to get a Contract Security Company. I know some of the honchos for Advanced Protective Services. Talk to Brent White. Tell him I said hello. These guys are SHEEPDOGS, and will protect the flock (you, your boss and company assets)

http://www.besafe247.com/inside.htm

[Guest tcampbell]

If he has his permit, he should carry. Especially if you are getting off late at night and there is money on the premises.

If he is planning on you being responsible for holding people until police arrives I would think he should classify your job as such.

You should be able to take the classes at the local range that gives the Carry Permit classes I would think. I don't know the details.

What type of business is it?

The owner doesn't have his permit and won't get one. I do though, and I am one of the last ones out. This is a music type business. (not a bar)

I was thinking of taking the class at Academy of Self Protection in Springfield....I won't take the class from Buford. Guns and Leather is offering the class now also. My boss will pay 100% of the costs.

[Guest tcampbell]

This is a fine line you do NOT want to cross. If you are carrying the firearm as part of your job, you are a Security Guard, and the State wants it's money,,,er,, I mean you must have an Armed Guard License and work for a Contract Security Company.

Things will go fine until you have to use your firearm, and once your boss discovers the vicarious liability attached to this, he will throw you to the wolves.

Tell him to get a Contract Security Company. I know some of the honchos for Advanced Protective Services. Talk to Brent White. Tell him I said hello. These guys are SHEEPDOGS, and will protect the flock (you, your boss and company assets)

http://www.besafe247.com/inside.htm

I am not carrying it as part of my job. I am allowed to carry at work as opposed to leaving it locked up in the car at work. If I am walking out at 2-3 am and someone comes at me in a situation involving deadly force there or anywhere else, I will protect myself. That is why I have a carry permit...to protect myself and my family. He won't get a contract security company...he used to have one and doesn't want to go that route. I think it is a pretty good deal if he wants to pay for my license and the class and he takes care of the business aspect. This is actually for only a few hours on the weekend...this is a part time job for me. I was told by someone that gives the class that you do not have to work for a contract security company to work as a security guard. I have even spoken with security guards that I know that have worked as security for different places without being with a contract security company....mainly under cover..most of them in jewelry stores.

Edited May 9, 2008 by tcampbell

[Guest tcampbell]

If I am working for him as an employee, he does not have to go through a contract security company. He does however have to file with the State as a proprietary security organization.

From the State website:

“Proprietary Security Organization†means any person or department thereof which employs a security guard/officer solely for such person in an employer/employee relationship.

It is unlawful for any person to act as a proprietary security organization without first having notified the commissioner in writing.

Business Information

• Full name of business.
  
• Mailing address for business.
  
• Physical address of business.
  
• Type and number of guards the business intends to hire:
  
  • Unarmed
    
  • Armed
    (AND/OR)
    
  • Full-time sworn peace officers
    

Qualifying Manager Information

• Full name of Qualifying Manager.
  
• Business address of Qualifying Manager.
  
• Residence address of Qualifying Manager.
  

A Certificate of Insurance that meets the requirements of:

• T.C.A. § 62-35-114 [pdf]
  

Renewals

• PSO Registrations do not expire, as long as the Proprietary Security Organization maintains a Certificate of Insurance that meets the requirements set in T.C.A. § 62-35-114.
  

[Guest canynracer]

I would say go for it....get your armed license, let him work out the details..you will learn all of this stuff during your cert course.

in the meantime, pistol packing employee...no problem

[John Wall]

Although the above info was pasted from the state website, TCA 62-35-103 ( indicates that a proprietary guard may be unarmed only.

There are possible inconsistencies in several aspects of firearms carry for both Armed Professionals and Citizens. YOU will be the one paying for a lawyer to sort this out!

To avoid an expensive mis step, call Peggy Smith at 741 6382. She is with the Tn Dept of Commerce and Insurance Private Protective service. They are going though some revamp and Peggy has the latest news. The newest edition of "Tn Private Protective Service Law and Rules" is from 2004.

[Guest tcampbell]

An unarmed guard is a joke. I think I will just forget about going for this. I am permitted to carry at work for MY protection to and from work. I am allowed to carry at work because my boss would rather me not leave a firearm in my vehicle. I do not and will not act as a security guard at work. However, employee or not, if someone comes in and pulls a gun or threatens other deadly force, by law I am allowed to act in my defense and the defense of others.

[Guest tcampbell]

This is a fine line you do NOT want to cross. If you are carrying the firearm as part of your job, you are a Security Guard,

John, I never stated I was carrying a firearm as part of my job. I am not carrying a firearm as part of my job. Again, I am carrying a firearm for my protection to and from work. I am permitted to have my firearm at work as opposed to leaving it in the vehicle. I don't think that is an issue. If it was...then it would be an issue at gun shops. The people that work at gun shops are not security guards...they are employees, owners, etc. That is exactly what I am.

[TripleDigitRide]

However, employee or not, if someone comes in and pulls a gun or threatens other deadly force, by law I am allowed to act in my defense and the defense of others.

Very good idea.

[Punisher84]

An unarmed guard is a joke.

It depends on the guard/officer. There are certain places firearms are just not needed for security work. Of course the case can usually be made for proper training of said guards/officers.

I work proprietary unarmed for an undisclosed company/location right now and carry every thing except a firearm and trust me...I'm far from defenseless. I wouldn't mind being armed, but you can get by. Guards/Officers in the security field tend to be few and far between that can actually employ good sense in a confrontation and having an untrained person with an exposed firearm in a "law enforcement" role is bad news.

I digress though.

[Guest grimel]

question then...being that the castle doctrine now protects businesses and I work for him, would I be protected under that castle doctrine...or is that too fine of a line. It is not against company policy for us to carry....he just wants to know who does carry while working and I don't have a issue with that. He owns the company.

I would most likely never be making an arrest. Let's just say there are some famous people that come there and he just feels more comfortable if an employee or 2 are armed, just in case something would ever happen.

Being a security guard gives you ZERO police power. You are paid to be a good witness. The only difference between an armed and unarmed security guard is an armed guard can shoot back IF he (or a third party) is in danger of death or grievious bodily harm.

He would have LESS liability making company policy against carrying illegal weapons and letting those with a HCP protect themself and those around him.

[John Wall]

Dear TC Campbell

That is your story and you stick to it!!

Dear Punisher

Well said.

Dear Grimel

Security Officers have the SAME power of arrest as that afforded a private citizen.

[Fallguy]

It sounds like getting the Armed Security License would be the way to go, but let me ask you this.

You are already employed there, you are there legally armed. You already have a legal right to defend yourself and third persons (if you choose to), so what exactly is he wanting you to do different than what you do or can do now? Is he wanting to give you the title of and/or pay you as a security guard?

[Guest tcampbell]

Actually, I get paid more than a security guard. I would still function at my job as I normally do. I think he wants to avoid that fine line. He just brought it up last weekend. He said he would take care of all costs and the insurance. I'll speak with him again tonite. If he still wants to do it, then I will contact Peggy at the State to help him get the ball rolling...or not....depending on what Peggy says.

Thanks John...and what I stated are the facts

[Guest tcampbell]

It depends on the guard/officer. There are certain places firearms are just not needed for security work. Of course the case can usually be made for proper training of said guards/officers.

I work proprietary unarmed for an undisclosed company/location right now and carry every thing except a firearm and trust me...I'm far from defenseless. I wouldn't mind being armed, but you can get by. Guards/Officers in the security field tend to be few and far between that can actually employ good sense in a confrontation and having an untrained person with an exposed firearm in a "law enforcement" role is bad news.

I digress though.

Punisher...I was referring more to "mall ninja type security". To me...even if your licensed as unarmed...but can still carry a baton, spray, etc...then you are still armed in a sense that you can protect yourself. The unarmed security I am referring to are the people that carry nothing and can do nothing. I agree with you on the "law enforcement" thing too...

[Punisher84]

Punisher...I was referring more to "mall ninja type security". To me...even if your licensed as unarmed...but can still carry a baton, spray, etc...then you are still armed in a sense that you can protect yourself. The unarmed security I am referring to are the people that carry nothing and can do nothing. I agree with you on the "law enforcement" thing too...

Definitely agreed. I may have come across heavy handed. If I did I apologize. You seem to have got what I was pointing at though.