Interesting take on Zimmerman/Martin and carrying handloads

[BryanP]

Yes, I know he wasn't carrying reloads. Good article anyway.

The really short summary: the forensics folks will be using identical ammo to recreate the shot. With reloads this is effectively not possible and could negatively affect your defense if you're ever involved in a SD shooting incident. He goes into more detail and explains it better.

http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/2167be380c971d751694131258750ec5-1028.html

[kwe45919]

Interesting knowledge to keep in mind. I have always used/bought factory loads for SD/HD unless I buy "reloaded" from someone like GeorgiaArms which is usually just range rounds anyways.

[RobertNashville]

I've head a number of people knowledgeable about such things indicate that you should use factory ammunition for your defensive weapon. Of course, you use what you have at the time but at least in weapons you carry/have available for defense it's best to use factory ammo. I believe it has something to do with how hot the load is - with a re-load, a prosecution could argue that your load was hotter than necessary and infer intent on your part to kill rather than to "stop the threat".

[Grunt67]

My PD/SD load is the same as my duty carry, Rem. Golden Saber 180 gr. JHP 40 S&W. Leaves no room for argument

as to hot loads, etc.

On the other hand. if that wasn't available for whatever reason, and the SHTF, I'll use whatever is handy. I'd rather

argue in court than the morgue.

[Garufa]

It's very simple. Carry factory ammo in a defense gun. Why give some hotshot lawyer (or DA) a technicality to dispute if you ever find yourself in court just for the sake of saving a few dollars?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I think its a good idea to carry factory ammo for whatever lessening of liability that might cause in the eye of prosecutor, grand jury, judge, jury. On the other hand, unless a reloader is very flakey in his habits, dunno why reloads would prevent scientific forensic testing. Ferinstance I have about 1000 9mm XTP HP 124gn reloads put up for a rainy day. They are loaded very close to same velocity as the factory XTP rounds. But IF I carried handloads and IF I was unfortunate enough to have to defend myself, well geez, if they can't do adequately scientific tests on the other 999 rounds loaded just the same in the same batch, then how many rounds would they need?

Edited June 10, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[BryanP]

I think its a good idea to carry factory ammo for whatever lessening of liability that might cause in the eye of prosecutor, grand jury, judge, jury. On the other hand, unless a reloader is very flakey in his habits, dunno why reloads would prevent scientific forensic testing. Ferinstance I have about 1000 9mm XTP HP 124gn reloads put up for a rainy day. They are loaded very close to same velocity as the factory XTP rounds. But IF I carried handloads and IF I was unfortunate enough to have to defend myself, well geez, if they can't do adequately scientific tests on the other 999 rounds loaded just the same in the same batch, then how many rounds would they need?

The answer to your question is outlined at the linked article.

[Guest RevScottie]

There is no guarantee that factory ammo doesn't vary from batch to batch either so how can you ever be sure that there will be a match to what you are carrying available?

[RobertNashville]

There is no guarantee that factory ammo doesn't vary from batch to batch either so how can you ever be sure that there will be a match to what you are carrying available?

True, no guarantees and also true, there are no guarantees about matching expected performance but if it's factory ammunition then there is no question about how the rounds are supposed to be loaded/performance of the round. I believe the issue is that with factory ammo, law enforcement/prosecution has no basis to claim that the shooter purposely used ammunition with a hotter load than "normal" or show intent to do more than stop the threat.

It may seem a trivial matter to firearm enthusiasts but trivial matters can make the difference between being found guilty or even charged with a crime at all.

Edited June 10, 2012 by RobertNashville

[nightrunner]

Using the logic of not using loads hotter than normal, no one should ever use +p or buffalo bore ammo.

[gregintenn]

So, should I only hunt deer with factory ammo in case I have a dispute about some regulation with the game warden? Should I only let the dealer change the oil in my car in case I am involved in an accident? The article is ridiculous. I'd like to read of a real world example where handloaded ammunition was the determining factor in a shooting trial.

[DaveTN]

The article is ridiculous. I'd like to read of a real world example where handloaded ammunition was the determining factor in a shooting trial.

I have asked for the same thing before and never saw it and have never heard of it in a criminal trial. Not saying it hasn’t been brought up, anything can be thrown against the wall to see if it sticks. In a criminal trial you will be judged on whether or not deadly force was justified.

Now a civil case is a different matter. You have an ND/AD or shoot an innocent bystander and end up in civil court and everything is up for grabs. You using some crazy hot load or reload can impact the punitive damages the jury awards against you.

I also don’t buy into his “Since the court will likely not let the remaining ammunition in the gun be shot (that would be destruction of evidence), they'll need to get exemplar rounds (rounds which match exactly the ammunition used) to make those tests.â€

If they want to shoot it for test purposes I would think they would do it. Other ammo would not be a good choice.

Edited June 10, 2012 by DaveTN

[Makiaveli]

So, should I only hunt deer with factory ammo in case I have a dispute about some regulation with the game warden? Should I only let the dealer change the oil in my car in case I am involved in an accident? The article is ridiculous. I'd like to read of a real world example where handloaded ammunition was the determining factor in a shooting trial.

The jury could easily have no one on it with any knowledge of firearms, and if they believe the other side's "expert" more than yours.....

Also by your logic, I shouldn't worry about a SHTF scenario here in the US because it's never happened before....

Heck for that matter, I shouldn't bother getting a carry permit because I've never been shot during a "situation". Just stabbed once, so all I really need is a bigger knife.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Makiaveli