HCP Range Test Question

[Guest kcb37]

Guess I have been around people and guns long enough and here long enough to know.

I realize the whole class thing seems to be a money thing. It really shouldn't be.

I am not really suprised but wonder about all of those who say don't worry about what your going to carry, just shoot what's easy.

Even in my class alone I would have picked out several that should not touch a gun of any kind. Let alone any of them being able to even hit anything.

Alot of people are going with smaller guns now that are not very accurate cause they can hide them. Why can't they learn to shoot them?

I passed just fine with a Ruger LCP, and have no problem carrying it or shooting it if the situation arises. This also comes with knowing the limitations of the poistol.

There are alot of people that are not that smart.

While I would like to say that HCP holders go thru a class and all that good stuff, it's not worth any thing and I myself as an HCP holder have no faith if any HCP holder I do not know personally.

Guns left setting out around the house loaded with children present, HCP holders having to look to make sure their gun is unloaded (good practice but you should always know your gun is loaded, chambered, or unloaded, the check is a safety).

I will agree with the saying guns don't kill people, stupid people who have access to guns kill people. HCP holders included.

If your going to carry a gun, you need to know how to shoot that gun, no reason you can use it for the test. The state may think it's bull, but why do we?

Seems like everyone here want's to put HCP holders up as the best law abiding citizens (which alot are) yet so many seem like a pure gun freak that could not live without a gun. Granted protection is the idea, but if that was not an issue.

To many people have a gun and have no idea or care how to use it properly.

[Guest bkelm18]

Guess I have been around people and guns long enough and here long enough to know.

I realize the whole class thing seems to be a money thing. It really shouldn't be.

I am not really suprised but wonder about all of those who say don't worry about what your going to carry, just shoot what's easy.

Even in my class alone I would have picked out several that should not touch a gun of any kind. Let alone any of them being able to even hit anything.

Alot of people are going with smaller guns now that are not very accurate cause they can hide them. Why can't they learn to shoot them?

I passed just fine with a Ruger LCP, and have no problem carrying it or shooting it if the situation arises. This also comes with knowing the limitations of the poistol.

There are alot of people that are not that smart.

While I would like to say that HCP holders go thru a class and all that good stuff, it's not worth any thing and I myself as an HCP holder have no faith if any HCP holder I do not know personally.

Guns left setting out around the house loaded with children present, HCP holders having to look to make sure their gun is unloaded (good practice but you should always know your gun is loaded, chambered, or unloaded, the check is a safety).

I will agree with the saying guns don't kill people, stupid people who have access to guns kill people. HCP holders included.

If your going to carry a gun, you need to know how to shoot that gun, no reason you can use it for the test. The state may think it's bull, but why do we?

Seems like everyone here want's to put HCP holders up as the best law abiding citizens (which alot are) yet so many seem like a pure gun freak that could not live without a gun. Granted protection is the idea, but if that was not an issue.

To many people have a gun and have no idea or care how to use it properly.

The HCP class has never been and never will be a class on how to use a gun. The instructors there are not there to teach you how to use a gun. It's an unnecessary class full of unnecessary things. The class portion is outdated. The shooting portion is easy enough a monkey could do it. If you want a class to learn about using a gun, take one that is geared toward that. Otherwise just bring whatever gun you are most comfortable with to the HCP class. If that is your carry gun great, if not, great. Pass your tests, get your permit, then continue on with real training.

[JayC]

First, the entire class system is make work... corporate welfare for ranges, instructors, and the finger printing companies... and make work for TDOS, a way to add employees without having to get more money from the legislature. How do we know it's make work? Because 99+% of people who take the class pass.

Second, I'm not worried about HCP holders... There is a little know stat about shootings, an average citizen (and we know how little firearms training the average citizen has had) is 5 times less likely to shoot and kill an innocent person in a self defense situation than a police officer.

Third, the VAST majority of adults can pickup a handgun and hit targets at 3 yards all day long with little or no training... That is why we all want handguns they are the great equalizer, they require very little training, and work for just about anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together.

I see the argument for keeping the permit system in place to allow people who want to to carry in other states, but we should adopt constitutional carry, if you can buy it, you can carry it.

Guess I have been around people and guns long enough and here long enough to know.

I realize the whole class thing seems to be a money thing. It really shouldn't be.

I am not really suprised but wonder about all of those who say don't worry about what your going to carry, just shoot what's easy.

Even in my class alone I would have picked out several that should not touch a gun of any kind. Let alone any of them being able to even hit anything.

Alot of people are going with smaller guns now that are not very accurate cause they can hide them. Why can't they learn to shoot them?

I passed just fine with a Ruger LCP, and have no problem carrying it or shooting it if the situation arises. This also comes with knowing the limitations of the poistol.

There are alot of people that are not that smart.

While I would like to say that HCP holders go thru a class and all that good stuff, it's not worth any thing and I myself as an HCP holder have no faith if any HCP holder I do not know personally.

Guns left setting out around the house loaded with children present, HCP holders having to look to make sure their gun is unloaded (good practice but you should always know your gun is loaded, chambered, or unloaded, the check is a safety).

I will agree with the saying guns don't kill people, stupid people who have access to guns kill people. HCP holders included.

If your going to carry a gun, you need to know how to shoot that gun, no reason you can use it for the test. The state may think it's bull, but why do we?

Seems like everyone here want's to put HCP holders up as the best law abiding citizens (which alot are) yet so many seem like a pure gun freak that could not live without a gun. Granted protection is the idea, but if that was not an issue.

To many people have a gun and have no idea or care how to use it properly.

[Guest kcb37]

Not trying to argue the fact that the class is a joke, it is. Also like said it's not to teach how to use a handgun.

But you should know how to use your carry gun(s) and be able to pass the class with that gun without an issue. Guess some of it for me is the people who have died from stupidity. Even when nothing "bad" happened it's not cool when a gun goes off cause someone thought it was unloaded.

These are some of the people who can now carry pretty much where ever they want. This does not exclude law enforcement or military. Some people just don't have enough training, or lack the care to properly handle a gun period.

[robbiev]

My instructor gave the impression that the state requiured a certain minimum but he could add additional. Example, we fired three rounds at 3 yds with our offhand and 3 rounds at 7 yds kneeling. Didn't screw anybody up but was a change from what I've heard o0thers describe.

That is correct. The individual training schools/instructors can add questions to the test and can have the student shoot more than the required 48 rounds if they choose to. Most of the instructors that I taught when I did classes just had everybody shoot 50 since that's what comes in a box. Most instructors that I taught with also added at least a couple of questions to the test.

Edited June 5, 2012 by robbiev

[robbiev]

Umm, I'd report said instructor, as state requirements don't list a certain caliber you must qualify with.

The state class and shooting requirements are a complete joke to begin with, nothing but make work and corporate welfare for ranges and instructors.

You are correct in that the state does not specify caliber, however the class syllabus that is provided to the instructors states explicitly that the instructors have the authority to restrict caliber if they choose to. ETA: Or at least it did a couple of years ago. I have not renewed my instructor certification this year because I no longer have time to teach classes.

Edited June 5, 2012 by robbiev

[Guest bkelm18]

Not trying to argue the fact that the class is a joke, it is. Also like said it's not to teach how to use a handgun.

But you should know how to use your carry gun(s) and be able to pass the class with that gun without an issue. Guess some of it for me is the people who have died from stupidity. Even when nothing "bad" happened it's not cool when a gun goes off cause someone thought it was unloaded.

These are some of the people who can now carry pretty much where ever they want. This does not exclude law enforcement or military. Some people just don't have enough training, or lack the care to properly handle a gun period.

So you don't view the bearing of arms as a right? You want there to be requirements for people to exercise their rights? In any case, as I said before, the HCP class is not a test of whether you can handle your gun or not. People who have NEVER held a gun before easily pass the class. What does that say about the class if pretty much anybody can pass it with flying colors?

[Oh Shoot]

...Some people just don't have enough training, or lack the care to properly handle a gun period.

So you're a clear NO on constitutional carry as we have at least to some degree in half the states. Or even think that everyone should be able to own one at all, apparently. So what is your interpretation of "infringement" in 2A?

- OS

Edited June 6, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Actualy..I learned a whole lot in my class..And I shot a perfect score with a gun I do not carry.....explain that?

[Guest pfries]

Actualy..I learned a whole lot in my class..And I shot a perfect score with a gun I do not carry.....explain that?

You are not part of the 98% my mother always referred to....

I am starting to think she was rather conservative with that estimate

[gregintenn]

As everyone else has stated, you could likely throw your gun at the required targets and score enough hits to pass. If you can hit a door at 7 yards, you're pretty much good to go.

[chances R]

The HCP is similar to taking your driver's test. It does not mean proficiency; you have met a minimal requirement (didn't wreck=didn't shoot someone) Both give you the state's blessing to handle something that can get you in serious trouble, or worse......and you gave them $$. The problem is too many people think this means competency. I am a big advocate of additional training. You owe it to yourself and others, especially if you are going to carry outside the home.

[BigK]

As a strict interpretationist, I think requiring permits is a violation of our rights. Too few people agree with me, so I'm stuck with the laws we have. However, I can't help but wonder why the SCOTUS struck down poll tests, but not HCP testing. Seems like any test used to grant rights we should already have are just plain wrong.

If the argument is about public safety, I'd be in favor of dropping the HCP testing and require parenting tests. Afterall, stupid people are much more likely to botch child-rearing than they are to shoot somebody. I see it every day.

Edited June 7, 2012 by BigK

[JAB]

The HCP is similar to taking your driver's test. It does not mean proficiency; you have met a minimal requirement (didn't wreck=didn't shoot someone) Both give you the state's blessing to handle something that can get you in serious trouble, or worse......and you gave them $$. The problem is too many people think this means competency. I am a big advocate of additional training. You owe it to yourself and others, especially if you are going to carry outside the home.

Your post made me think of something...

Most people - even those with HCPs - have probably been driving longer than they have been carrying a gun. I also believe that there are a lot more people who drive daily than those who carry a firearm daily. The folks who do carry likely operate a motor vehicle in public a whole lot more frequently than they will ever need to draw/fire their carry weapon in public - yet while a lot of folks feel that participating in additional, formal training is necessary for responsible handgun carry I don't hear a lot of people stating that drivers should enroll in and complete extensive driving training before they can be considered 'responsible' drivers. Therefore, just as it is possible to be competent and responsible driver without extensive, formal training I would posit that one can competently and responsibly carry a firearm without the necessity of additional training. I'm not saying that additional training is a bad thing, I just don't view it as being as crucial as some believe. Just a thought.

Edited June 7, 2012 by JAB

[Caster]

It's been so long I've 'bout forgot the class I took. Best I remember we had enough stations for each student [wasn't but 5 or 6 of us]. We shot 12/24/12 and I think we were all done in about 20 minutes. I remember we stood around talking and BS'ing more than anything.

[JAB]

Don't bother trying to qualify with what you're going to carry if you don't want to. Just bring whatever gun you shoot best, even if it's a .22. If they won't let you use a .22, go somewhere else. The course is simply a money generator for the state. If you spend any time on here, you'll already know more than what they will teach you in the classroom portion. If you know how to line up your sights and squeeze a trigger, you'll ace the shooting portion.

Exactly. Shoot with whatever you have the best chances of passing with. No reason to shoot your snubnose in the off chance you fail the shooting portion to have to fork over more money for the class again. Practice in your own time, or if you want, pay an instructor to give you a couple lessons with your carry gun of choice. The shooting portion isn't there for you to practice or give you any sort of real world experience, it is there to give sheeple a warm fuzzy feeling that we all are highly trained shooting machines when that often isn't the case.

I agree with both of these statements. I qualified with my 5.5 inch 22A. I have since shot the same 'course of fire' on my own, at the same range, with all of my carry guns. Could I have qualified with what I was going to carry? Yep. So why didn't I? Simple, I didn't have to and didn't want to. Besides, about the only thing that the range qualification proves - even if you use your carry gun - is that if you are being attacked by a flat, featureless, monochromatic assailant that is a sub-waist amputee and lacks the use of his arms then you will be able to defend yourself from him at a myriad of arbitrary distances. Don't get me wrong, I like practicing with B27 targets but my thought is that - at the distances involved - if I can hit a big, paper target with a .22 then I can probably hit it just as well with my 9mm, ,38 and so on.

[Guest kcb37]

I am not saying anything about infringment of our 2A rights. Just that some people forfit and should those rights by their actions. IE, buy the state a felon.

In addition some people are not mature enough, or discplined enough to handle a gun. Given some training many of them would be fine.

Maybe this is just me, but their should never be an accidental shooting. I also realize on a forum it will make the bad stick out as some people search for it, and it's a place to post it in one spot. But even one it to many.

My gun is locked up whenever I do not have it on me. My 6 year old knows not to touch it, still won't leave it out. Much like the toddler that killed themselves, it's just poor discpline. If you don't know check, if you have to check 5 times so be it.

Even so, something as dangerous as a gun you know know 1, where it it, 2 if it has a mag in, 3 if it has a round chambered, 4 if the saftey is on, 5 who can access it, etc....

I have absolutely no care about the majority of people carrying a gun. I do care about those who are careless, or think they are not, but do know full understand what it can do, and how unsafe they are.

My entire point is, some people just need more training. Yes the class sucks, the training really should be done before.

Some people should not be allowed to carry, such as a rapist, or murder, etc...

[chances R]

Your post made me think of something...

Most people - even those with HCPs - have probably been driving longer than they have been carrying a gun. I also believe that there are a lot more people who drive daily than those who carry a firearm daily. The folks who do carry likely operate a motor vehicle in public a whole lot more frequently than they will ever need to draw/fire their carry weapon in public - yet while a lot of folks feel that participating in additional, formal training is necessary for responsible handgun carry I don't hear a lot of people stating that drivers should enroll in and complete extensive driving training before they can be considered 'responsible' drivers. Therefore, just as it is possible to be competent and responsible driver without extensive, formal training I would posit that one can competently and responsibly carry a firearm without the necessity of additional training. I'm not saying that additional training is a bad thing, I just don't view it as being as crucial as some believe. Just a thought.

AND........if people shot as frequently as they drove, it would be a lot different. In the good ol' days, firearms were a necessity of life. Whether for hunting or protection from critters or two-legged predators, they were an everyday tool. Heck, growing up, it was a rare day I didn't shoot a BBgun, sling-shot, firecrakers or a regular gun in the backyard.....inside the city no less. It is a different world now, and firearms are rare items to most, therefore they have not grown up and learned to use them.....or suffer the consequences of improper use. Most who have taken the HCP class are either a. Unconsciously Incompetent= they don't know what they just don't know. or b. Consciously Incompetent= they realize they have some short-comings but live with it and don't bother to train; they feel they are good enough. Unfortunatelly for some, they don't find that out until it is too late.

[aquaman67]

When you see how large the target is you will chuckle.It's huge.

There were several people in my class who literally took their gun out of the box and had the instructor show them how to load it.

They passed.

Someone brought a 2 shot .45 long colt derringer. He passed too.

[CRJCapt]

Thanks for all the replies. Makes me feel much better about passing the range test. I'm no marksman but I can at least hit the close to center about 8 out of 10 rounds.