does this guy have a case???

[Guest springfieldxd.40]

let me give you a little background first I have had my permit for going on four years now. I am a law abiding citizen with no prior record.on october 15th of 2007 i was on my way home with my wife and infant daughter when i was pulled over for speeding. i was only 8 miles over the limit which i had admitted to the officer when he aproached the car. well we did our exchange of info i was polite and expected to be on my way with a ticket or warning. but he proceeds to return to my vehicle and tells me to get out, so I did just as he said. when I was fully out he proceeds to tell me im under arrest, I said theres no way. But I complied. He was unable to give me any information on this charge untill we got to the station this was in smyrny tenn. Well when we got there he then proceeds to tell me that the charge was Agg. Assult that happened back in sept of 2005 mind you i have applied to several jobs and aquired a job driving over the road with TMC I since have come off the road to be with my family.Back to the charge, back in september of 2005 I was in line to pump fuel at the kangaroo mart on rutherford blvd and bradyville pike when this happened there was an individual already at the pump i was facing him and this guy had pulled in behind him. the guy that was pumping gas pulled off and i pulled up. The individual that was behind the guy that just left proceeds to exit his car and and ask me what the hel# my problem was. I just ignored him and finished pumping my gas. Well as i was backing away from the pump i blew him a kiss or fliped him a bird or somthing well he he came flying out of his car screaming what the F is your problem, at the same time this guy is following my car he aproaches my window and is pounding on the glass. My weapon was in my passenger seat and I was reaching in that direction while I was screaming at him to stop! when he saw it he immedetly stopped and walked to his car and i was able to leave. well he went to the police and filled out a report. he proceeds to tell the police that he was pumping gas and I had exchanged words with him and I got out of my vehicle and put the gun in his face and said " I'll Shoot You" and then I drove off. Now im not the brightest guy in the world but someone would have to be stupid or a criminal to pull something like that. I will get the police report and post it word for word when i go home this evening. I am now awaiting trial on may 23 2008 in rutherford county. I am out on bond and all this court stuff is new to me I feel like I was in the right some of you may not agree. I stand about 6'0" and weigh about 145 150 lbs im kinda a small guy. The "victim" stands about 6'0"-6'2" and is about 180 200 lbs. I thought that if this guy breaks this glass he is going to beat the crap out of me!! so please give me some info good or bad i would like some other gun owners info thanks god bless.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I just ignored him and finished pumping my gas.

This should have been your last action, before getting in your car and driving on your way. Had it been, you most likely wouldn't be facing the charges you are now. Not going to rip your ass, but I'm pretty sure you now realize it was a very stupid move flipping him the bird or whatever, just to satisfy the male ego, when you could have easily got in your vehicle and been on your merry way. Especially when you've already stated you were outweighed and potentially overpowered by this guy. So in that point, you've really brought this on yourself regardless of how much of an asshat this guy was/is.

That said... this happened back in 2005. A considerable amount of time has passed, so any witnesses and/or the gas station's video footage is probably long gone. Do you know if this guy even has supposed witnesses? I would think that the police would have tried contacting the gas station for review of their tapes, at the very least, had someone truly stuck a handgun in someone's face.

No such video footage, and no witnesses, could very well play in your favor (i.e. it never happened). It sounds like it will come down to your word vs his word, recounting that day's events. Get a good attorney and follow his directions and scripted line of answers to questioning. You may have to admit you used piss-poor judgement by provoking him further... but never once drew the weapon from the front seat of the vehicle, pointed it in his direction, or even exited your vehicle at that point (if these are true statements). If you had done any of that, it would have been caught on the pump's security cameras.

I think you'll be in the clear, once all is said and done. Hopefully so. But I also hope you learned to keep a cool head next time and not try to have the "last word".

[Mike.357]

Spend more than you can afford on a good attorney. Tell the attorney the truth as you remember it and then keep your freakin mouth shut. The attorney will tell you what to say.

If there is no witness or video evidence of you bringing a gun into play then it did not happen.

When in legal trouble what you are paying for with an attorney is for the attorney's relationship with the court. Thats why I say overspend on an attorney. This relationship alone can have more bearing on outcome of cases more so than facts of the case or actual truth.

I have to agree with Verbal, you should have just drove off. Hindsight is 20-20 too.

[Guest kwikrnu]

Here is what will happen.

When you go to court it will most likely be his word against yours. Is there a video? Most places will have a video camera. Your lawyer should be able to find out. Are there witnesses? Your lawyer should be able to find out from the DA. I'm pretty sure you have the right to review the evidence against you.

IMO, if it is just this guys word against your word you have a good chance of winning. They do have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. You may be able to demand a jury trial as well.

If your income is below a certain level you may be able to get a public defender.

I had a pretty good lawyer defend me the other day. He was cheaper than all I called. His name is Marty Kooperman and is in Nashville. He is a a trial lawyer and deals mainly with criminal charges. That said you may wish to look for an attorney who practices regularly in Murfreesboro and who knows the judge who will be over the case.

If you choose to defend yourself you need to look up hearsay. Hearsay is pretty much anything you cannot cross examine. There is probably not going to be a whole lot of it because the DA is prosecuting, but if you don't have a lawyer they will trick you into saying things you do not have to say because you have no lawyer to protect your interests.

Remember these charges probably need to be dismissed for you to get or keep your HCP. So, you need to win in court to keep your rights.

Good Luck. I don't think you did anything wrong. There are jerks out there who lie and make life difficult.

I know they have deferred adjududication in other states not sure about here. That is where you plead guilty and take anger control classes or something the judge wants you to do. Then the charges are dismissed. You do not want that. I'm pretty sure that makes you ineligible for a permit even though the charges are dismissed or dropped.

Edited May 9, 2008 by kwikrnu

[Magiccarpetrides]

Dude...thats sucks. You better get a lawyer if you havent already just to be safe.

[saintsfanbrian]

WARNING _ I AM NOT A LAWYER!!!!!

There is an old adage - Anyone who represents themselves in a court of law has a fool for a client. It may cost a lot of money but GET A LAWYER. The lawyer will get a continuance since the trial is so close. He will need time to go over all of the evidence that the DA has to turn over to him as full disclosure.

Without "indisputable video evidence" or eye witness testimony there should not be a way to prove with out reasonable doubt that there ever was an assault.

Good luck.

[TGO David]

Expensive lessons are often the best learned. I saw a quote on another gun forum once to the effect of making a choice each morning:

"Ego or Firearm. Pick one to carry. Leave the other at home."

[The Rabbi]

I know Marty Kooperman personally. A fine guy.

I have a friend who owns a c-store (across from the diesel college)and frequently has trouble. I tell him always, the first one to call the police is the victim. That's the rule. So any incident, no matter how trivial like that, better result in a police report from you otherwise its gonna be "some crazy guy with a gun threatened me."

[Guest kwikrnu]

I know Marty Kooperman personally. A fine guy.

I have a friend who owns a c-store (across from the diesel college)and frequently has trouble. I tell him always, the first one to call the police is the victim. That's the rule. So any incident, no matter how trivial like that, better result in a police report from you otherwise its gonna be "some crazy guy with a gun threatened me."

He is a good man.

Did you know that any time 911 is called in Davidson county for a domestic disturbance someone must be arrested? It is my guess that the person who called 911, 9/10 is not the person arrested...

Edited May 9, 2008 by kwikrnu

[creeky]

"Ego or Firearm. Pick one to carry. Leave the other at home."

Words to live by...

[saintsfanbrian]

That is a state thing not just county.

[Punisher84]

I read an article once by Mas Ayoob about 2 guys who got into it outside a movie theater and the permit holder bumped the other guy out of the way, but hit him with his hip that had his gun on it. The guy called the cops and said hey the crazy guy ht me with his gun and threatened to kill me. Agg. assault. The guy got off, but spent alot of time and money doing it. Hate that its happening to you, but this is definitely an argument for cool tempers and concealed meaning concealed.

[Guest canynracer]

This should have been your last action, before getting in your car and driving on your way. Had it been, you most likely wouldn't be facing the charges you are now. Not going to rip your ass, but I'm pretty sure you now realize it was a very stupid move flipping him the bird or whatever, just to satisfy the male ego, when you could have easily got in your vehicle and been on your merry way. Especially when you've already stated you were outweighed and potentially overpowered by this guy. So in that point, you've really brought this on yourself regardless of how much of an asshat this guy was/is.

That said... this happened back in 2005. A considerable amount of time has passed, so any witnesses and/or the gas station's video footage is probably long gone. Do you know if this guy even has supposed witnesses? I would think that the police would have tried contacting the gas station for review of their tapes, at the very least, had someone truly stuck a handgun in someone's face.

No such video footage, and no witnesses, could very well play in your favor (i.e. it never happened). It sounds like it will come down to your word vs his word, recounting that day's events. Get a good attorney and follow his directions and scripted line of answers to questioning. You may have to admit you used piss-poor judgement by provoking him further... but never once drew the weapon from the front seat of the vehicle, pointed it in his direction, or even exited your vehicle at that point (if these are true statements). If you had done any of that, it would have been caught on the pump's security cameras.

I think you'll be in the clear, once all is said and done. Hopefully so. But I also hope you learned to keep a cool head next time and not try to have the "last word".

+111111111111111111111111111

sorry this is happening man...it will work out...call a LAWYER, DONT try to do this yourself!!!!

[Guest Grout]

Verbal altercations,gun is shown or worn openly,order of protection taken out.Anybody besides me see a pattern developing?.Keep your gun concealed and or your damn mouth shut and you will stay out of trouble.

[Guest Engloid]

WARNING _ I AM NOT A LAWYER!!!!!

There is an old adage - Anyone who represents themselves in a court of law has a fool for a client.

Lawyers love to tell you that one. I'm pretty sure it was a lawyer that first came up with the saying.

In most cases, a lawyer is a good idea. However, the courtroom is a place of rules. If you know the rules, you aren't a fool to represent yourself. It gives you 100% control over the case...and as the person that knows details better than anybody, it can put you into a much better position than if you hired a lawyer.

In other words, as the other person is giving testimony, you will have the ability to change your line of questioning, based on what you know happened. A hired lawyer won't always know those details.

That all said, when facing jail time, you most likely will be best to play it safe and get a lawyer. Remember that you can fire him at any time, so if you find he's not good in court, fire his butt and ask for time to find another lawyer.

[Guest Engloid]

Verbal altercations,gun is shown or worn openly,order of protection taken out.Anybody besides me see a pattern developing?.Keep your gun concealed and or your damn mouth shut and you will stay out of trouble.

Yes, it's all too easy for somebody to say you threatened them with your gun....if they know you have it.

In this case, it's doubtful that the gas station's security tapes will be around for that long. Most places have the looping tapes that hold only the most recent day or something like that. Maybe the cops got a copy of it on that day, but it's not likely. This guy will probably not be able to prove his case

[Guest jth_3s]

They tell you in the saftey class pulling the gun is the last resort and you should only do it if you fear you life is in danger. In my opinion you had no reason to pull the gun and escalating the situation by flipping him off looks really bad on your part. The judge is gonna ask you why you stopped and didnt just drive away. This is what gives gun owners a bad name.

[Guest kwikrnu]

They tell you in the saftey class pulling the gun is the last resort and you should only do it if you fear you life is in danger. In my opinion you had no reason to pull the gun and escalating the situation by flipping him off looks really bad on your part. The judge is gonna ask you why you stopped and didnt just drive away. This is what gives gun owners a bad name.

He didn't touch or pull his gun, it was lying on the passenger seat.

[Fallguy]

He didn't touch or pull his gun, it was lying on the passenger seat.

Yep...

...and if someone is pounding on the glass to a vehicle I'm in he's going to see my gun, at the very least.

[Guest shadow12]

First thing I would advise you to do is this, SHUT UP. Not trying to be an ass, but you only talk about this with your lawyer, you never know who is watching reading, or listening.

As far as the case goes, the officer that took the report, most likely took the guy at his word. He got a warrant through a judge, the DA has not seen the warrant or the case. Now you have been arrested, you go to your first setting, arraignment, this will be the first time that anyone from the DA's office has seen any of it. If you have a good lawyer, you may never even got to court, and the odds on this ahole that started it showing up are slim. As most have advised you, get a good lawyer, and shut your mouth, only say what he tells you to say, and talk to the people he says you can. With all of that said, good luck, I have dealt with too many turds that accuse decent people, so I hope it turns out well for you.

And everyone should remember..........All lawyers are turds, except yours.

[Guest jth_3s]

Im not siding with the other guy Im just sayin he reached for his gun when he should have just kept driving. It takes less time to hit the gas than grab the gun. He brought all of this on himself when he flipped the guy off and stopped to let him come to the window. He said he was reaching for the gun and he obviously did make the guy think he was going for his gun or the guy wouldnt have ran off. On the other hand though I dont think the other guy should have filed a police report after starting the whole deal. But if I was him I would take this post down and not talk about it to anyone but a lawyer.

[Fallguy]

Im not siding with the other guy Im just sayin he reached for his gun when he should have just kept driving. It takes less time to hit the gas than grab the gun. He brought all of this on himself when he flipped the guy off and stopped to let him come to the window. He said he was reaching for the gun and he obviously did make the guy think he was going for his gun or the guy wouldnt have ran off. On the other hand though I dont think the other guy should have filed a police report after starting the whole deal. But if I was him I would take this post down and not talk about it to anyone but a lawyer.

Fair enough.

[Guest shortfri]

Seems you've gotten a lot of good advice, i didn't read every post but i did see the following advice you should follow.

A very good lawyer.

A jury trial. First it has to go in front of a grand jury. They must convience 12 people that you are guilty. Then it has to go in front of a court jury. 12 more people that have to be convienced. You only have to have one person out of 24 that thanks your not, to walk. The bad side to this is it can be taken to a grand jury three times in a year. That means if the first grand jury says your not guilty the second or third could.

Third Take this post down, anything you've said on here can be used in court. It may not seem like much but if one little thing you posted is wrong then a good lawyer can turn it into you being a bold face lier.

And this is advice for everyone, The first one to swear a warrent is a victim. You start a fight, get your butt whipped, but are the first to a warrent writer. then the other guy gets arrested. You get a D.A. he has to hire a lawyer. You win you get whatever, He wins the case gets dismissed, and he gets a lawyers bill. He tries to counter sue it gets thrown out. He tries to get a counter warrent. the comminisher won't write it. Only one warrent per case. So basically the first to whin is the winner no matter what.

My advice if your ever in this type of situation don't drive away. Call the cops. You may look like a wuss. but at least there will be a report that came before the warrent. Which in this case may have stopped a warrent Comminisher from writing a warrent.

The odds of someone seeing this that is connected to the other guy or his lawer is slim but still to big a chance in my books.

Edited May 13, 2008 by shortfri
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[Guest kwikrnu]

He tries to counter sue it gets thrown out.

Why is that?

[Guest killemducks]

Well as i was backing away from the pump i blew him a kiss or fliped him a bird or somthing

I hope to heck that you have grown up since then man. For gosh sakes you have a wife, kid, AND HCP. You better grow up!