Tennessee Militia

[BillP]

Tennessee Code Title 58, Chapter 1, Part l-104(d) states:

"(d) The militia shall consist of all able-bodied male citizens who are residents of this state and between eighteen (18) and forty-five (45) years of age and who are not members of the army or navy as hereinabove defined, and who may not otherwise be exempted by the laws of this state or the United States. "

How could any future Supreme Court interpret the Second Amendment in any way that could deny Tennesseans age 18 to 45 the right to bear arms?

If this has been covered here before, I failed to find it with a search.

Bill

[RobertNashville]

So, since I'm over 45 I no longer have the right to keep and bear arms? We do have a "formal" state militia that answers to the Military Department of Tennessee; the Tennessee State Guard which operates, in general, under U.S. Army guidelines, ranks, etc.

Unfortunately, there is no telling what a future supreme court could decide as it all depends on who is appointed to the court - we've got justices now who think the U.S. Constitution is out of date and out of touch and that the court should make decisions based on "world" laws and court decisions.

[Oh Shoot]

... How could any future Supreme Court interpret the Second Amendment in any way that could deny Tennesseans age 18 to 45 the right to bear arms?

The federal government isn't preventing Tennesseans from bearing arms. Tennessee is.

- OS

[tnhawk]

Tenn Code Ann. 58-1-402. (2012) Membership of state guard --Distinct from national guard-- states, "The state guard shall be composed of such individuals between sixteen (16) and seventy-five (75) years of age as shall volunteer for service therein. The state guard shall be in addition to and distinct from the national guard organized under existing law."

There is no reference to the right to bear arms in this part of TN code.

Edited May 31, 2012 by tnhawk

[tnhawk]

double post - delete

Edited May 31, 2012 by tnhawk

[zapfbroad]

Does anyone belong to the formal state militia or a non state sponsored one in TN? Are there any sizable ones to join?

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[tnhawk]

TN State Guard consists of approximately 500 people according to their website, which provides information on their history and mission in the state.

[Guest bkelm18]

Just to note, the TN State Guard forbids its members from carrying weapons while in uniform.

[tnhawk]

Just to note, the TN State Guard forbids its members from carrying weapons while in uniform.

Some members of the TNSG compete in rifle and pistol competions.

[Guest bkelm18]

Some members of the TNSG compete in rifle and pistol competions.

They are not an armed militia. Competitions are something else.

Edited May 31, 2012 by bkelm18

[tnhawk]

An "armed militia" is not addressed in TN Code Annotated 58-1-401. Nor is the 2nd Annemdment.

[Guest bkelm18]

An "armed militia" is not addressed in TN Code Annotated 58-1-401. Nor is the 2nd Annemdment.

Ooook? TNSG is for disaster relief and such. They do not carry weapons nor are they allowed to. I can't find it on their site but they used to say very clearly on it that weapons are not allowed.

Edited May 31, 2012 by bkelm18

[Lumber_Jack]

Ooook? TNSG is for disaster relief and such. They do not carry weapons nor are they allowed to. I can't find it on their site but they used to say very clearly on it that weapons are not allowed.

So truth be told, they are more 'Red Cross' than 'militia'

[Guest bkelm18]

So truth be told, they are more 'Red Cross' than 'militia'

That's pretty much what I've read and heard. I have no direct experience with them, but it seems they are not a "militia" in a traditional sense.

[tnhawk]

As stated on the TN Military Department web site, the mission of the TNSG is to support the state mission of the TN National Guard and at the direction of the Adjutant General, assist civil authorities for the well being of the citizens of TN. Additional information can be found at this site.

Edited May 31, 2012 by tnhawk

[Guest bkelm18]

As stated on the TN Military Department web site, the mission of the TNSG is to support the state mission of the TN National Guard and at the direction of the Adjutant General, assist civil authorities for the well being of the citizens of TN. Additional information can be found at this site.

Suit yourself buddy. I've got not dog in the fight. I'm just saying what I've seen and read over the years on their website and from their members. They don't issue weapons and you buy your own uniforms. If you wanna join, more power to ya.

[JayC]

So, since I'm over 45 I no longer have the right to keep and bear arms? We do have a "formal" state militia that answers to the Military Department of Tennessee; the Tennessee State Guard which operates, in general, under U.S. Army guidelines, ranks, etc.

Unfortunately, there is no telling what a future supreme court could decide as it all depends on who is appointed to the court - we've got justices now who think the U.S. Constitution is out of date and out of touch and that the court should make decisions based on "world" laws and court decisions.

The TN State Guard is NOT a militia. They are a good group of guys, who are trying to help their community out, but are largely hampered by the state in being of much use today.

A militia by law has it's line officers elected by the members of the unit. Only staff officers are appointed by the Governor. This is a very critical difference from all state guard units I'm aware of in this country today, and laws regarding traditional militias approved under state law.

Why is that such a critical difference? Because it makes the officers directly answerable to the men they are leading. It drastically changes the dynamic of units when they choose who will lead them, and then those leaders select the NCOs from within the unit. This is how militias were ran from the revolution all the way up to the start of the civil war.

[JayC]

As stated on the TN Military Department web site, the mission of the TNSG is to support the state mission of the TN National Guard and at the direction of the Adjutant General, assist civil authorities for the well being of the citizens of TN. Additional information can be found at this site.

I can tell you from experience, that isn't what the state guard is doing today. The guard has 21 M16A1 rifles, and a handful of pistols in it's only armory. They are a batch of rifles given to the state prison system when they got custody of James Earl Ray (killer of Dr King). When the state prison system got better rifles they were transferred to the TN state guard. They have a VERY small ammo budget each year, I'm not even sure it's enough to qualify all their members on a regular basis.

Most of their field equipment is older than you have to be to get a HCP in this state... all early 80's era gear, including protective gear... They aren't training their members for combat (even though most of the units are infantry units on paper).

Honestly, the state is largely the hold up here, unwilling to provide the funding needed, and unwilling to have them train and prepare for their stated goal.

A couple of years back, I was recruited pretty hard by one of their units, including a long sit down with the commanding General, and a few of his aides. Very good group of guys, but they are severely hampered by the state.

As for public NGO militias, there are a few, some are good guys, others are nut jobs, it's pretty easy to Google and find them, and figure out which are which... And there are private groups who are doing preparedness and tactical training throughout the state, again a mixed bag. You just have to listen and ask around in the right places and you'll find those groups. Honestly most of the private groups seem to be better trained and organized IMHO.

Edited May 31, 2012 by JayC

[tnhawk]

... They aren't training their members for combat (even though most of the units are infantry units on paper)...Honestly, the state is largely the hold up here, unwilling to provide the funding needed, and unwilling to have them train and prepare for their stated goal....

As the TNSG website states, the goals of the TNSG are support of the STATE mission of the National Guard. The role of the National Guard in its state role is NOT combat. Most of my time in the TNSG has been spent acquiring Military Emergency Management Specialist skills, first aid and Amateur Radio skills.

[Just2Honor]

TN State Guard is a member of TNVOAD (TN group within the National Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster) This a NGO umbrella-type organization fostering communication and coordination between groups that respond to disasters. Sometimes attended the meetings and participated in responses but that may have been because the Military Dept held them back as they also control TN Emergency Management.

[JayC]

As the TNSG website states, the goals of the TNSG are support of the STATE mission of the National Guard. The role of the National Guard in its state role is NOT combat. Most of my time in the TNSG has been spent acquiring Military Emergency Management Specialist skills, first aid and Amateur Radio skills.

I'm not talking bad about the State Guard, just trying to set the record straight that it largely is under funded, and it's mission is not well defined, and is poorly implemented... It's an organization that the state is trying to find a purpose for because they don't want to support a trained state defense force.

Re-read the the state law that authorizes the State Guard, it calls for the Governor to organize a state defense force, to be kept within the borders of TN when the national guard is called up for federal service. The State Guard was originally organized into infantry and military police battalions (ie light infantry), and back in the 80's and 90's did combat training. That mission has fallen out of political favor, and as such the State Guard has been left to find a more politically correct "mission".

TNSG is trying to do a lot of different things, that other volunteer organizations already do, and in virtually all cases, better than the TNSG currently capable of doing. Mostly because of funding issues... but there are other structural problems.

I'll give you a case in point, during Katrina, the Red Cross and TEMA were setting up a shelter for people being evacuated from New Orleans in middle TN. TNSG showed up looking for something to do, first they had no communications capabilities, second, they were requested to help provide 'security' to a sensitive area of the shelter (ie checking ID badges of people coming in and out of a room)... The request had to be made in writing and it took 3 days for the TNSG to deny the request (a job that had by then assigned to 60 and 70 year old ham radio operators, some of which were riding around in electric wheelchairs). This was an MP battalion, one would think that one of the duties of the National Guard (and by extension TNSG) during a natural disaster, would be to provide security to an evacuation center and that an MP battalion would be the right folks for the job

Now, I am aware the TNSG has made great strides over the last few years, they have increased their communications abilities, most units now have bubble pack radios, and a few ham radio operators, and but they still suffer from the not as good as the other guys problem... CERT teams, more volunteers, less red tape, very similar training to the TNSG. ARES/MARS, again similar training, a lot larger, much less red tape... Red Cross/Salvation Army/etc huge organizations with out the limitations of the TNSG.

We already have a great number of NGO volunteer groups who are doing disaster response and recovery work, they today do it much better than the TNSG, they're much better funded than the TNSG, and have many more volunteers than the TNSG.

Most importantly, the TNSG which by law is supposed to be a DEFENSE FORCE, is unable to complete that mission, not because of the men and woman who are members of the TNSG, but because the TN state government doesn't want them to....

Either way, for somebody who is looking to join a state ran 'militia'... I think we both can agree you're not going to spend a lot of time shooting rifles, or learning military tactics,etc... You're going to be doing Red Cross/CERT/ARES style volunteer work in 1980's woodland BDU's and having to salute people in the process

[Guest BungieCord]

Tennessee Code Title 58, Chapter 1, Part l-104(d) states:

"(d) The militia shall consist of all able-bodied male citizens who are residents of this state and between eighteen (18) and forty-five (45) years of age and who are not members of the army or navy as hereinabove defined, and who may not otherwise be exempted by the laws of this state or the United States. "

How could any future Supreme Court interpret the Second Amendment in any way that could deny Tennesseans age 18 to 45 the right to bear arms?

If this has been covered here before, I failed to find it with a search.

Bill

Which part of the Heller decision did you not understand? Justice Scalia wrote unequivocally in his majority opinion that 2A addresses an INDIVIDUAL right, period, full stop. That is now precedent and the meaning of the word "milita" is entirely moot. SCOTUS does not give a hoot in a holler who Tennessee considers eligible to be in their little "militia." 2A is and will remain uniformly an indivual right unless and until SCOTUS reverses itself or the US Constitution is further amended.

[Oh Shoot]

Which part of the Heller decision did you not understand? Justice Scalia wrote unequivocally in his majority opinion that 2A addresses an INDIVIDUAL right, period, full stop. That is now precedent and the meaning of the word "milita" is entirely moot. SCOTUS does not give a hoot in a holler who Tennessee considers eligible to be in their little "militia." 2A is and will remain uniformly an indivual right unless and until SCOTUS reverses itself or the US Constitution is further amended.

However, neither Heller or McDonald had anything at all to do with bearing arms, only possession in the home.

TN, of course, also does not grant the bearing of arms as a right.

- OS

Edited June 1, 2012 by OhShoot

[JayC]

It's coming Palmer v D.C.

http://ia600408.us.archive.org/2/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.137887/gov.uscourts.dcd.137887.1.0.pdf

Honestly I thought it would make it before SCOTUS this year, hopefully next year.

However, neither Heller or McDonald had anything at all to do with bearing arms, only possession in the home.

TN, of course, also does not grant the bearing of arms as a right.

- OS

[Guest MilitiaMan]

Ok, so is there an above board (no scams or whacko bs), armed, state militia that on can join? If you know of one and don't want to say aloud, please PM me.