Army bans unauthorized Magazines

[QuietDan]

Some Command Sergeant Major(s) without enough to do.

"I went to a War, and a Garrison broke out."

[TMF]

Some Command Sergeant Major(s) without enough to do.

"I went to a War, and a Garrison broke out."

And there is the answer.

[mikegideon]

Yep. The PMag is simply a better mousetrap. This dumbass decision is based on somebody's personal agenda.

[Guest Victor9er]

From the Magpul website:

The next-generation PMAG 30 M3 is a 30-round 5.56x45 NATO (.223 Remington) polymer magazine for AR15/M16 compatible weapons. Along with expanded feature set and compatibility, the M3 incorporates new material technology and manufacturing processes for enhanced strength, durability, and reliability to exceed rigorous military performance specifications.

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG557/2

[Dolomite_supafly]

Magpul saying they meet or exceed military specifications doesn't mean they have been evaluated in military channels. And it is that evaluation that is required in order to become acceptable for issue.

If we are that adamant that our soldiers have these mags we should be calling, writing or emailing our represtitives demanding the mags be evaluated.

I want what what the soldier wants but ultimately I want what will keep the soldiers alive. And they are not necessarily the same.

The mil spec standard are there for a reason as is the dress standards. And when soldiers are allowed to make personal choices regarding either our military quits being as efficient. And the military needs all the efficiency it can muster.

Dolomite

[scoutfsu]

TACOM is repeating a 5 year old ALARACT. They are bureaucrats first and foremost; a hindrance to the war fighter. A good portion of that command needs to be culled. This info is all over most forums with MagPul putting out some good information regarding the DEET and cold weather tests. Remember, TACOM is the same people telling you spray paint and stocks will cause a weapon to deadline. They are the same people who only authorize CLP for weapon maintenance. They are a joke.

The PMag is an awesome magazine. A good GI mag is an awesome magazine. Don't fall in love with your mags. When they start to cause malfunctions, trash them. Magazines are disposable items. They will all break eventually. At least with PMags, I don't have to guess...... I know there is a feed lip gauge. I've never seen one in any Army unit I've been in. Has anyone?

Most commands will do what they usually do when TACOM pushes stupid #### - ignore them. PMags have been issued by units for years now.

More for the Marines.

Not really. Their people are throwing fits about them due to the adoption of the M27 IAR. Some are attempting work arounds with the EMag and I'm curious how the new M3 mag works out for them.

[Smith]

I am not saying MagPul mags are bad just saying that milspec aren't bad either. Seems everyone loves to hate them yet the milspec magazines have worked well for over 50 years.

Dolomite

Except that the GI mags were always considered the flaw or weak point of the M16/M4/AR. I wonder if the military will still insist on using the old tilting followers that Magpul improved considerably? They aren't mil-spec?

[scoutfsu]

Except that the GI mags were always considered the flaw or weak point of the M16/M4/AR. I wonder if the military will still insist on using the old tilting followers that Magpul improved considerably? They aren't mil-spec?

They have a new tan follower.....that closely resembles Magpul's. It staggers the rounds opposite a typical follower.

[BimmerFreak]

Some Command Sergeant Major(s) without enough to do.

"I went to a War, and a Garrison broke out."

Command Sergeants Major

Regarding PMags;

The issue is not with the Magpul PMag.

The issue is a clause that allows for "brand name or equal"

Companies like Tapco are exploiting the "brand name or equal" clause in some magazine contracts to undercut the PMAG on price and sneak their product in. So the unit places an order for PMAGs, the contracting officer posts a solicitation with the "brand name or equal" clause, Tapco wins the contract, and the unit gets issued an inferior product that they did not want. ####ty situation to be in, and I can't believe the contracting officers are getting away with it.

Edited May 31, 2012 by BimmerFreak

[mikegideon]

Command Sergeants Major

Regarding PMags;

The issue is not with the Magpul PMag.

The issue is a clause that allows for "brand name or equal"

Companies like Tapco are exploiting the "brand name or equal" clause in some magazine contracts to undercut the PMAG on price and sneak their product in. So the unit places an order for PMAGs, the contracting officer posts a solicitation with the "brand name or equal" clause, Tapco wins the contract, and the unit gets issued an inferior product that they did not want. ####ty situation to be in, and I can't believe the contracting officers are getting away with it.

That makes lots more sense. There's some real junk out there.

[Caster]

That makes lots more sense. There's some real junk out there.

Yeah and a LOT of it starts with the letter Tapco.

[mikegideon]

Yeah and a LOT of it starts with the letter Tapco.

Yep. I was trying to apply some of 6.8 AR's politeness

[gjohnsoniv]

Yeah and a LOT of it starts with the letter Tapco.

Tapcrap.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yep. I was trying to apply some of 6.8 AR's politeness

You did well

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Actually I have a couple pmags, just haven't used them, yet. Are they really that much better than the

aluminum mags? I know there is a huge difference in the quality of the selection of 6.8 mags. The good ones

will bankrupt you. The cheap ones will drive you crazy.

Got to agree with you about Tapco being junk.

[mikegideon]

You did well

Thought I should try, since I called Bloomberg a little prick earlier today

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, you did well there, also.

[Guest Victor9er]

Magpul saying they meet or exceed military specifications doesn't mean they have been evaluated in military channels. And it is that evaluation that is required in order to become acceptable for issue.

If we are that adamant that our soldiers have these mags we should be calling, writing or emailing our represtitives demanding the mags be evaluated.

I want what what the soldier wants but ultimately I want what will keep the soldiers alive. And they are not necessarily the same.

The mil spec standard are there for a reason as is the dress standards. And when soldiers are allowed to make personal choices regarding either our military quits being as efficient. And the military needs all the efficiency it can muster.

Dolomite

I understand what you're saying, but from what I've read (and I'll freely admit I'm no soldier myself and this is only what I've read so far) the majority of soldiers are in favor of the PMags because they work. When it comes to equipment, I'm sure the most important factor for any soldier is that it works. It seems like there were issues with the older GI mags to begin with, one of the reasons so many have moved over to the PMags... they wouldn't be using them if they didn't work, well let me rephrase... they wouldn't be buying so many of them on their own if they didn't work.

You'd be a fool to think the military doesn't make decisions based on cost... they have a budget to work with like anyone and if they can get 10,000 units from Brand-X or 15,000 units from Brand-Y for the same price, they're going to choose Brand-Y as long as it meets with their specs. But I think we all know there's a difference between "meeting specs" and real-world performance.

I just don't see why PMags would continue to be so popular among current and former military if they didn't work. Eotech is a popular brand and yet I hear military people saying that they crap out all the time.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Victor9er

[QuietDan]

Command Sergeants Major

I stand corrected.

[TMF]

I stand corrected.

Bah, only officers and folks with the Ft Bliss lobotomy pluralize it that way.

[BimmerFreak]

Bah, only officers and folks with the Ft Bliss lobotomy pluralize it that way.

Oh, I don't know...I think that anyone that takes pride in the NCO Corps would want to correctly refer to our most senior rank in the correct manner.

[TMF]

Oh, I don't know...I think that anyone that takes pride in the NCO Corps would want to correctly refer to our most senior rank in the correct manner.

Oh come on, do I gotta put a smiley face next to everything for folks to take a joke? Besides, I hardly think that improper pluralization is contemptuous of the entire NCO corps. When I was an NCO I was more concerned with being technically and tactically proficient in respect to things that mattered.

[BimmerFreak]

Oh come on, do I gotta put a smiley face next to everything for folks to take a joke? Besides, I hardly think that improper pluralization is contemptuous of the entire NCO corps. When I was an NCO I was more concerned with being technically and tactically proficient in respect to things that mattered.

Improper plualization certainly ranks lower on the "what's important with rounds inbound" scale, but I can't tell you how crazy it makes when when I hear a Senior NCO say Sergeant MajorS.

My buddy (we were First Sergeants together) is now a Brigade CSM.

I catch him saying Sergeant Majors from time to time and I swear I would slap the f*ck out of him if I could get away with it!

I mean, REALLY?! How hard is it to get right?

And YES! You do have to use a so we know you are joking.

It's in the internet rulebook

Edited May 31, 2012 by BimmerFreak

[QuietDan]

Oh, I don't know...I think that anyone that takes pride in the NCO Corps would want to correctly refer to our most senior rank in the correct manner.

Well, it IS the type of thing that Command Sergeants Major discuss . . . .

. . . and the worse part about arguing about their observations is that you can't. They're right. They are almost the definition of right.

That makes them, often, a creature to be avoided in garrison.

Pardon me for the observation. I speak Hoo-aah with an Air Force accent.

Back to my Barca Lounger and my satellite TV channel-changer.

I still like PMAGs. I imagine that very few soldiers getting shot at are going to ditch them.

(ooops!!)

It's BarcaLounger.

Edited May 31, 2012 by QuietDan

[TMF]

My buddy (we were First Sergeants together) is now a Brigade CSM.

I catch him saying Sergeant Majors from time to time and I swear I would slap the f*ck out of him if I could get away with it!

I mean, REALLY?! How hard is it to get right?

Ha, I had a buddy say it once in front of our (OCD) Cpt and was corrected, so from then on I made it a point to mispronounce it in his presence just to f*** with him. Then I found myself saying "Sgt Majors" by accident. Kinda for the same reason I pronounce "jalapeño" as "ja-lap-eno".