Dogs: family or property?

[saintsfanbrian]

Let me re-phrase my statement. If either of My GSD dogs harmed ANYONE that was not threatening me or my family (basically if they were unprovoked) they would not see the end of that day.

[Marswolf]

I don't know if we have a troll or a fool, but this has got to be one of the most stupid threads we have ever had.

[saintsfanbrian]

I don't have anything against Pit-Pulls APBT or what ever you want to call them, but a dog acting aggressively towards me, my family or my pets when I am not in their territory is going to be dispatched. If you then take me as a threat for protecting myself/family/farm then you are an idiot. I would expect any other responsible pet owner to do the same thing even to my animals if they were attacking. Mine are more likely to lick you to death than bite, but if they did, I would hold no animosity towards you for protecting yourself.

[TGO David]

Two points.

1a. I am no fool.

1b. You have won this match. Remember the earlier suppositioning about a high powered rifle, later? That'd be round two. Ding ding.

These two statements are contradictory.

I hope for your sake it is just Internet bravado. Otherwise you are stating that you would commit an act of premeditated murder, in which case I hope that your family is OK with a closed casket funeral because the State will eventually put enough electricity through you to light up a typical Memphis neighborhood.

I remember talking big like that at one time. But I think I was 19 and had no idea how the world really worked. You're too old for that and you're carrying a firearm for your own protection. It's time to put aside bravado and bull****, and start thinking sensibly before you do something dumb that lands you in jail.

[TGO David]

I don't know if we have a troll or a fool, but this has got to be one of the most stupid threads we have ever had.

I'd use a Glock to shoot that dog too!!!

[BenS]

Who are you? Do you pay my farm & ranch insurance? If not, then keep your advice about what stock I keep to yourself, thank you very much.

Any dog is a potential legal liability. How much of a liability depends on the breed. In my opinion, and that is my opinion only, not a commandment for you to run and do immediately - a pit is a huge liability. You have no idea what the dog went through before you got it. Who knows what could set it off and bite another dog or person.

And like someone else said, we were originally talking about a scenario where someone was out walking their dog and was approached by an angry dog. Then you throw in the straw man argument of someone possibly killing your dog since it is a pit and comes with all of the stereotypes of such.

Its your dog, its your farm and ranch whatever, but I still say its a liability to YOU.

I do have a chip on my shoulder about APBTs, though I never did until I had this dog. I never intended to own a APBT, I grew up labs and german shepherds. I got this dog as a rescue. But this dog wants to mind me more than any lab or GSD pup I ever had. That is something you can't teach a dog. It has it or it don't. He is everything that APBT trainers say he should be, a "dog-handler's dog". They are the only breed of dog bred specifically not to bite people. This is what dog handlers with experience with APBTs will tell you, if you ask them.

Wonderful. I am sure the dog is an angel.

But you will not. You will watch Nancy Grace and pee your drawers. That is why I have this chip on my shoulder. My point is that its not just MY chip.

Thanks for slinging the insults, it makes your argument more valid.

This guys neighbor may well have one on his shoulder too. You wanna be the one that knocks it off?

This doesn't even deserve a response.

Here's the deal. I came in this thread because my dog was attacked back in the summer by my neighbors dog, some sort of german shepherd. My dog is a small 15 lb mutt that is afraid of her own shadow. I was standing outside with her while she did her bid'ness - she was not on a leash - and my neighbors dog came flying out of nowhere and clamped down on my dog's rear leg and continued to bite her for about 30 seconds. She got free and then was able to run away, which happened to be towards me. This made the other dog come towards me as well.

I was unarmed at the time, so all i could do is grab a chair on my front porch and throw it at the other dog and yell at it. Fortunately, this was enough for the dog to run away.

I got my gun (in its holster and concealed it in my pocket), grabbed a garden rake and headed for my neighbors. The neighbor and I ended up having words - he told me I was trespassing, i told him the police were on their way, and i left his property.

I filed a police report to make it official. The neighbor and I talked later after we both cooled down and he conceded to get rid of the dog.

My point with all that is the dog had never shown aggressive behavior until then. I hope you don't have to find that out about your dog like my neighbor did.

Hopefully you will spew more insults at me.

[BenS]

IPerhaps it is just bravado, but I would like to think that I am the type who, if you shot my dog without MY percieving him as a threat to you, would draw his own weapon and either die with his dog, or defend his family, extending to his dog.

So if your dog is attacking me, I'm supposed to run up and ring your doorbell and say HAY HELLBELLEY UR DOG IS BTING ME KAN I SHOOT IT KTHX?

[TGO David]

Hopefully you will spew more insults at me.

If he doesn't, I can.

[Fallguy]

Hellbilly...you are right about the law (threat of harm or death to human, only death to animal)...I did re-read it. My bad on that.

I don't think the act of someone shooting your dog would "legally" justify you in using deadly force against them, unless they where to then point the gun at you. I have no problem with dogs, love my dog...but the law does view animals as property and as has been discussed in other threads, in TN you can not use deadly force to protect property.

You say you would shoot the person if you didn't percieve your dog a threat to them when they shot it, however what you percieve is not necessarly relevant to the situation. If the person who shot your dog "reasonably" belived that they were in inimminent danger of death or serious bodily injury they would be justified regardless of what you percieved.

I agree you have had a hell of a first day on the board...what are the odds a thread that was just a hot topic for you would be posted....lol

[molonlabetn]

Emotional arguments aside... if your dog bit, or attempted to bite someone, without provocation, the dog should be put down. Whether by the victim or animal control. You have no say in whether or not the victim felt threatened, and certainly have no justification for assaulting or murdering someone in retaliation for defending themself from the animal.

To put it in further perspective, what if your dog attacked a police officer? Would you shoot a police officer who put your dog down for attacking him? It's the same protocol. A police officer would have no more justification in defending themselves from an unprovoked attack (or perception of an imminent threat) than you or I.

Would you simply allow yourself to be mauled by an unknown dog? If not, would you believe the owner of the dog to be justified in supporting the animal's attack, by attacking you himself?

[Mike.357]

You have won this match. Remember the earlier suppositioning about a high powered rifle, later? That'd be round two. Ding ding.

Comments like this are a real reason why you should not own guns. And and even bigger reason why I am glad I don't know you and you are not my neighbor. People like you give honest gun owners a black eye.

[TGO David]

I agree you have had a hell of a first day on the board...what are the odds a thread that was just a hot topic for you would be posted....lol

It's baptism by fire around here lately.

[BenS]

If he doesn't, I can.

Just try me bud! Then I'll shoot yer dog!

[Marswolf]

Comments like this are a real reason why you should not own guns. And and even bigger reason why I am glad I don't know you and you are not my neighbor. People like you give honest gun owners a black eye.

Not a problem for me. My neighbors know to not **** with me.

[Mike.357]

Mars I doubt you are a problem to be neighbors with. Someone such as yourself has proven to be an upstanding citizen and most all of us would like to have you or one like as a neighbor.

[Marswolf]

Actually, I am a very nice guy, except when I'm not.

[dralarms]

Guy's

You want to see something funny as heck, go to the link he posted and click on picture 16, that is the dog he is talking about, Sheeezz if that came at me I'd die laughing, forget shooting at it, a good swift # 13 across his head would correct his additude.

Now that is not the dog I am used to being called a "pit bull" the one's I know as a pit bull are mostly vicious and have dispatched a few of them before my neighbor either figured out how to keep them off my property or got rid of them, I don't know which.

Oh, Hellbilly, Welcome to TGO, hope your first day won't be your last.

[dariks]

Two points.

1. I am no fool. You think I have such poor reason as not to know that your gun is already out? Perhaps ther is no cover. In such a case, I would have to egress. You have won this match. Remember the earlier suppositioning about a high powered rifle, later? That'd be round two. Ding ding.

Are you seriously saying that you would commit premeditated murder because someone shot your dog?

[dariks]

I am not a dog handler, vet or even psychic. With that said if a dog comes running up to me while I am in my yard, and that dog is barking, growling, charging, etc.... then that dog will more than likely get shot.

[Guest Halfpint]

. . . I just realized, Hellbilly still hasn't answered my question . . .

[Marswolf]

I think there are something like 8 breeds that are sometimes included in the "pit bull" category. We see all sorts of whining about how they are good dogs unless they are trained to be mean. It's mindless nonsense. The facts are that they are extremely aggressive by nature. It's in their DNA. And they are responsible for a totally out of balance number of human deaths, not to mention the deaths of countless other dogs. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers make up the majority of human deaths from dogs.

People who keep pit bulls are either delusional, dumb, or falsely macho.

And that comes from someone who is a big dog lover.

Anyone who would allow their pit bull out of a very secure enclosure is a menace to their community and should be psychiatricly evaluated.

There are very sensible and good reasons so many communities have banned the possession of these dogs.

[Im Neero]

No one has suggested biting the dog back yet?? That's my plan, at least

[Guest canynracer]

it is perfectly legal to shoot an ATTACKING dog..this happened to my buddy...pitbull came after him, after biting another man, the man wrestled the dog till he pinned it, and was calling for help... while running across the street to help restrain the dog, the dog got loose, then ran after my buddy DEFINATLEY on the attack...my buddy shot twice, one hit the rear hip...on in the face...dog ran away...yes, ran away after being shot twice with a .40cal...it hid under a bush, buddy called cops, said I shot a pitbull...cops showed up, 3 cops, all grabbed their shotguns...checked my buddies carry permit, then they waited an hour for animal control..they thought the dog would bleed out, but when that noose went around its neck, it fought like crazy...it was in the back of the truck for about 10 min...they were standing in a pool of blood...dog died...end story.

yes, you can shoot an attacking dog legally, unless of course, you walk into its yard and on the dogs private property.

[Marswolf]

I'll consider the rest of anything you ever say to be likely drivel, because the above post was nothing but unverifiable crap.

Totally verifiable. Just Google it. You are mindless, stupid and in denial.

[Guest canynracer]

I have a Rotty...I love him to death...if he ever showed that he was going to attack, you wouldnt have to worry about shooting him, he'd be dead.

I understand that I must be in control of my dog...I am in control, but others walking do not know that, they see a 170lbs Rottweiller barking showing his teeth, and advancing, they are going to panic. It is MY responsibility to show them that he is only protecting his property...how do I do that? he is on a chain, that WILL stop him if my commands do not.

Certain "triggers" can cause a dog to not comply with commands, scents, actions, the dogs adrenaline...you see that in the BEST trained animals in LE, and in Military continue to bite (attack) well after the command to stop was given.

Like I said, I LOVE my rotty like my children, but he would die my MY bullet if he was threatening bolidy injury on ANYONE that was not provoking the attack. Now, the other side...you advance on my property unannounced, or in a threatening manner my dog WILL protect, and for that, you get the bullet, the bite, and he gets a Snausages