reloading. 308. thoughts and questions from a newbie.

[vujade]

Hello.

This is documenting my reloading first reloading attempt. I'll add some lessons learned and some additional questions for you seasoned folks. I'm also soliciting some advice on next steps to improve.

This is the rifle: Savage (pre-accutrigger) 10FP in 308. 20 inch barrel. B&C medalist stock. Nikon buckmasters scope. I'm just shooting up to 100 yards only for now. Maybe 200 soon. I don't see myself shooting longer than that since I don't have access anyway.

I'm using a dillon 550b but i'm using it as a 'single stage' since I don't have the powder funnel for 308 and I want to go as slow as possible. I used Lyman's edition, a booklet from Hogdon and their website to read/learn and check loads are below max. This is my work space:

I'm using Federal cases. Winchester primers. Varget powder. Sierra Match Kings in 168 grains.

(Question - what are these?) the upper left is the thing to clean the primer residue but I'm not sure of the others.

This is currently my reloading process open for your suggestions:

1. clean the brass in media and I read somewhere to use a little bit of nu finish car wax and strips of cloth. Let it run for 2 hours.

2. Spray the brass lube. (lesson for me - let it dry and do it in an open room/turn on a fan)

3. use station 1 to re-size and de-prime. (i learned to use enough lube later on; at first, I thought I had to fight it).

4. remove the case and use the tool to clean the primer residue.

5. insert a primer and then back in station 1 with the case. I make sure to seat the primer all the way. It's basically flush or slightly above (barely can tell)

6. put the case in a tray and weight out the powder and use the funnel spill it into the case. (lesson for me is to make sure all the powder gets in there, for maybe 5 of the rounds, i found 3 or 4 grains stuck and thus made a few cases short powder). I used an old school weighing scale in grains after i zeroed it. I started with 42.0 grains of varget and then 42.5, 43, and then 44. I made a few others using inferior brass (PPU and sierra game kings)

7. put the case into station 3 and a bullet and seat it. (I wonder if you ran it through more than once...just to make sure it's good and tight and uniform. Aside from seating the bullet, this 'closes down the neck a bit right? I know i can load all the powder at the same time but I figure this is the safest since I have no risk of double charging. I load it with a pullet as soon as I put powder.

8. clean the bullet and set aside. I made 6 rounds for each 'weight' so I can shoot at 2 groups per weight I was testing. I'd weighed the complete round and then the over all length. I found that there was still some differences. I then tried to group each group of 3 into similar weight at least. The difference in length seemed to be due to the bullets. I measured the SMK from the box and they were not all perfect.. a few .001 or so inches off.

....at the range:

I finally went to the range just yesterday. I had just placed a known good set of rings and re-sighted the gun with factory ammo. (old rings were a failure so I put some known good ones even if they are a little high)

I would clean the barrel, wait about 2 minutes or during a clear and then proceed to shoot 2 groups for each 'weight group'. (see data). Main data is for teh 168 SMK but I shoot some of the SGK and also a group of FGMM (i had 3 rounds left); historical average with Hornady TAP or FGMM is .4 to .75 inches at 100 yards.

I ran about 3-4 patches with gun oil to clean. It seems dirtier than Hornady TAP or FGMM.

I maybe should have waiting longer for the barrel to cool.

I shot off sandbags. At first, I was using sandbags on top of a plastic rest and it may have not been the most stable.

When loading the rounds, some rounds were 'tighter' than others when chambering a round. It's all defnitely tighter than the factory rounds. Is it because I may be using different hand pressures when depriming/resizing? Is it advisable to run it down the resizer twice or more?

These are some groups:

(best group) with 43 grains of Varget

(most groups look like this (see data)) I'm glad to see all of them under an inch though! at the least, I can replicate factory match ammo.

Questions - is this an adequate test? I need to start to refine the loads around 42 and 43 (those seem to group the best with the smallest deviation in group?

Next step, I plan to go in .2 grain increments.

I like the less than full loads. Less recoil and I'm able to be a little bit more accurate. I don't mind saving my barrel and powder as well. (shooting short distances anyway (under 200 yards)). I'm thinking of going as low as 40 and working up. thoughts?

Can someone explain why some rounds are tighter when i load them?

I have not messed around with different lengths of seating the bullet. is that a good next step and any thoughts on that? I pretty much just took a factory round and tried to replicate it. Overall length of each round is 2.800. (It may be 2.798 for some of them, like I said, I think that are slight variances in the bullets.)

...back to the bench.

I just cleaned out a new set of federal brass. This time I sprayed too much lube and so I washed them and I realized that got rid of more crud/dust/etc. and I am able to clean out the primer holes better. I used some q tips to clean out the inside and neck and hopefully that will help in accuracy? I didn't realize how dirty they are inside.

Any other advise? What am I trying to accomplish? Stay safe and keep improving what I have.

I'll add that this combines my favorites things. Saving money (or at least thinking I'm saving money since I reckon I'll just be shooting more). Shooting. Math/spreadsheets. I Love it!

[Guest HCRoadie]

The difference between 42 and 43 grains of powder is AS IMPORTANT as bullet seating depth. 0.002 does not sound like much but it could be the difference between the bullet touching the rifling or not. That CAN effect how easily a round chambers.

As for the picture of parts you posted: upper left=small/large primmer pocket cleaner/uniformer, upper right=inside chamfer tool (creates small bevel on the inside of the case neck), bottom right=LOOKS LIKE/Could BE outside chamfer tool (creates slight bevel on the outside of case neck), bottom left=shell holder (holds case/shell to use chamfer tools). I reload for my rifle as well and the best advise I can give is to get EVERYTHING AS CONSISTENT AS POSSIBLE FIRST,(case length, primmer pocket uniformness, powder weight/amount, bullet seating depth,ect...) then decide on one variable to adjust while maintaining eveything else. Which aspect to start working on first I am not an expert on, but I first fine tuned my charge amount and have since been working on bullet seating depth. Keep asking good questions and reading up on this and other forums, as well as the main reloading manuals. "The ABC's of Reloading" is killer. Lee's reloading manual is full of great info about the whole process in addition to load data. I am a little hesitant to give too much advice over a forum setting because too much can be misinterpreted. Live long and tight groups.

[Guest HCRoadie]

Also, those are some great groups you have shot already. SO it can only get better......after it gets a little worse

Edited May 30, 2012 by HCRoadie

[Jonnin]

you may need to eventually trim the cases (?). The rest of your procedure looks great and the results also look great.

[vujade]

question - what is the benefit of putting a bevel on the case?

thanks for all the info. I assume just keep firing the brass until it's too long and then trim it?

Another question - in your experiences, how many reloads can you get out of a 308 case? Especially if I load lighter, I wonder how long i can use them.

[vujade]

by the way, I also had some PRVI Partisan 308 cases. they are re-loadable but my small trials showed they didn't hold a group quite like the Federals. I guess even cases make a huge difference...like what .002 in difference can do right.

[Guest HCRoadie]

question - what is the benefit of putting a bevel on the case?

It makes seating the bullet easier

thanks for all the info. I assume just keep firing the brass until it's too long and then trim it?

Actually, that is one of the parameters that need to be consistent. So measure and trim as necessary right off the bat.

Another question - in your experiences, how many reloads can you get out of a 308 case? Especially if I load lighter, I wonder how long i can use them.

I only load for .223 and so far I've load some cases 4 times, most of them less, with no issues. I can not speak for .308 cases

[Jonnin]

I hit mine with the trimmer every time. Sometimes it does not do anything (trimmer does not cut because it is already short enough) and other times it just bumps it lightly (polishes, but does not really do much). Once in a while it cuts of visible amounts of brass. Seems to be at random when it cuts off noticable amounts, I cannot find any pattern.

I load my 308s fairly light (not a whole lot over a 30-30 in overall performance) for short range fun and so far the only losses have been one or 2 split necks, at 5 or so reloads. I think I had one case buckle. So out of around 100 cases fired 5 or 6 times each, I have lost 5 or less.