Question about self defense in your home

[Glenn]

One of my sons asked me this question and I wasn't sure of the answer so thought I would post it here. Scenario: You are awakened by sounds of someone in your house. You sneak out and see two men, obviously armed, with their backs to you. Can you shoot the first one in the back or do you have to warn them to turn around, creating a reasonable chance that one of them will at least get off a shot and could kill you.

Glenn

[gjohnsoniv]

That sounds kinda like a bush whacking. Shooting people in the back will probably just get you thrown in jail on murder charges.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

How my neighbor described a similar question.

Edited May 29, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Glenn]

It sorta does, but yelling "Here I am, turn and face me" sounds sorta like John Wayne, and I ain't no John Wayne.

Glenn

[Guest j2thawood]

I would say call the police if you have a phone on you and if they turn around let the lead fly!

[gjohnsoniv]

That too. Unfortunately the law is the law, and with the way the criminals get off now a days you would be lucky if he didn't sue you.

[Will Carry]

That is a tough question. Once you drop that hammer there is no going back. Plus the police don't clean up the mess you make, you have to do that yourself.

They will remove the bodies but the blood and gore they leave behind. The memories will never go away. I say shoot'em.

[Guest bkelm18]

Personally, I would have no qualms with shooting them while their back was turned to me. They are in my home, they are armed, I am in fear of my life.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I am not an attorney, but I am a former LEO (Kentucky and Florida), so take this for a grain of salt. It has been my understanding that you are only allowed to use deadly force to prevent the immanent use of deadly force against you or another or to prevent a forcible felony such as rape or kidnapping. Generally, if someone has made unlawful entry into your home, you have prima facie evidence that the person is there to do you harm (especially in your scenario where there are multiple individuals who are armed). Unless that state has a statutory duty to retreat, you are allowed to claim self defense if you use deadly force against them. With that said, I would not engage an individual without challenging them to halt. This would give them an opportunity to identify themselves if they happened to be a family member (one good reason not to sneak up and shoot someone in the back). It would also give them a chance to comply so you could hold them for police, or they might flee, thus saving you a TON of stress and grief for shooting someone (just think about poor old George Zimmerman). My advice is to never use deadly force unless there is truly no other option. Obviously, if you were to challenge them, it would be wise to take up a defensive position of concealment and cover in case they did wheel around and try to take a shot at you. I also like to keep a very bright flashlight next to my handgun since a little blinding light never hurts to gain a momentary advantage.

As an aside, this myth that you can never shoot someone in the back is just that: a myth. If the suspect is getting ready to cause grievous bodily harm to another and the only shot you have is to shoot them in the back, then so be it. As long as the shooting was legally justified, it doesn't matter how you engage the target, how many times you shoot them, or whether they were facing you or not. The problem here is that so many people unquestionably buy into this myth (including LEOs) that you do face a tougher challenge in proving a justifiable use of deadly force. Just one more reason to make sure you have no other options before pulling that trigger.

Edited May 29, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[DaveTN]

If they are burglars the law is clear. You will go to court with a presumption that you were in danger of death or great bodily harm. However, I see nothing in the law that says the DA can’t take you to trial if he thinks he can break down that presumption.

An off duty Deputy was out with some friends and wanted to show them a house that was for sale. He thought the owner was out of town…. he was wrong. They were on the back deck when the owner fired through the door killing the deputy. The owner had no idea who was out there or what their intent was. He was not brought to trial. Not that I think that would happen in all counties, but it gives you an idea of a real life Tennessee scenario that was called self-defense.

Would I shoot them in the back? No, I have other options. But I think it would be legal as long as there were no extenuating circumstances.

[Garufa]

You already have the advantage so a simple "Hey" will have them turning around. Then you can defend your home with dignity and most likely without fear of some ridiculous charges.....in my opinion.

[RichardR]

As far as I am aware there is no legal statute that forbids a homeowner from shooting an armed intruder from any particular angle (ie in the back) nor am I aware of any legal statute that mandates a homeowner must first verbally challenge an armed intruder before using deadly force.

[Glenn]

I can accept that you could conceal yourself in a house, but cover, not so much. Sheetrock walls? Interior doors? No protection at all. Appliance? Not much better.Have you ever seen a refridgerator that has been shot? Maybe if your gun safe is sitting in the middle of the room it would make decent cover.I don't know.I don't really want to shoot someone in the back or anywhere else, but I sure don't want someone to shoot me.

Glenn

[maroonandwhite]

I can accept that you could conceal yourself in a house, but cover, not so much. Sheetrock walls? Interior doors? No protection at all. Appliance? Not much better.Have you ever seen a refridgerator that has been shot? Maybe if your gun safe is sitting in the middle of the room it would make decent cover.I don't know.I don't really want to shoot someone in the back or anywhere else, but I sure don't want someone to shoot me.

Glenn

+1

[sschrick]

my HCP class had (basically) this same example. Two men, in your home, middle of the night, backs to you. With backs to you, you cannot determine whether or not they have weapons in their hands or in front of them (like in a front pocket or waistband), therefore, we were taught that it is OK to shoot in this situation. You can presume they are there illegally with intentions to cause bodily harm.

Also, castle doctrine comes into play in this case.

Ultimately, pulling the trigger is your decision, but like others have said, no duty to retreat, no duty to identify.

[peejman]

Castle doctrine, imminent danger, etc. not withstanding, I don't think I could bring myself to fire the first shot into a man's back with no warning. Had there been verbal threats, shots already fired, or they were between me and my loved ones... no worries.

[kwe45919]

I can accept that you could conceal yourself in a house, but cover, not so much. Sheetrock walls? Interior doors? No protection at all. Appliance? Not much better.Have you ever seen a refridgerator that has been shot? Maybe if your gun safe is sitting in the middle of the room it would make decent cover.I don't know.I don't really want to shoot someone in the back or anywhere else, but I sure don't want someone to shoot me.

Glenn

You really need to rethink this. Simple cover behind a wall or couch while crouching and ALREADY having your front sight on one of the intruders is more than suffecient for barrier protection. You fire the first shot on the first guy and the second guy will have to figure out where you are, turn and attempt to shoot at you. If you are a sloppy shot, you still can get up to 4 rounds off before the second guy is fully turned. Even if you miss all 4 shots to the second guy, he will more than likely be running for cover himself or running out of the house. Remember, most "general" burglers will run, not fight.

I simply say, get into position, make your presence known by saying what ever, and then determine if shooting is necessary. With them being in my home without my concent, I have already determined that they are a threat but to what extent depends on what I can see or what their actions deptic.

[daddyo]

If they have broken into my home and are armed, then I figure they aren't there to sell me a magazine subscription.

I'm not giving them the opportunity to get a shot off at me or anyone else in my home. I told my wife a long time ago that if anyone ever invaded our home for any reason, there would be a lot of blood, and it wouldn't be mine.

[gjohnsoniv]

If they are burglars the law is clear. You will go to court with a presumption that you were in danger of death or great bodily harm. However, I see nothing in the law that says the DA can’t take you to trial if he thinks he can break down that presumption.

An off duty Deputy was out with some friends and wanted to show them a house that was for sale. He thought the owner was out of town…. he was wrong. They were on the back deck when the owner fired through the door killing the deputy. The owner had no idea who was out there or what their intent was. He was not brought to trial. Not that I think that would happen in all counties, but it gives you an idea of a real life Tennessee scenario that was called self-defense.

Would I shoot them in the back? No, I have other options. But I think it would be legal as long as there were no extenuating circumstances.

One of my police friends up in Monteagle told me about that one, real shame. How he claimed self-defense for a headshot through a window is beyond me.

[hornett22]

I know who I have given a key to.No one. Still the dogs will bark.

You're only other option is you called in advance and I know you so I turned the lights and coffee maker on and am waiting for you .

Other than those two scenarios, you're going to have a very bad night.

I have a TLR-1s and I know how to use it.

[tnhawk]

One of my sons asked me this question and I wasn't sure of the answer so thought I would post it here. Scenario: You are awakened by sounds of someone in your house. You sneak out and see two men, obviously armed, with their backs to you. Can you shoot the first one in the back or do you have to warn them to turn around, creating a reasonable chance that one of them will at least get off a shot and could kill you.

Glenn

This is the reason I have several dogs in the house.

[Caster]

Okay, it's easy to type what we'd all do when we are safe and sound and can think our responses through to conclusion, BUT...If their backs are to you, you have the element of surprise. I would say hunker down and take aim. Make yourself small and difficult to hit. Then, patience. If you have aim on them and are poised at the ready, you have the initiative. Patience and focus.

[Guest 270win]

There is no law in Tennessee requiring that burglar in your house has to face you to resort to deadly force. The law basically makes it that a burglar causes people to fear for their lives when entering a house or building. I would be very careful about letting one face me. The law does not require the burglar to be armed either when he has busted in your house.

To me, when a burglar has busted into a house, he has opened himself up to someone using deadly force on him. Burglars know it and it is their problem legally if they are hurt or killed breaking into someone else's house.

[JayC]

One of my sons asked me this question and I wasn't sure of the answer so thought I would post it here. Scenario: You are awakened by sounds of someone in your house. You sneak out and see two men, obviously armed, with their backs to you. Can you shoot the first one in the back or do you have to warn them to turn around, creating a reasonable chance that one of them will at least get off a shot and could kill you.

Glenn

Under tn state law, if somebody forcibly enters your house, it is assumed you have a reasonable fear of death or serious injury. You are under no obligation to attempt to offer surrender to a home intruder under tn law.

Even more importantly no DA is going to file charges against a home owner who shoots two men who broke into your home and are armed in the middle of the night.

Further there is some really bad advice... First there is no such thing as a fair gun fight, there are people who fight fair, and winners. If somebody comes into your home armed, they're not there to bake you cookies... Use every tactical advantage they offer you, if that means exploiting their mistake of turning their backs to you... Take it.

Once they're aware of you and your location, you have reduced your tactical advantage... Much better to be arrested and go to trail, than to be dead and God knows what they do to the rest of your family. Nobody here will call you a coward for shooting an armed intruder in the back.

Edited May 30, 2012 by JayC

[daddyo]

Seriously, is there anyone who doesn't believe that two armed men who have forced their way into your home in the middle of the night have any intent other than taking what they want, including your life?

It's not a freakin' game of hide and seek.

Edited May 30, 2012 by DaddyO

[mikegideon]

You already have the advantage so a simple "Hey" will have them turning around. Then you can defend your home with dignity and most likely without fear of some ridiculous charges.....in my opinion.

Especially if they get a few shots off, and one or two connect.