photo speed enforcement equipment

[Timestepper]

So do you blame the gun when somebody gets shot?

And the spoon when somebody eats too much...

It's always everyone else's fault!

[Sam1]

So do you blame the gun when somebody gets shot?

Has nothing to do with it, I'm not blaming the people that build the cameras or the equipment itself. A better analogy would be from the middle east, do I blame the government for allowing a woman to be stoned to death because her burqa rose above her ankles when started running down the side walk? Yep, sure do.

[R_Bert]

I live in Oak Ridge. I shop in Oak Ridge. I go to school in Oak Ridge. Not once have I triggered a speed camera or red light camera. Nor have I ever witnessed an accident or been part of an accident as a result of these cameras. I am a responsible driver. That is why I find it laughable that the people that call for these things to be removed are missing the point entirely. These things operate on money. When they stop catching speeders they will cease to exist. It's really that simple. Anyone can call them unconstitutional, however the courts will not agree with you.

Fine.

I have not tripped any either.

My point is not constitutionality, but simply cause and effect. Traffic cameras are only one issue there.

Show me net economic growth in Oak Ridge. In fact, show me even a trend curving upwards.

The cameras are a symptom of larger problems. Getting rid of anything other than the people who propagate the problems (*in any city*) will not help.

B.

Edited May 27, 2012 by R_Bert

[Guest Field Boss]

Has nothing to do with it, I'm not blaming the people that build the cameras or the equipment itself. A better analogy would be from the middle east, do I blame the government for allowing a woman to be stoned to death because her burqa rose above her ankles when started running down the side walk? Yep, sure do.

Sam1, I don't know what a burqais is , but I like what you said!

[R_Bert]

Most of the time, the cameras are fixed position.

Locals have learned go around them.

Visitors get hammered (stupid people..you better not come back and violate our traffic laws!).

[JohnC]

What I love about the redlight cams is when they first put them in and they rig the light to change super fast! Obviously they do that to generate quick revenue for the cost of buying and setting up the new equipment.

I see them more as a scam myself based on all of what I've already stated.

Just my opinion. Don't get butthurt about it.

[Timestepper]

What I love about the redlight cams is when they first put them in and they rig the light to change super fast! Obviously they do that to generate quick revenue for the cost of buying and setting up the new equipment.

I see them more as a scam myself based on all of what I've already stated.

Just my opinion. Don't get butthurt about it.

For God's sake don't faint, but, as a truck driver, I happen to share your opinion on traffic light cameras - my own first post in this thread (post # 4) said as much. Pardon me for not having the same opinion of speed cameras - as I also mentioned in post # 4, at least with a speed camera you have a chance and a choice.

[JohnC]

You guys are both pigeon holing and denigrating the respondents to this thread and obfuscating the initial issue which was speed cameras in a specific municipality.

I don't recall saying anywhere that I'm in favor of speed cameras (or drones or more regulations). Or that the aforementioned cameras have anything to do safety. I've said, if you don't want to get a speeding ticket, DON'T SPEED! And as much as I don't want to speak for the other posters here it seems like that has been the general consensus. bkelm18 even mentioned a great way to get rid of them: Slow down and abide by traffic laws and negate the revenue that they produce! All that seems pretty simple and straight forward (at least to me).

But according to you guys, if we're not dead set against them or fearing for our lives and liberty then we must all be mindless sheeple in favor of more government intrusions who will in fact welcome the coming of the Big Brother state. To that I respond: BULLCRAP! You keep advocating personal rights without ever taking into account that YOU don't have the RIGHT - or the personal individual knowledge of each of us - to make that assumption. How dare you presume to tell me what I'm thinking or in favor of?!! Talk about a Big Brother mentality! You make the wrongful assumption that If we don't think the way YOU think - that is to say if we don't readily adopt your Chicken Little mentality and decry the very existence of speed cameras and all of the evil you claim they represent - then we're wrong and naive and somehow don't believe in the things that made this country great. And to that I say: BULLFEATHERS! Talk about intrusiveness! You're intruding into my head and telling me what to think! And I somehow find myself resenting that more than some stupid camera nailed to a pole with a sign below it warning you that it's there!

You want a cop to write the ticket? Great! Speed past one. I'm sure he or she will be happy to oblige. But the same people who slow down for speed cameras and then speed up again will slow down when they see a cop and then speed right back up as soon as they perceive themselves out the "danger zone." I see it every day! And how is a cop who "hides" any less an intrusion than a speed camera that sits there in plain sight?

As to the TSA - do they have speed cameras? No? Then what the hell are they doing in a thread about speed cameras? Oh, that's right! It's a correlation to somehow prove that we're all sheeple and too dumb to know the sky is falling. Give me a freakin' break! Next thing you'll be telling me is that there was a speed camera on the grassy knoll or that the guy on the grassy knoll invented speed cameras to bring about the downfall of modern society by turning us into... Jesus, I can't even go on, this is so asinine!

Don't want a speeding ticket? DON'T SPEED!!! Don't want speed cameras? Negate the revenue by NOT SPEEDING and convince everyone else in your municipality not to speed. Want to repeal some of the laws and regulations that are in place to protect the idiots who refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions? Start advocating the use of common sense and common courtesy. But stay out of my head and quit telling me what you think I think because you assume I disagree with you! Jesus, talk about the thought police!

Later!

...TS...

Unlike you quoting me directly, I did not quote you directly. I was not responding to anyone specifically, but my response was based on a number of posts made.

That said, stop personalizing this so much. You'll go crazy if you take things such as a thread on the internet so seriously.

I don't personalize any of this, not even the tin foil hat comments.

I'll tell you this, we're not bad guys here for having the opinions we have just like you guys are not. We just have different opinions. At the end of the day, I'm the type of person that would give you the shirt off my back if you needed it.

So let's all step back here, take a deep breathe and then debate this some more.

[Timestepper]

Unlike you quoting me directly, I did not quote you directly. I was not responding to anyone specifically, but my response was based on a number of posts made.

That said, stop personalizing this so much. You'll go crazy if you take things such as a thread on the internet so seriously.

I don't personalize any of this, not even the tin foil hat comments.

I'll tell you this, we're not bad guys here for having the opinions we have just like you guys are not. We just have different opinions. At the end of the day, I'm the type of person that would give you the shirt off my back if you needed it.

So let's all step back here, take a deep breathe and then debate this some more.

Respectfully suggest you read post #'s 4 & 82. You might find that "we" don't disagree as much as you think we do. (But once again you're suggesting how the rest of us should think and react, "personal" or not.)

Edited May 27, 2012 by Timestepper

[JohnC]

Respectfully suggest you read post #'s 4 & 82. You might find that "we" don't disagree as much as you think we do. (But once again you're suggesting how the rest of us should think and react, "personal" or not.)

Below is the post you quoted. Where specifically did I "suggest how you should think?"

I said "folks won't get it until it's too late." Meaning we'll be (based on history) giving up more and more to big government like past socialist and communist countries did before they collapsed and current European socialist countries have.

Below is not directed at you, just random opinion and a bit OT.

But of course history means nothing to anyone because most folks think it'll never happen in America. Yet if you compare us to European socialism, the lines blur. We have very little left before we are there 100%.They'll ban, regulate, legislate and nudge us right to it if we don't remain vigilant and fight it when they try it.

They won't get it until it's too late. It's the trend nowadays. Give up everything to the government, they'll take care of you, your health and safety. Riiiight!!

For the others....

No amount of traffic cameras is going to reduce traffic accidents or fatalities.Think about it folks, with all the police on the roads now, there is a statistic or an average no matter what you do in regards to accidents and fatalities. So how do you think a revenue generating camera with low cost tickets and no points on your record will deter speeders (and red light runners)? They aren't even taxed time wise as they don't get pulled over; they can just continue on. And when they spot those traps and learn their locations, they just slow down and speed right back up! Absolutely useless.

At least uniformed officers can hide and move around.

[Timestepper]

Never mind. You're right, I'm wrong. There. All better now?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Timestepper

[JohnC]

I'm just tired of people everywhere who refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions and would rather blame that on a greater evil than admit that, sometimes, they're just not being realistic.

This is where you do the same thing you're griping at us for (see bold).

I'm not going to throw a fit at your blanket opinion like you do ours and take it all personal.

For the sake of setting the record straight....

Based on your statements, you're problem is you think some folks who are disagreeing with you do not want to take "personal responsibility" for for their actions (speeding, etc.).

I've not had a speeding ticket in more than 14 years. I've had zero speed-cam or redlight-cam tickets. If I was in the crowd you speak of that supposedly share my opinions, then I should have at least accumulated some tickets in all these years, right? So that said, your blanket assumption doesn't hold water and has nothing to do with our opinions on speed-cams and redlight-cams.

Go back and read my posts about why I think these cams are a waste and take note I am a-ok with LEO's doing this job as they're more effective.

[Guest BungieCord]

photo speed enforcement revene collection equipment

Fixed it for you.

Some guys are taking advantage of the 'custom landmark' feature in most GPSs and have compiled a file with the location of all the stop light cameras and permanently fixed speed cameras in the US they can find. It gives a voice alarm when you're approaching the camera. I know the file is available (free) for Garmins, possibly others as well. I loaded the file in my Nuvi and so far it's been 100% accurate. But then again, there aren't a lot of either in Middle Tennessee.

[Timestepper]

I'm not going to throw a fit at your blanket opinion like you do ours and take it all personal.

Actually, it would appear that you have indeed done exactly that.

Go back and read my posts about why I think these cams are a waste and take note I am a-ok with LEO's doing this job as they're more effective.

Go back and read my newly edited post above and it'll all be okay.

You hate speed cameras and I'm willing to give up all my freedoms and liberties because I don't really don't give a rat's @ss about them, but I'm the one who needs to take a chill pill and quit taking internet threads personally - I get that. You're right and I'm wrong. If there were a handshake emoticon on here, I'd use it right now to prove my sincerity. Since there isn't, I'll use this one:

And this one:

[JohnC]

Actually, it would appear that you have indeed done exactly that.

Go back and read my newly edited post above and it'll all be okay.

You hate speed cameras and I'm willing to give up all my freedoms and liberties because I don't really don't give a rat's @ss about them, but I'm the one who needs to take a chill pill and quit taking internet threads personally - I get that. You're right and I'm wrong. If there were a handshake emoticon on here, I'd use it right now to prove my sincerity. Since there isn't, I'll use this one:

And this one:

Got to leave the debate to visit family today.

Enjoy your memorial day my friend! I ain't mad at ya and if you see me at a local range, drop in and say hello. I don''t hate folks that disagree with me politically, so hope you treat me likewise!

Later fellas!

[Timestepper]

Got to leave the debate to visit family today.

Enjoy your memorial day my friend! I ain't mad at ya and if you see me at a local range, drop in and say hello. I don''t hate folks that disagree with me politically, so hope you treat me likewise!

Later fellas!

I'm not mad at you either. And I don't disagree with you politically (although you continue to assume that I do), I just don't agree that speed cameras are an inherent evil. (And the only range I use is in my back yard where big brother can't spy on me.)

Have a great day - I'll be on the road to Illinois and still refusing to get my panties in a bunch over speed cameras by the time you get back.

[Sam1]

Some guys are taking advantage of the 'custom landmark' feature in most GPSs and have compiled a file with the location of all the stop light cameras and permanently fixed speed cameras in the US they can find. It gives a voice alarm when you're approaching the camera. I know the file is available (free) for Garmins, possibly others as well. I loaded the file in my Nuvi and so far it's been 100% accurate. But then again, there aren't a lot of either in Middle Tennessee.

That and the smart phone app called trapster and the new radar detectors are linked up to warn about them as well. My guess is that when technology passes the traps and there is no more revenue to be made, they will then ban any device that warns of an upcoming system.

[RobertNashville]

With today's technology, it isn't difficult at all to automatically record a vehicle's speed and location and whether it is or isn't in violation of the posted speed limit or running a red light - all from a couple of small devices installed in the vehicle with the data automatically transmitted to law enforcement for them to generate a ticket without human intervention of any kind. With the black boxes already being mandated; this would be a minor addition and we could dispense with all the cameras and such that require dollars to purchase/maintain/run.

After all, if we never speed and never run a red light there wouldn't be any harm to anyone.

Okay...a bit more seriously...

Obviously red light and/or speed cameras are not a big deal...they don't signal the end of freedom and liberty and honestly, we shouldn't run red lights whether we get "caught" or not and I see a lot of dangerous speeding almost everyday. My problem with speed cameras is that, in many cases, speed limits are set where they are because most drivers simply aren't good drivers - only a tiny fraction of drivers ever take driver training courses beyond what is necessary to pass their test for their license (sounds familiar doesn't it?)...most have no clue what their skills actually are (or aren't) nor what their vehicles can and cannot do or how to handle an emergency situation. Soooooo....the "state's" answer, as usual, is to address the problem from the easiest standpoint - lower speed limits for all rather than require better skills of those on the road.

My problem with both red light and speed cameras is that they aren't there for safety or to benefit society at all; they are there to generate revenue for whatever entity put up the equipment.

Law enforcement isn't supposed to be a profit center; it's supposed to be about keeping a civilized society, civilized and in my always humble opinion, that is NOT what these red light/speed cameras do.

Edited May 29, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

That and the smart phone app called trapster and the new radar detectors are linked up to warn about them as well. My guess is that when technology passes the traps and there is no more revenue to be made, they will then ban any device that warns of an upcoming system.

I use that system right now...it works great and the warnings will only improve as more and more people opt for it. It works in conjunction with my iPhone and my Escort Redline; all I need to add was the powercord (with the right circuitry and Bluetooth capability). I saw a LOT of LEOs this weekend traveling to/from Ohio, all in all about 1,200 miles driven and in most cases, I knew where they were before they ever had a chance to see me.

[DaveS]

Clarksville's "Big Brother" has some new toys.....

http://www.cityofclarksville.com/street/citycams.php

[RobertNashville]

Well...this is interesting!

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/05/29/missouri-judge-rules-red-light-cameras-in-st-louis-are-unconstitutional/

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yes, it is. I guess that destroys the utopians' argument around here.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Clarksville's "Big Brother" has some new toys.....

http://www.cityofcla...et/citycams.php

Isn't our fair city the bastion of progressivism, just under Oak Ridge. I wasn't for Kim. Piper didn't stop it, either. I

think the cameras were up under him. Those cameras are a lousy shot for traffic.

[JohnC]

Well...this is interesting!

http://foxnewsinside...constitutional/

Flawless victory!

[Guest BungieCord]

Part of the problem is that a lot of traffic signals themselves do not comply with the TCAs. Tenn. Code Ann. § 55-8-110 states that, "...the minimum time exposure of the yellow light shall be three (3) seconds..," and many are not. I know because I've timed a few since I discovered this statute. And while it's uncommon that roads with a 55 or 65 mph speed limits have traffic light, I think it's ridiculous they are not required to have a longer yellow than a light on a 30 mph street does.