Zimmerman Trial Updates - Ongoing

[Guest bkelm18]

It what we do; it’s all we can do. A jury will have all the information laid out in front of them. They will not only know what the witnesses have to say, but they will judge their credibility. They will get to see everything and have everything explained to them in detail. We only get whatever the media gives us.

We aren’t going to be on this jury, and if someone from Florida develops an opinion based on what they read here, they would have to lie to make it through jury selection. We are just discussing; our opinions mean nothing.

I don’t think the jury will have a problem determining what happened. I think the big question will be a legal one. Can you stalk, engage, and cause a citizen that is committing no crime to become fearful of you, and then kill him claiming self-defense when he protects himself? I say no.

Unless someone can show me some evidence why Zimmerman thought he had a right to stop and interfere with Treyvon Martin’s peaceful journey through the neighborhood, other than it was a black kid he didn’t recognize; he should have stayed in that truck and waited on the cops.

Treyvon Martin was in a place he had a lawful right to be. He was doing nothing wrong and was accosted by a stranger. He had no duty to run or retreat. He defended himself…. That is what stand your ground is all about. Unfortunately all he had to defend himself with was his hands, and his attacker pulled a gun a shot him to death.

Zimmerman had every lawful right to be there as well. The neighborhood he was trying to protect, HIS neighborhood, had been burglarized several times by young black males. He was doing what his neighborhood wanted him to do, try and curb the crime. Treyvon had offensive wounds. Zimmerman had defensive wounds. Where do you get that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon? You can't sit there and say Trayvon was doing nothing wrong and was shot in cold blood. Obviously, something went down and the evidence reported simply doesn't support that Trayvon was just walking around and Zimmerman came up and shot him for no reason. The wounds on the back of Zimmerman's head could have very easily been life threatening. It doesn't take one or two knocks on your skull, then it's lights out. It simply isn't as cut and try as you want it to be.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Thank you, Spock. I tried to say that, too. It appears that logic comes in all shapes and colors around here sometimes,

wouldn't you say?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And another thing to those saying Martin's attack was provoked by Zimmerman. What does it take to provoke a

gang thug? Some people communicate and others act like you've stepped on their toe and want to smash your

face in. I'd posit Martin was of the latter group.

[QuietDan]

And another thing to those saying Martin's attack was provoked by Zimmerman. What does it take to provoke a

gang thug? Some people communicate and others act like you've stepped on their toe and want to smash your

face in. I'd posit Martin was of the latter group.

Well, apparently the male and female Virginia-Pilot reporters that underwent a beat-down recently "disrespected" the mob of black 'youts' at a street intersection when the female reporter fearfully auto-locked the car doors. I guess that's enough to provoke gang thugs, showing fear and all.

Edited May 19, 2012 by QuietDan

[TMF]

Thank you, Spock. I tried to say that, too. It appears that logic comes in all shapes and colors around here sometimes,

wouldn't you say?

Logic is a relative term unique to each person. I've known people who thought it was perfectly logical to blow themselves up as a quick pass to eternal paradise. I know people who think its logical that 9/11 was a giant conspiracy by the military industrial complex. I guess how folks develop their version of logic is a combination of environment, reasoning skills, life experience and intelligence. I base my logic on life experience and the ability to identify my own prejudices to understand exactly why I think a certain way. This is my method to determining what I believe to be reasonable assumptions.

Edited May 20, 2012 by TMF 18B

[TMF]

Well, apparently the male and female Virginia-Pilot reporters that underwent a beat-down recently "disrespected" the mob of black 'youts'....

What's a "yout"?....

[mcurrier]

I think the big question will be a legal one. Can you stalk, engage, and cause a citizen that is committing no crime to become fearful of you, and then kill him claiming self-defense when he protects himself? I say no.

Is that what happened?

Unless someone can show me some evidence why Zimmerman thought he had a right to stop and interfere with Treyvon Martin’s peaceful journey through the neighborhood, other than it was a black kid he didn’t recognize; he should have stayed in that truck and waited on the cops.

Peaceful journey? Zimmerman didn't know it was a "black kid" until almost the end. He told police dispatch that he wasn't sure, so any presumption of planned stalking of Martin based on his race is flawed. He got out of truck to see where Martin had disappeared to and see what the location was by looking at street signs to inform police dispatch. This has been established before for those who are behind on story details.

Treyvon Martin was in a place he had a lawful right to be.

Walking through yards and close to buildings?

He was doing nothing wrong and was accosted by a stranger.

Again, walking through yards and close to buildings? Accosted? Once again, Martin was acting suspiciously, he fit the description of suspect(s) of recent robberies/burglaries in the neighborhood. Zimmerman was keeping him under surveillance, not stalking orvaccosting him.

He had no duty to run or retreat. He defended himself…. That is what stand your ground is all about. Unfortunately all he had to defend himself with was his hands, and his attacker pulled a gun a shot him to death.

This is completely opposite of what all testimony and evidence indicates thus far.

[Oh Shoot]

What's a "yout"?....

Should be spelled "yute" or "yoot" (as per My Cousin Vinny)

http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/pub/misc/yutes.wav

- OS

Edited May 20, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Logic is a relative term unique to each person. I've known people who thought it was perfectly logical to blow themselves up as a quick pass to eternal paradise. I know people who think its logical that 9/11 was a giant conspiracy by the military industrial complex. I guess how folks develop their version of logic is a combination of environment, reasoning skills, life experience and intelligence. I base my logic on life experience and the ability to identify my own prejudices to understand exactly why I think a certain way. This is my method to determining what I believe to be reasonable assumptions.

I didn't know that. Thanks.

[QuietDan]

What's a "yout"?....

From "My Cousin Vinny" -- 'youths' with one of the East Coast accents -- Brooklyn, I think.

Edited May 20, 2012 by QuietDan

[TMF]

From "My Cousin Vinny" -- 'youths' with one of the East Coast accents -- Brooklyn, I think.

Ha, yeah I remember. I was actually quoting the judge from the movie.

[QuietDan]

Ha, yeah I remember. I was actually quoting the judge from the movie.

Yeah, I guess you were. It also took me a while to get that your avatar is Walter (???) from "The Big Lebowski" (????)

Edited May 20, 2012 by QuietDan

[Erik88]

I'm sure more evidence will come out as the trial progresses but as it stands right now it seems pretty straight forward. Based on what we know so far:

Zimmerman did not commit any crime leading up to the confrontation. Just because he was following the kid does not mean he deserves to have his head bashed into a sidewalk. Zimmerman has no offensive wounds on his body. He appears to be the one taking the beating, not giving.

I'm pretty confident Zimmerman will walk.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Erik88

[TMF]

Yeah, I guess you were. It also took me a while to get that your avatar is Walter (???) from "The Big Lebowski" (????)

Walter Sobchek. Perhaps one of the best movie characters ever.

[Ebow1]

I can't put myself in Martin's shoes. I don't smoke pot.

[TMF]

I can't put myself in Martin's shoes. I don't smoke pot.

And I don't like Skittles. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with someone who is being chased for no apparent reason.

[DaveTN]

Zimmerman was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence†and “battery of law enforcement officer.†both charges were third-degree felonies. The charges were reduced to “resisting officer without violence†and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program.

Zimmerman’s girlfriend got an order of protection alleging Domestic Violence.

Domestic violence, felony battery, alcohol treatment, and he had a carry permit. Could that be because his Father was a retired Judge?

Wouldn’t trace amounts of THC seems to pale in comparison if we are looking for factors that would have led to a violent encounter?

[mikegideon]

Zimmerman was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence†and “battery of law enforcement officer.†both charges were third-degree felonies. The charges were reduced to “resisting officer without violence†and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program.

Zimmerman’s girlfriend got an order of protection alleging Domestic Violence.

Domestic violence, felony battery, alcohol treatment, and he had a carry permit. Could that be because his Father was a retired Judge?

Wouldn’t trace amounts of THC seems to pale in comparison if we are looking for factors that would have led to a violent encounter?

Retired Magistrate from another state. I'm thinking they were BS charges, based on the accounts I've read. For such a violent guy, Zimmerman sure wasn't very good at it. I got my ass whipped a few times in my younger days, but never without landing some real good licks.

I don't care about Trayvon's weed either. Has nothing to do with what happened, other than to show he wasn't a 12 year old virgin. You can tell that from his Facebook photo.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

No convictions on all those charges. Try harder!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gregintenn]

The difference is that Zimmerman was doing this as a citizen with nothing identifying as neighborhood watch. I don't care that Martin fits a description. I may fit the description of a criminal but if I'm followed or aggressed by someone I'm going to respond with force. That's why we have police. If a police officer is following me or stops me then I'm not going to assume its for the purpose of victimizing me. Put yourself in Martin's shoes. Think hard about how you would react, at least how you would you feel about some suspicious character following you.

I agree!

I don't believe we will ever know the facts of this incident. At this point, I don't have an opinion of whether or not Zimmerman is guilty. I do know that if I were walking around at night, and a mall ninja type fella kept following me, there'd soon be a confrontation. I expect everyone here feels pretty much the same way.

[DaveTN]

I do know that if I were walking around at night, and a mall ninja type fella kept following me, there'd soon be a confrontation. I expect everyone here feels pretty much the same way.

Exactly. And that’s what’s driving my opinion. The difference is if it was you or I a gun would have been in our hand and Zimmerman would have backed away or went for his gun and got shot.

Martin used the only thing he had available to him; and it cost him his life.

[bubbiesdad]

Exactly. And that’s what’s driving my opinion. The difference is if it was you or I a gun would have been in our hand and Zimmerman would have backed away or went for his gun and got shot.

Martin used the only thing he had available to him; and it cost him his life.

I was not aware you could draw your weapon merely because someone was following you.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Exactly. And that’s what’s driving my opinion. The difference is if it was you or I a gun would have been in our hand and Zimmerman would have backed away or went for his gun and got shot.

Martin used the only thing he had available to him; and it cost him his life.

Maybe if the only thing available to him was bad judgement, I might agree with you. Civil people communicate before they resort to fighting.

If Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin, I doubt he would have called the police. If that's all he had available to him, there's more wrong with this

picture than painting Martin a victim of the particular scene. May have something more to do with how he was raised, which seems lacking

to me.

Greg, if Zimmerman was a mall ninja, maybe I might agree, but this was in a neighborhood that Zimmerman was the local and Martin wasn't

and Martin looked suspicious to him. When all the voids in the scenario become clear and someone can prove Zimmerman started a fight

to kill Martin, I will be the first to say I am wrong. I doubt it happens.

[DaveTN]

I was not aware you could draw your weapon merely because someone was following you.

The only law I’m aware of that has to do with drawing a weapon is aggravated assault. I’m not aware of any law that says I can’t have a weapon in my hand. We would find out because if it escalates to the point of me unholstering a weapon, whether I point it or threaten anyone with it or not, I’m calling the Police and waiting for them to arrive.

Martin was being chased by a man with a gun, we don’t know if he saw it or not, but short of someone shooting at you, you just don’t get much more justified than that. It’s a little tough to make a justification argument in a case where the unarmed victim was shot to death and the perp is on trial for murder.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DaveTN

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I was not aware you could draw your weapon merely because someone was following you.

You are just falling for a tactic to change any possible scenario to fit a particular crime. It's not plausible to put

the shoe on the other foot, or reverse the role of the two actors, but only to change the narrative, or to place

victimhood status over justice. It's not justice for Trayvon. It's justice for justice's sake, only. Putting the gun in Martin's

hand to change things is a stunt Ed Crump did to cry racism. Rational people don't buy that argument.