Ammo for a .45 full size 1911

[Guest USMC 2013]

What do you use for training ammo in your 1911? What do you use for carry ammo? If they are different, why?

Here's what I am hoping to find. An affordable round that I can shoot at the range w/o going broke and have reasonable expectations that it will put a man down at 25yds, or less, with a center mass shot.

I'm asking because most "personnal defense" ammo seems to be 185gr and all the bulk .45 I've found so far seems to be standard 230gr FMJ, or ball ammunition.

I like to follow the train of thought, train with what you carry, or intend to shoot with, when the time counts.

Is .45 FMJ good enough for carry ammunition? I'm not talking about hard targets, i.e. body armour, but shooting Johnny the ####head robber. Also, if SHTF ever I want a round that I stored in bulk to serve the purpose I need it to. One shot per target.

That's probably the biggest driver to this thread question. I need a round I can store in bulk and reasonably expect to put a man down with a center mass shot.

Thoughts? Opinions? Even better, what you have experience with? Any LE opinions? Semper Fi and thank you in advance,

Joe

[Lumber_Jack]

I use 230 gn Winchester White Box FMJ for target practice. I've even used Tula but it makes cleaning a pain as its pretty dirty.

I use Hornady FTX 230 gn for defense.

I shot about 60 rnds of FTX to make sure it was reliable and haven't shot any since.

I store only FMJ in bulk since I've started reloading. The way I see it, FMJ is effective just not as much as hollow points. Hell the Military uses only round ball ammo, so it must be at least moderately successful.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Lumber_Jack

[Moped]

The Military uses ball ammunition because it's against the Geneva Convention to use expanding bullets (not sure of the exact wording used, but that the gist). That pretty much limits them to ball, which in order to be effective, needed to be BIG and somewhat slow, so as to expend all it's energy in whoever it hit. 9mm is small and fast and punches on through what it hits. That's one of the reasons the .45ACP hung around so long. Another reason was the 1911a1 was one of the most successful pistols of all time and the military saw no reason to change to a less reliable pistol. They only changed to the 9mm under pressure from NATO. When they did, that's when they went to the Beretta.

My personal philosophy on is to buy several boxes of 230gr defensive ammo (I like Hydra-Shoks myself), half to practice with and half to use as my carry round. Then practice with quality 230gr FMJ. My pistol (Springfield 1911a1 Loaded Edition) shoots almost the same with both rounds. I will say it wouldn't bother me all that much to use FMJ though. It's been proven pretty effective for a century now and should function flawlessly in a 1911a1 if the pistol is worth half a squat. Actually, in a low end 1911a1, that might be my round of choice, since it usually does run flawlessly.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Moped

[Karnage]

That's probably the biggest driver to this thread question. I need a round I can store in bulk and reasonably expect to put a man down with a center mass shot.

Thoughts? Opinions? Even better, what you have experience with? Any LE opinions?

I carry a .45 loaded with Speer Gold Dot 230 grain hollow points at work. For practice and qualifications we shoot whatever 230 grain FMJ is the lowest bid. I have shot Remington/UMC, Speer Lawman, Federal American Eagle. We shoot duty ammo once per year. I cannot tell a difference in recoil or point of impact between the FMJ or the hollow points. I imagine if the bullet weight is the same recoil and point of impact will be the same.

Hollow point bullets are made to expend all of their energy inside of the target.

FMJ bullets may travel completely through the target and hit an unintended target.

Keep in mind that there is no ammunition that can guarantee that you can put a man down with a center mass shot. There are many cases where people have taken numerous hits from pistols (even rifles) and continued to fight.

My recommendation would be to buy good quality hollow point ammunition for carry. Purchase about 200 rounds and shoot half of it to make sure your firearm functions with the ammunition. Then purchase a full metal jacket ammunition with the same bullet weight for practice.

[tnhawk]

I use 230 grain for practice or defense. If I thought one shot per target was a reasonable plan, I wouldn't need to carry spare magazines.

[Guest Nikator]

White box Winchester 100 round target loads from Walmart for practice. Its within a few cents of the Tula ammo and its brass.

If you had to defend yourself this will do the job.

[Jonnin]

in an unmodified, stock .45, I would argue that ANY ammo you select that cycles the action and feeds reliably is capable and worthy of carry for self defense. A FMJ .45 should do very similar damage to the best 9mm JHP defense loads to a bad guy, in other words, and the 9mm is considered sufficient by many. I would also argue that quality hollow points are better in the .45 --- but better and sufficient are 2 different concepts.

As I see it, you have a few options.

-you can buy a case of defense ammo and cry at the price.

-You can buy a bunch of cheap ball ammo and it will work for defense, and you can be happy that you practiced with the same stuff.

- you can buy practice and defense ammo, test a small sample of the defense ammo, and hope that your practice ammo is close enough and that the defense testing was sufficient. Many people do this --- few can afford to buy tons of the defense ammo for practice.

- you can buy an inexpensive hollow point round and do the same thing as the cheap ball ammo. While harder to find, there are often boxes of 50 JHP rounds in various calibers out there that cost very little. They are not hot loads, or low flash powder, or match grade consistency, or the top of the line bullet design, but they do go bang, and they do expand. IMHO better idea than ball ammo, but not by much.

- you can load your own for very low costs, to meet whatever specificiations you like. While internet rumors abound about not loading your own defense ammo to carry, no one has ever provided a case where normal handloaded ammo used in a clean defensive shoot was the one factor that got the shooter into trouble. There is one case that is cited a lot but the ammo really was not the issue in it, it was simple mentioned as a side note. You will have to make your own decisions here. I have no problem defending my handloads in court if someone wants to play that game --- and will be happy to do so, since it means my loads worked and I survived the assault.

-- you can load your own "defense" practice ammo to match your bought defense rounds. It is not hard to match the defense loads -- they give you the bullet weight and velocity or energy on the box.

A side note: in a full sized 45, esp a 1911, the difference in recoil of a 180 or a 230 grain round is minimal. Point of impact out yonder may change, but at defense distance, that also is moot. In this caliber and this type of gun, my opinion is that ANY practice ammo is sufficient to train for ANY defense loadout.

So, one of those options should work for your needs. I have no opinion on which one is best.

[gregintenn]

I shoot and carry 230 grain ball ammo.

[dlm37015]

me too i shoot and cary 230 ball ammo

[Mike.357]

Buy wwb to practice with. Buy a couple of boxes of the defensive round of your choice. Shoot one box of the self defense rounds to check function and POI vs. POA.

Move on with life. Don't overthink this.

[hornett22]

I shoot both but i reload. Mostly shoot FMJ.

I carry hollowpoints mostly in summer. In winter when the heavy clothes and coats come out I carry FMJ.

[Guest USMC 2013]

Great information and some good points made I need to think about. Thank you for the replies. Semper Fi,

Joe

[Oh Shoot]

The Military uses ball ammunition because it's against the Geneva Convention to use expanding bullets...

Hague Convention of 1899. Though it's debatable if that's really the reason.

- OS

Edited May 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[Lumber_Jack]

Hague Convention of 1899. Though it's debatable if that's really the reason.

- OS

NATO pussies don't want to hurt anyone during a war. I think we should use rubber bullets from here on out.

[UncleJak]

I use the cheapest brass fmj I can get, usually the Federal red box from wal mart. It works for anything I need. I know there is better ammo, but I can buy way more of the cheap stuff.

[Hardscrabble]

I reload plated 230gr ball, and that's 90% of what I shoot. I just bought a bunch of Win Supreme PDX 1 to test in a couple of new 1911's. If you're buying ammo, it's hard to beat the S&B 230gr ball. Fairly inexpensive for practice, but it's reliable and has some punch. I have carried it for a long time and didn't feel rained on any.

I wouldn't worry a bit about practicing with one load, but using a different load for SD. What is a big deal to me is that I shoot enough of that SD load to know it's going to function in the pistol I'm carrying it in. I never met a 1911 that wouldn't eat all flavors of ball ammo, but I've seen several that didn't like this or that brand of hollow point ammo. IMO, you're asking for trouble if you shoot white box every weekend, but you carry something else you don't have much experience with...and I mean hundreds of rounds. Not because you'll somehow get different results in terms of POA/POI, or that the gun "feels different" and this somehow reduces your effectiveness, but because you might end up tap-racking when you should be bang-banging.

[tnhawk]

230 FMJ works well.

[alwaysonjohn]

I use hydra-shok for self defense 230grain... and for practice any cheap 230 grain (though I try to stay away from tulammo since my sig 220 magazines does not like them.

[Guest swatcop50]

I carry an STI " Off Duty " all the time, on and off Duty and I like Hornady Critical Def. I don't tell others what they should carry. Know your Gun and your Ammo and don't let others control you life with their ideas................... ; ^ )

[Guest USMC 2013]

After a lot of digging I found that Federal and UMC Remmington make an affordable 230gr JHP. Both run around the $25 range for a box of 50. I'm ordering 2 boxes of each from a local gun store with the intent of running both through my 1911 and buying a case of whichever performs best. That is if one runs w/o any hick-ups. If for some crazy reason my weapon doesn't run smoothly with either I am going to be seriously pi$$ed! That might mean tme for a new pistol.

Thanks again for some great posts,

Joe

[alwaysonjohn]

Make sure you put a good number of 230 grain through the pistol if it is new. I have had several friends complain about their 1911 when it just took 500 230grain rounds to break it in, then it was reliable.

[chances R]

Something to think about. 230gr.FMJ is more likely to over penetrate and shoot through. So my big reason to shoot expanding ammo is to avoid shoot through and injury to someone else. This is true for all calibers.

[QuietDan]

At some point, you'll want the skill, equipment and other logistics to 'roll your own.' Reloading really keeps the costs down and is a SHTF life-skill. Semper Fi and Oo-Rah.

[I_Like_Pie]

Both run around the $25 range for a box of 50.

Holy smack is that how much a box runs these days!!!!

[Guest nowheretobefound]

Read up on terminal ballistics of the different bullet weights and configurations, then question yourself some more! It's always an opinion even after you have the facts.

I carried 1911's my whole career (luckily I did not have to use a nine) and I've seem plenty of what regular FMJs do. My choice is still 230 ball.

I would recommend that if you choose to have hollow points of any sort for defense carry stick with whatever weight you shoot for practice, i.e. most manufactures have 230 grain defense rounds also.