Drop free mags???

[maroonandwhite]

Just curious how you guys train when it comes to extracting an empty mag from a handgun. It seems the fastest way to change an empty mag is to let the empty one fall free while going for the fresh mag. The only problem is some guns do not drop free easily or at all. Would you consider it bad practice to train by pulling the mag out first then going for the fresh mag? I would think with practice you could become proficient either way. Let me know your thoughts.

[Sandman]

If you can free drop your mag that would be better IMO. You off hand can be grabbing the new mag while te other one drops instead of taking your off hand, pulling your mag, and then reloading. It is faster to just drop if you can. With that said, ripping mags should be practiced in case you have a jam.

[Caster]

Which ever way you do it; Do it and do it and do it and do it. Do one thing and do it well. Well, not speedily. Speed isn't fast, smooth is fast. No wasted movements, and repeat the same movement with robotic precision.

[Mike]

You should go for the fresh mag first. If you don't have a fresh mag then dropping the mag in the gun is a moot point.

What gun is it that won't drop mags?

Mike

[chances R]

Preferrably your mags should pass 'in the air' during the exchange. Dropping a mag could signal you are empty, thus possibly placing you at risk unless you are fully loaded. With type 3 malfunctions one generally does have to strip the mag after slidelock.

[mikegideon]

IMO... if your mags won't drop free, you need to fix your mag release or change guns. That's exactly why Vickers developed a mag release for Glock pistols. That thing is perfect.

[Jonnin]

quite a lot of guns do not drop clean. Sometimes you can fix it by polishing the mag walls, sometimes not. You could possibly fix it with a weight in the follower or under it, as well, in some cases. I would say its about 50/50 on drop vs stuck for any random selection of handguns.

If possible, I would prefer it to drop on out with a firm but not excessive or difficult press of the release button, which should be possible to put on either side of the gun. Worst case, a RHO release that does not drop out. Not too bad are heel releases which can be done slight of hand style (makarov, for example).

Also, and quasi related, I would prefer the gun fire without a mag. Guns that require a mag to fire are worthless to me for carry.

[Caster]

IMO... if your mags won't drop free, you need to fix your mag release or change guns. That's exactly why Vickers developed a mag release for Glock pistols. That thing is perfect.

How does the Vicker's compare to the Lone Wolf extended slide release? I bought a L/W and spent some time with some files and a polishing wheel. Removed the sharp edges and shortened it just a hair so it would stop poking the fire out of my waist. It works GREAT. A certain improvement over stock.

I check all the magazines I buy for my G19 many many times. Any that even HINT like they might not fall free get a Yellow "R" on them for range use only. Out of a few dozen, I've only got two so far.

[UncleJak]

I haven't had one stick in any of my "good" guns. I generally try to have the 2nd magazine nearing the bottom of the pistol right when I hit the release button. This works pretty well for me. I am not near as fast as some of the competition guys I have seen, but I know I can do it at a certain speed every time. Practice makes perfect.

[mikegideon]

How does the Vicker's compare to the Lone Wolf extended slide release? I bought a L/W and spent some time with some files and a polishing wheel. Removed the sharp edges and shortened it just a hair so it would stop poking the fire out of my waist. It works GREAT. A certain improvement over stock.

I check all the magazines I buy for my G19 many many times. Any that even HINT like they might not fall free get a Yellow "R" on them for range use only. Out of a few dozen, I've only got two so far.

The Vickers release is in between the stock release and the Glock extended mag release (which will poke our eye out). It also has all the sharp edges removed. I put one on my G19 because it had a Glock extended when I got it. That thing sucks.

My new G36 has a stock release, and you have to lean on it pretty hard to make the mag drop free. There's no off-the-rack solution for the 36, so I'll probably have to get an extended one and whittle it down.

The mags drop free on ALL my pistols.

[maroonandwhite]

You should go for the fresh mag first. If you don't have a fresh mag then dropping the mag in the gun is a moot point.

What gun is it that won't drop mags?

Mike

I had never thought about it that way. I guess in the adrenaline rush you may not remember if you have a mag left. Touch to see if you have a mag first then drop. If you were to train using the "pull" method that would add way too much time to the process.

[chances R]

I had never thought about it that way. I guess in the adrenaline rush you may not remember if you have a mag left. Touch to see if you have a mag first then drop. If you were to train using the "pull" method that would add way too much time to the process.

If it is an emergency reload, no need to check for the mag......out of ammo is out of ammo. A tactical reload, one retains the mag anyway. As I mentioned in my first post, if the support hand has a mag in hand, there is no question either way.

.

[MiddTennTaco]

I've never had a gun with a magazine that did not drop free nor will I ever want one.

[chances R]

can't remember which manufacturer, but someone put a small bump on the mags to catch and prevent a free fall. May have been a CZ.

[MiddTennTaco]

My CZ-75 D PCR definitely does not have it.

[mikegideon]

My CZ-75 D PCR definitely does not have it.

My P01 didn't either. They were fine

[gjohnsoniv]

My CZ doesn't have it.

[EastHipster]

I've had new Glock mags that would stick.

Buffed them down and wiped with Armor all and they are 100%

You can shake a mag out if it doesn't drop

[Guest Primer]

I have personally seen Ronin Combat Stragies instructers (Memphis SWAT COPS) rip rifle and pistol mags out and reload faster than you drop a mag and reload. Damn.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

can't remember which manufacturer, but someone put a small bump on the mags to catch and prevent a free fall. May have been a CZ.

The CZ 75 (pre B models )does not drop free. The original 1911 mags did not drop free. Browning Hi Power mags did not drop free. The original glock mags were not drop free. Why? They were built as combat guns intended to be worn on the belt in harsh conditions where the accidental loss of the loaded magazine in the pistol was a bigger concern than whether the mag would fall out of the gun when it was empty while reloading. Pistols in combat are SECONDARY weapons and as such they will be used little if ever. Needing to get one reloaded in under a second is just not something most soldiers could even do nor would there be many realistic situations where that would be needed.

Lets be honest. In a battlefield situation a super fast pistol reload is rarely going to be the deciding factor on whether you live or die. Especially if you actually use cover and reload behind it. And in a civilian self defense situation you also want to be moving to cover if there is any available.If you have cover and need to reload from slide lock then whether the mag falls free of the gun or whether it needs to be stripped out is a moot point. If you "strip " the mag from the gun as your hand goes from gun to mag pouch then it really does not matter anyways and the time difference is literally 10ths of a second.

If your "Plan A" is to stand flat footed and slug it out with the bad guys like a game of Rock'em Sock'em Robots with bullets until your gun runs dry and then do a smokin' fast reload like in an IPSC match...then yeah, I guess a drop free mag is important. But if you carry a hi cap pistol and actually hit what you aim at the odds of needing to reload from slidelock in the first place is just about zero. Do more Force on Force and less match shooting and you'll see there is a big difference between Time and Timing.

Standing in the open doing a speed reload may yield a faster time. Moving to cover and then reloading will be more likely to keep you alive.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Cruel Hand Luke

[chances R]

Yep.....was the CZ

www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14713.0

[Jamie Jackson]

Excellent post Mr. Harris. Thank you.

Non Drop free mags exist, they are a fact of life for some of us. I've carried a Glock 19 for about 17 years now. I have plenty of drop free mags for it, and quite a few on the older "u" shape non-drop free mags that function perfectly in it.

I know, I can simply relegate them to range use. They already have been so relegated. But, as a default in my training, and since I accept they do exist and that I can screw up and have one in my gun when the balloon goes up, I train to rip the mag out as I go for a fresh mag. The time difference is negligible for my reloads. I'm not an IPSC player, so the 100ths of a second in time doesn't matter to me.

Glocks lend themselves to personal modification. A dremel can be your friend, or your nemesis...it depends on you.

My Glock (s) are modified with a small circular area removed on each side of the mag to facilitate a quick "grip and rip". I've also removed a small amount of the front of the magwell to allow me to rip the mag out on my belt when working a one hand malfunction clearance.

ymmv, but this is a solution...if you're a Glock owner...if you run across difficult mag extraction...and if you choose to do the modification. It hasn't affected function in any way.

Just my unsolicited and ever devaluing $.02 worth.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

If you raise your pistol with our font sight post at eye level and you can see if the mag is falling while you are grabbing you fresh mag that is ideal. However, you will also see that your mag has not dropped and you can give it a rake with your finger (practice grabbing your mag while keeping your pointer finger free to do the raking). Plan for it to drop but know that it sometimes doesn't. That's what we were taught at Mid-South Shooting Academy in Lake Cormorant Mississippi.

[chances R]

If you raise your pistol with our font sight post at eye level and you can see if the mag is falling while you are grabbing you fresh mag that is ideal. However, you will also see that your mag has not dropped and you can give it a rake with your finger (practice grabbing your mag while keeping your pointer finger free to do the raking). Plan for it to drop but know that it sometimes doesn't. That's what we were taught at Mid-South Shooting Academy in Lake Cormorant Mississippi.

Live and learn. I have recently been practicing this method and it makes much more sense. Mr. Murphy is alive and well and if things can go wrong they will, especiallyif the SHTF. I think overall it is faster and takes care of the 'what if the mag doesn't fall free'.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

Live and learn. I have recently been practicing this method and it makes much more sense. Mr. Murphy is alive and well and if things can go wrong they will, especiallyif the SHTF. I think overall it is faster and takes care of the 'what if the mag doesn't fall free'.

By no means to I claim to be an expert, but have learned a few tricks along the way. Glad it works for you.