I opening a can I guess, but..

[Guest atomemphis]

It should be noted that I think the Glock Trigger sucks just as bad then, as it is nowhere as crisp and clean as the 1911 I have.

So Glocks are not for serious shooters.

(Same logic pattern as used before, with Sigmas as the targeted model.)

[molonlabetn]

Heh...

I don't think anybody would argue that the Sigma or Glock really has a 'good' trigger'. Adequete for 'serious' situations though... sure. But probably a poor choice for 'recreation' or 'sport' without some modification

[GhostDog]

I think (but I could be wrong) most people are some combination of all of the above. There's probably nothing to be gained by all this hair splitting.

I said before that the only way to know, is to find out yourself. Other peoples' opinions are fine but they won't necessarily work out the same way for you. Only you can decide if your opinion is "valid", whatever that means. If it works for you, it's obviously "valid".

On a different note, for the guys who like the Sigma trigger, you should try a 4th gen S&W DAO (5943/5946/6946). The reset is longer than a Glock but they are VERY smooth and not too heavy. The are also very underrated and you can get one "for a song" right now.

[Smith]

Self-gratifying terms. IMO. A shooter is a shooter. A distinction only need to be made by those who have superior knowledge and skills.

As I used to say in high school, if you have to tell someone you're cool.... you're not as cool as you think.

[molonlabetn]

I've met alot of people who only hunt, but do not carry or even keep their hunting weapon loaded or accessible at home... and I've met plenty of folks who shoot competetively or recreationally who are the same. I agree that most people do have some inkling of a serious intent for keeping their firearm, but there are many who have not or will not consider it... just like not everyone who has a rifle is interested in hunting.

[GhostDog]

I've been called a lot of things by a lot of people. Cool was not one of them.

[deerslayer]

It should be noted that I think the Glock Trigger sucks just as bad then, as it is nowhere as crisp and clean as the 1911 I have.

So Glocks are not for serious shooters.

(Same logic pattern as used before, with Sigmas as the targeted model.)

Hmmm...Dave Sevigny, Randi Rogers, Massad Ayoob, and Tom Givens all shoot Glocks quite well. At least some Glocks are for serious shooters.

My apologies--I didn't mean to knock your Sigma. If you can rip off three quick, accurate shots, then more power to ya. It's all about what YOU shoot the best, not what others say about your preferred gun. Now you know how it feels to be a Glock shooter.

[DaveTN]

while I enjoyed reading this thread I admit there is not much new here.

Seems you either drink the KoolAde or you don't.

Iam still not sure what makes one better than the S&W Sigma. About all I have heard is the Sigma trigger sucks. And I disagree with that opinion. They smooth out nicely and it is not an issue.

I say you all failed in this task. I do not see it worth the extra expense to buy a Glock. Sounds like a decent but over priced firearm. And I still am clueless about their number code.

All in all the thread has been interesting.

I won’t try to sell you on the Glock; I am a huge S&W fan. But the Sigma was not designed or targeted for the LEO market. Anytime you see a thread where a Glockster is attacking S&W it will always be the Sigma. They pick that model because they know they have a better firearm. I find it amusing that they compare their Glock’s with a firearm that was designed by Smith & Wesson for the bottom feeder market.

You say that you have heard about the Sigma trigger. Try one. It’s not just a matter of smoothing out the trigger it’s also that the trigger pull is ridiculously long.

S&W had many fine firearms in the LEO market, but they weren’t low cost Tupperware. When they took aim at that market they did it with the M&P. They built a weapon that out performs the Glock hands down. They did it with an all American made firearm and keep it in the same price range as the Glock. Both the M&P and the Glock are already in the low end of the price range for a weapon considered as a duty or self defense weapon.

If you want an option to a Glock, make the M&P comparison.

[Guest cartophilis]

Well heres why i bought a Glock...........

I had a nice shiney S&W 5906 that i took to the range one day. My buddy was there with his ugly Glock. He was shooting cans at 40 yards and i couldnt hit a 5 gal bucket with the 5906. So i tried his ugly Glock,the cans died,and i bought a glock and have had it for 20 years or so.

It just made good sense.

Cart -- out

MILITUM SEMPER MEMENTO

[Mike.357]

Dave says

You say that you have heard about the Sigma trigger. Try one.

I must have mis-spoke, I bought a Sigma over a year ago. I have over 2000 rounds through it and the trigger feels about the same as Dotsuns Glock. His is the only Glock I have shot.

I don't notice the long pull, feel normal to me. But then I am not a serious shooter I suppose.

[deerslayer]

Anytime you see a thread where a Glockster is attacking S&W it will always be the Sigma. They pick that model because they know they have a better firearm.

Reading back through the posts...I don't think it was a "Glockster" who originated the comparison.

[Guest m&pc9]

I bought my M&P Compact mainly because it was made in America. And it is a good quality pistol at a fair price.

[Guest mikedwood]

I'm not a serious shooter but I'm not serious about a lot of things. I just love to shoot. I'll give my 2 cents just for the heck of it because I have a G19 and a Sigma.

I got the Glock because I didn't like the Bersa .380 I picked as my 1st (hence training gun) mainly .380 ammo was to high compared to 9mm and an extra 7 round mag was $25 and on back order everywhere at the time, same as most Glock mags, yet impossible to find at the time.

So I took it back and got a Glock G19. I wanted the Sigma for price but didn't like the trigger pull at all. The main reason I picked the Glock the fact you can't walk into a gun store without beiong able to kick a mag and holster for Glocks, Parts and add ons are easy to get. I think Glock has proven love them or hate them they aren't a fad of any sort. I dunno if the Mp and Xd's are or not yet. The Sigma may or may not hang around. Also the reliability was nice and the warranty is pretty good. I chose Glock cause I thought it was a very safe pick aside from them attacking you as I have heard they will.

I have been happy with the G19. It shoots better than I do. I got a used Crimson Trace grip for it for $125 so that's super duper. The 1st three mags it jambed maybe 1400 rounds down it since and nothing but boom using WWB, Blazer, Independence, Remmington. It doesn't care. It likes what's cheap and so do I. Very easy to clean and oil. Is it perfect? No but it's met my expectations and exceeded them.

The Sigma 9mm I got used for a backup to the Glock. About 400 rounds and it does sometimes FTF I dunno if I limp wrist or not but I'm pretty good at clearing a jamb now. It seems more picky on ammo, likes WWB but not Independence. The trigger pull that I hated I got use to after 100 rounds or so and it's not an issue at all. I like to shoot the Sigma but it isn't 100% like the Glock. Maybe 97% on firing so 2 or 3 per 100 I'd say. I think the Sigma would make a great trainer for a new shooter. I'd have to agree with Memphis for $250 or $300 NIB if you are on a budget a Sigma 9mm can't be beat. It met my expectations for a $300 gun.

But my true love and the flavor of Kool-aid I have been drinking is CZ. Both my Cz's had me at Boom.

[Guest atomemphis]

{snippie}

It met my expectations for a $300 gun.

{snippie}

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout. It is great for the price, though I haven't had any FTF.

[Guest mikedwood]

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout. It is great for the price, though I haven't had any FTF.

What ammo do you use?

[Guest atomemphis]

WWB 100 pks

Federal HP's

and the orange box: TN Reloads

occasionally, Kinematics Research (also are reloads)

[Mike.357]

the Sigma but it isn't 100%

over 2000 rounds in mine and it has not failed even one time. I wonder what is different betwen our two guns?

Edited May 15, 2008 by Mike.357

[Guest nraforlife]

M&P 40c 2000+ rds and no issues. Picked it over the Glock 27

[Ricochet]

But my true love and the flavor of Kool-aid I have been drinking is CZ. Both my Cz's had me at Boom.

I really like my G26 and it is handy for all the reasons you mentioned about your Glock but I couldn't agree with you more, I LOVE my CZ. I am really surprised that CZ doesn't have a better following, actually you don't hear much one way or the other about them, but the gun is awesome in my eyes but then I am still new but my PCR won't go anywhere, it will always have a place in my collection.

[Guest Bill Lumberg]

For law enforcement duty use, their combination of accuracy, reliability, durability, low maintenance requirements, and so on, makes glock is top of the heap. That said, other manufacturers have continually come up with models that incorporate some of the reasons glock is number one, and are gaining market share.

If you don't know the difference between a glock and a Sigma, you need to handle and shoot both. One is excellent, one is a comically crappy copy that sucks to shoot, maintain, or have anyone know you own.

For sheer beauty and old school class, a good 1911 like a loaded springfield stainless or even a small-car-priced Nighthawk Custom cannot be beaten, even by Glock.

What makes a Glock "all that"?

Seriously? I don't want to hear the Glock "Perfection" crap.

what makes one so great?

Assuming you can't answer the original question what makes it better than a Sigma? Both are pretty much the same design and the Sigma costs substantially less. I have shot one (Glock), I was not really impressed. I was expecting this revalation about it and, well to be honest I was disappointed. It was okay, but that is it, just okay.

so seriously what makes a Glock so great?

Sell me on it. I am not a Glock hater as such. Just not sure what it is all about.

[Guest atomemphis]

For law enforcement duty use, their combination of accuracy, reliability, durability, low maintenance requirements, and so on, makes glock is top of the heap. That said, other manufacturers have continually come up with models that incorporate some of the reasons glock is number one, and are gaining market share.

If you don't know the difference between a glock and a Sigma, you need to handle and shoot both. One is excellent, one is a comically crappy copy that sucks to shoot, maintain, or have anyone know you own.

For sheer beauty and old school class, a good 1911 like a loaded springfield stainless or even a small-car-priced Nighthawk Custom cannot be beaten, even by Glock.

As a shooter of both the glock and the sigma, your statement "sucks to maintain" is far from the truth. I've zero problems with either. zero. zero FTE, FTRB, FTF, FTFeed, zero problems. Sigma has a heavy crappy trigger, the glock does not. Accuracy is not signficantly different - neither i would use for bullseye. I like my 1911 best, Makarov 2nd, and these two - the glock and the sigma - are tools.

Trigger is really the only difference after putting a couple thousand through each.

[Wrangler]

Wow. What a thread revival.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Just as one would say "great LE use".. one has to remember.. that Glock's sales ppl to LE dept's.. is pricing.. they are willing to underprice the competition right out of the biz if they have too.. personally.. I don't like plastic guns.. I own one.. a G35 and with the CCF metal frames.. just might make it better.. time will tell..

[Guest Bill Lumberg]

My agency selected glock for performance and reliability, and we've stayed with them for the same reasons. Cost was not a factor. They are willing to sell at at a very low profit margin though.

[Guest Bill Lumberg]

Accurate on all counts. A sister agency of our just switched from Sigmas to M&P's this year. Yikes.

For law enforcement duty use, their combination of accuracy, reliability, durability, low maintenance requirements, and so on, makes glock is top of the heap. That said, other manufacturers have continually come up with models that incorporate some of the reasons glock is number one, and are gaining market share.

If you don't know the difference between a glock and a Sigma, you need to handle and shoot both. One is excellent, one is a comically crappy copy that sucks to shoot, maintain, or have anyone know you own.

For sheer beauty and old school class, a good 1911 like a loaded springfield stainless or even a small-car-priced Nighthawk Custom cannot be beaten, even by Glock.