Interesting conversation with a LEO tonight

[Fallguy]

My apologies Dave....I took that to mean you were saying No (you shouldn't refuse the request to search) it would be ignorant.

LOL...no I've not been drinking....though I could use one but it's off to work soon so it'll have to wait for the weekend.

I probably read it with my presumption of your meaning. Not and excuse, just and explination....those are two different things of course.

[dralarms]

geeze...LEOs are just doing their job...what the hell does it matter, just hand them the permit at the same time you hand your license, you dont have to say a word, most will put 2 and 2 together and respect the fact that you told them...

If nothing else, at least respect the fact that they are human beings doing a job that you wont, that job is a very important one and a necessity...they are on our side.

if you are an ass, they will be an ass....just like if I was an ass to you, you would be one back...

True, I have met a few that were on a power trip, at least thet's the way they talk in normal conversation. Lucky for me I haven't had to deal with these while during the course of a traffic stop

Oh BS!!! If I decide to let an LEO search my car, no frickin' big deal. I gave up no rights. I made a choice. If I hand an LEO my permit with my license, who the heck cares? I gave up no rights. I made a choice. If he asks me what color panties I have on and I tell him, I gave up no rights. I made a choice. You guys go to extremes to prove you have rights sometime.

Wearing an HCP badge is legal too, just like being uncooperative or refusing to answer questions or never showing your permit unless it's requested, but it doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do.

Being an a**hole is legal too, but choosing to be an a**hole to a cop just because that's your right, is just asking for trouble. Being a jerk to a waitress is legal too, but it can also get funky things done to your food.

So go ahead, be an a** to a cop just cause it's legal. But don't bit*h when you get a 30 minute delay because you just had to prove you have rights.

While I agree with what you said, if he wants to act like a power mad fool then he will probally have his supervisor to deal with, because that's the first thing I'm gonna do is ask for the super.

I frinkin hate seeing a thread titled my encounter with a cop.

140 post of people comparing ball sacks......a one pair of panties

Crap I almost spit my coffee all over my computer. You really are going to have to warn me when you are going to do something like this.

[DaveTN]

My apologies Dave....I took that to mean you were saying No (you shouldn't refuse the request to search) it would be ignorant.

LOL...no I've not been drinking....though I could use one but it's off to work soon so it'll have to wait for the weekend.

I probably read it with my presumption of your meaning. Not and excuse, just and explination....those are two different things of course.

I meant that you have to make a decision based on the circumstances and the facts on that day, at that time, with that Officer, in that place..... and there is no pat answer.

[Fallguy]

I meant that you have to make a decision based on the circumstances and the facts on that day, at that time, with that Officer, in that place..... and there is no pat answer.

I agree with that....

[jughead]

and if you dont listen to them this will happen to you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOcAsMdEBb4

just so you know one of your county mounties was one of the officers.

[Guest canynracer]

Ok, I know for a fact that if a GOOD dispatcher is involved in the traffic stop and the officer ran your plate a short time before he instituted the stop. That GOOD dispatcher has already checked to see if the person that the registration comes back to has a valid DL and if that DL has a HCP attached to it that GOOD dispatcher will notify the officer immediately, that being said alot of officers already know prior to approaching your vehicle. Of course from watching the news lately I would assume that would leave nashville police officers in the dark. Or if you have been stopped previously by that department, the history of that stop is available in their CAD. i still would not offer any information that wasnt beneficial to ME.

Cant we all just get along?

Your DL and your HCP are NOT sync'd with your license plate.

if he runs your DL, he will see you have an HCP...not your plate

[Guest canynracer]

just so you know one of your county mounties was one of the officers.

????

huh???

[jughead]

????

huh???

post 41 glockguy

[Fallguy]

Ok, I know for a fact that if a GOOD dispatcher is involved in the traffic stop and the officer ran your plate a short time before he instituted the stop. That GOOD dispatcher has already checked to see if the person that the registration comes back to has a valid DL and if that DL has a HCP attached to it that GOOD dispatcher will notify the officer immediately, that being said alot of officers already know prior to approaching your vehicle. Of course from watching the news lately I would assume that would leave nashville police officers in the dark. Or if you have been stopped previously by that department, the history of that stop is available in their CAD. i still would not offer any information that wasnt beneficial to ME.

Cant we all just get along?

Your DL and your HCP are NOT sync'd with your license plate.

if he runs your DL, he will see you have an HCP...not your plate

I think he is saying that the dispatcher would take the info that comes back on checking the plate to see if that person has a DL/HCP, which can be done.

Of course this has been discussed in other threads....nothing says the registered owner is the one driving, even if it is nothing says that because he has a HCP he is armed at that time.

However when I was dispatching and went to the TIES (TN Information Enforcement System) class, they told us we aren't supposed to do anything without the officers request first...so while no one will really know I guess...not supposed to get ahead of the game.

[Guest canynracer]

post 41 glockguy

no, i got that...I meant who is one of our county mounties? that vid is in PA

[Guest canynracer]

I think he is saying that the dispatcher would take the info that comes back on checking the plate to see if that person has a DL/HCP, which can be done.

Of course this has been discussed in other threads....nothing says the registered owner is the one driving, even if it is nothing says that because he has a HCP he is armed at that time.

However when I was dispatching and went to the TIES (TN Information Enforcement System) class, they told us we aren't supposed to do anything without the officers request first...so while no one will really know I guess...not supposed to get ahead of the game.

Ahh...okey dokey...

[Guest Hooker]

Your DL and your HCP are NOT sync'd with your license plate.

if he runs your DL, he will see you have an HCP...not your plate

I didnt say your HCP and DL were synced with your plates. I said a GOOD dispatcher would go ahead and pull the DL of the name on the registration. If you are driving a vehicle registered in your name in Tennessee and you have a Tennessee DL the dispatcher can pull that name that is on the registration, granted it may pull up multiples of the same name but it doesnt take a rocket scientist match an address.

[Guest canynracer]

I didnt say your HCP and DL were synced with your plates. I said a GOOD dispatcher would go ahead and pull the DL of the name on the registration. If you are driving a vehicle registered in your name in Tennessee and you have a Tennessee DL the dispatcher can pull that name that is on the registration, granted it may pull up multiples of the same name but it doesnt take a rocket scientist match an address.

yeah, and fallguy explained it, read on...

[The Rabbi]

Wow…. Another us vs. them thread.

I couldn’t make it through all 15 pages but I have to say that there is some real bad advice being given here by some respected forum members that are dressing it up with legal language I don’t think they understand.

Keep in mind that in most cases YOU are going to determine how a traffic stop ends.

Having done hundreds of traffic stops and searched hundreds of cars can I tell you if you or your kid should refuse an Officers request to search? No… that would be ignorant. But I could give you plenty of examples where lives were impacted by making the wrong choice.

There is more to the law than reading the text on the internet and giving speeches about what the cops can and can’t do. These people will not be there to post bond for you when you are in jail. And if you are a parent you better think long and hard about impacting your kid’s future because of something you read on an internet forum.

Know what will happen with the choices you make. Be informed.

Gee that's heavy with meaning, Dave. Maybe you'd care to elaborate a little.

You think people should submit to voluntary searches of their person and vehicle? When you stopped people and asked to search, did you tell them that if they refused you would haul them to jail? This is even though you didnt have probable cause to search and therefore no grounds to detain, much less arrest?

[jughead]

no, i got that...I meant who is one of our county mounties? that vid is in PA

i didnt understand where the video applied to my post either. i did do as the officer said. they just keep telling me how to carry they aint read the rules. the state trooper lives in rhea county too. told him i would prove him wrong. got paper work in my truck he wouldnt return my calls. just so everyone understands my wife says i have a communication problem hate to admit it but she may be right. hope this clears it up.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

all i can say, like i have said here many times before. Letting them know your packing doesnt hurt a thing... you want them to be courtious to you... be courtious to them. You want a break... give them one and let them know your packing.

[Guest JavaGuy]

This has been quite an education. Yes, I'm new to this board. I'm new to the thought of carrying a pistol around. No, I haven't done the HCP class yet - it's a scheduling thing. I haven't had the time available when there was a class. Of course, it was largely a moot point since I just bought that first pistol about a week and a half ago... and no, I'm not carrying it.

Still, here I sit.. reading post after post. Some of you are LEOs or have been or are going to be... for the most part, you've been (from MY perspective) thoughtful, respectful and earnest in asserting that you just want to stay safe and go home to your family at the end of the shift.

On the other side, we have the folks who are basically saying that they aren't going to do anything to help that LEO out in a traffic stop because they don't have to.. and to do so (again, MY perspective and interpretation on what you're saying) is to start down a slippery slope of giving up your rights.

In the middle, we have a few thoughtful folks who are trying to find common ground and get both sides to recognize that it doesn't have to be some kind of I win-you lose situation. Obviously, if you blow through a stop sign at 30 MPH, act like an arrogant, insulting SOB to the LEO, etc., etc.. well, you're not going to have a good outcome. Likewise, if the LEO has an I'm the LEO, I can do no wrong.. and you, good citizen, are a perp destined for the big house no matter how slight your offense... another instance where the civilian is not going to have a good outcome.

I guess I'd like to remind you of a couple of things. I believe the old saying is, "a soft answer turneth away wrath." If both sides are respectful, you won't inject more trouble into a traffic stop. If one or both sides fail to show proper respect, the situation can escalate. No, I've been as guilty as anyone else of not always keeping my cool. I have a problem with people who almost run over me or others because they're too busy, too self-important, too self-absorbed, too whatever.. to actually stop at an intersection I have to walk across several times a day. I tend to yell at them as they whiz by... "Nice stop, jacka@@." Okay.. there's my lack of cool.

The other thing is that here I am... newbie.. and naturally, I'm reading everything. Especially the threads about HCP classes. What do I find there? Post after post where you guys.. the same guys arguing about these evil, twisted LEOs.. have recommended trainers who did a wonderful job training you or a family member. And the funny thing about this... "trainer XYZ is SWAT" "trainer ABC is deputy"

Obviously, when it benefits you, those LEOs are all right in your book.

One last point.. the LEOs have stated that they want to make it home alive at the end of their shift. Everyone here talks about carrying weapons in order to protect themselves and their family/friends.. i.e. you also want to make it home alive at the end of your shift. You want the same thing. And you're talking past each other.

I don't mean to step on toes, but in the end it boils down to that.. you all want to survive a brush with the bad guys and make it home. That LEO makes stop after stop and makes that walk to the car window time after time without knowing whether this is the person who's going to take a shot at him. I wouldn't want to walk that line of trying to hope for the best while being prepared for the worst. You carry because you don't want to encounter that same person, the one who wants to rob, rape, kill you, without being able to defend yourself. That sounds to me like you're on the same side instead of it being an us versus them thing. Hey, it's your choice. Sorry to be so long-winded, but just consider it as having my say all in one post instead of spreading it across five or six posts.

[Guest canynracer]

well said JavaGuy!!!

[Fallguy]

Yep...I think JavaGuy sums it up fairly well and as it seems all view points have been discussed many times...I think it is time for this thread to close.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Fallguy