Interesting conversation with a LEO tonight

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

An idiot he MAY be (personally, I thought he was funny as hell!), but he at least practices more than you.

[Guest eyebedam]

I was going to sue them because you are an idiot.

Dude Only reason I asked is from all the other post you have made lately either your are surrounded by drama or you just go out of your way to stir something up. Putting a video camera on your dash when you are pulled over so if the officer is rude you can have proof to tell on them? Ive never in my life known anyone to do some of the things you say youre doing or done.

[towerclimber37]

Sorry Glock, I couldn't help it. I know that kind of foolishness doesn't deserve a response...but I couldn't help myself. There's no telling what he'll type next, ya know?

He's his own soap opera...."as the stomach turns" or something.

[Fallguy]

Rabbi,

This time I think you are wrong, If they ask you then you HAVE to tell them, but not before.

AFAIK you do not have to answer ANY questions from a LEO other than your name and place of residence. You do not have to help them do their job if you don't choose to.

[Fallguy]

I am not sure but what does it hurt to offer up your carry permit? I mean really, what does it hurt? Give me a good reason to not tell them. If it makes the cop feel better about the entire thing it may well help me not get written.

Besides all that I took my class from a Knox County Sheriff and he said to speak up about it right off. I think i will follow his advice.

If you come across that 10% it could cause an issue out of a non-issue.

What if he was simply going to tell you that you rolled the stop sign and next time be more careful. But if for some reason he is one of the few that don't believe in a citizen's right to be armed, it could go down hill from there.

Granted the odds are fairly small and if someone wants to always volunteer their armed status to a LEO that is up to them I say. But I do believer there are times that it may not be advantageous to be so forward, so I don't have a problem with those that choose not to.

[Guest dotsun]

I always video tape my interactions at the drive thru window. That way I can complain to the manager when they screw me at the drive thru. That better be a big mac in that bag, Captain Pimples or you'll be meeting my attorney!

[Guest shadow12]

Dotson,

Leave the camera at home on Saturday, I plan on harassing you.

[Fallguy]

I always video tape my interactions at the drive thru window. That way I can complain to the manager when they screw me at the drive thru. That better be a big mac in that bag, Captain Pimples or you'll be meeting my attorney!

Actually that might could be a whole show on Spike or TruTV....lol

[Guest dotsun]

I'll have it and my tape recorder, better watch yourself bud.

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi,

This time I think you are wrong, If they ask you then you HAVE to tell them, but not before.

Nope. No law to that effect. If they ask for your DL,then OK. If they ask for your HCP, OK. If they ask if you have loaded weapons in the car, not a word.

It is the principle. People give up their civil rights every day in this country, largely because they dont know what they are. I am not accountable to an LEO for my actions, unless I violate the law.

[Fallguy]

Nope. No law to that effect. If they ask for your DL,then OK. If they ask for your HCP, OK. If they ask if you have loaded weapons in the car, not a word.

It is the principle. People give up their civil rights every day in this country, largely because they dont know what they are. I am not accountable to an LEO for my actions, unless I violate the law.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Nope. No law to that effect. If they ask for your DL,then OK. If they ask for your HCP, OK. If they ask if you have loaded weapons in the car, not a word.

It is the principle. People give up their civil rights every day in this country, largely because they dont know what they are. I am not accountable to an LEO for my actions, unless I violate the law.

i agree and my mouth will be shut for now on. now that i know i dont have to tell them i have a gun on me

[Punisher84]

Nope. No law to that effect. If they ask for your DL,then OK. If they ask for your HCP, OK. If they ask if you have loaded weapons in the car, not a word.

It is the principle. People give up their civil rights every day in this country, largely because they dont know what they are. I am not accountable to an LEO for my actions, unless I violate the law.

I'm gonna take it alot of you have never been in a LEO position? I agree about civil rights etc., but there is a difference between standing up for your rights and doing something dumb and causing a stir. I am one of the biggest pro 2A guys I know. I work at a shooting range/gun shop, am an NRA member, member of this forum since it's inception, and proud permit holder, but i tell you now, when i get on the streets in a few months and I ask someone if they are carrying and they tell me no or refuse to answer and I see a gun it's gonna be a different ballgame.

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over your permit and put the officer at ease. We deal with the worst society has to offer everyday and have to be ready for the worst. I don't know you. So guess what I'm gonna do when I see your gun without you telling me you have a legal right to carry it? I'm gonna respond in a manner that ensures my safety. I'm getting married in a few months and guess what? I'm going home every night. So if that means Rabbi gets cuffed up until i verify why he has that gun and where his permit is, well to bad. I'll apologize and maybe he'll understand that not all cops want to put a boot to his neck and piss on his rights. We just wanna go home at the end of the day.

[Tobashadow]

Ive only had one interaction with a LEO since i got my permit, but i used to ride back and forth to work with a buddy that has had one since the start of the tenn program.

We got blued one night on the way home and it went almost the same as my stop.

Kept hands where they could be seen. (didn't have to be on steering wheel)

Told the LEO i (or him at time) had a carry permit (making sure not to use the word Handgun or Gun so as not be heard wrong and cause panic) and told them i had a weapon in the car.

LEO asked where, which got a repliy on location. (didn't ask for it just wanted to know where)

took permit and license, did a quick run on them

Then he talked away calm as could be explaining why he had stop us and even wanted to know what the carry weapon was (wanted to see mine since he had never seen that model) then sent us on our way with nothing more then a simple don't do it again.

Rights are one thing. But as Punisher said above they just want to go home just like you would if you was on the other side of the stop. Ive known enough LEO's and heard the story's first hand to know that they wonder every single stop if they will live thru it.

It's that bad out there people, don't be blind to it, ask any LEO to tell you a bad stop story and watch the emotions almost go thru the roof while they recount it.

Being polite to the LEO on a personal stand point and putting him at perfect calm goes a long way and might make you a well wanted friend.

Remmber most LEO's know the training and background checks we have to go thru to get the permit.

And one thing to point out that any LEO or ex LEO here could probably confirm is that. If i told you i have a gun and a permit for it, the chance of me shooting you with it is probably far less then 0.001%.

Why would i tell you i have one legaly then try to shoot you with it?

Bad Guys dont tell the LEO's they have a gun they just use it.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Tobashadow

[jughead]

i just wish the leos out there would learn. they and the law tell me where to carry. in tn. the leo cannot legally tell me HOW to carry. 2 stops in over 10 years 3 different officers read me the riot act over how i carry my da 45.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

i just wish the leos out there would learn. they and the law tell me where to carry. in tn. the leo cannot legally tell me HOW to carry. 2 stops in over 10 years 3 different officers read me the riot act over how i carry my da 45.

and if you dont listen to them this will happen to you

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOcAsMdEBb4[/ame]

[Guest kwikrnu]

I'm gonna take it alot of you have never been in a LEO position? I agree about civil rights etc., but there is a difference between standing up for your rights and doing something dumb and causing a stir. I am one of the biggest pro 2A guys I know. I work at a shooting range/gun shop, am an NRA member, member of this forum since it's inception, and proud permit holder, but i tell you now, when i get on the streets in a few months and I ask someone if they are carrying and they tell me no or refuse to answer and I see a gun it's gonna be a different ballgame.

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over your permit and put the officer at ease. We deal with the worst society has to offer everyday and have to be ready for the worst. I don't know you. So guess what I'm gonna do when I see your gun without you telling me you have a legal right to carry it? I'm gonna respond in a manner that ensures my safety. I'm getting married in a few months and guess what? I'm going home every night. So if that means Rabbi gets cuffed up until i verify why he has that gun and where his permit is, well to bad. I'll apologize and maybe he'll understand that not all cops want to put a boot to his neck and piss on his rights. We just wanna go home at the end of the day.

It doesn't matter if we are leo's or not. The law is the law. If we are not required by law to say anything we do not have to.

You're going to make a great cop cuffing people when you see a gun.

I would handle it differently and first ask the person if they have a permit and if they would show it to me. I'm crazy like that though.

[Guest kwikrnu]

Voldemort, the more I read your posts the more I am convinced you are a troll or an idiot.

big difference between telling a patrol officer you have a HCP and letting a cop search your home. Good God, what planet do you come from? What rock have you crawled out from under?

Do me a favor, if by some chance you are coming to one of our gatherings please let me know. I do not want to be in the same county as you if I can help it.

Mods, Is there an ignore feature on this website?

I live in Williamson County so any trips to Franklin gun shop or any ranges in the area might be off limit to you.

I think you were one who liked doing FTF gun deals? Why not go to the gun shop and do a background check and fill out some forms for the gun? It is because you don't have to.

[The Rabbi]

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over your permit and put the officer at ease. We deal with the worst society has to offer everyday and have to be ready for the worst. I don't know you. So guess what I'm gonna do when I see your gun without you telling me you have a legal right to carry it? I'm gonna respond in a manner that ensures my safety. I'm getting married in a few months and guess what? I'm going home every night. So if that means Rabbi gets cuffed up until i verify why he has that gun and where his permit is, well to bad. I'll apologize and maybe he'll understand that not all cops want to put a boot to his neck and piss on his rights. We just wanna go home at the end of the day.

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over the permit. When asked. Don't ask me, I'm not doing it. Sorry. You see my gun and ask about a permit, fine. But my gun sitting in a holster concealed is no threat to you. DOnt treat it like one. Otherwise you end up like that ignoramus officer in Knoxville with a complaint on your record.

[Punisher84]

It doesn't matter if we are leo's or not. The law is the law. If we are not required by law to say anything we do not have to.

You're going to make a great cop cuffing people when you see a gun.

I would handle it differently and first ask the person if they have a permit and if they would show it to me. I'm crazy like that though.

Did you even read my post? Nevermind, I forgot...

[Punisher84]

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over the permit. When asked. Don't ask me, I'm not doing it. Sorry. You see my gun and ask about a permit, fine. But my gun sitting in a holster concealed is no threat to you. DOnt treat it like one. Otherwise you end up like that ignoramus officer in Knoxville with a complaint on your record.

You're missing the point. Think about it rationally. You say don't ask me I'm not doing it. Why? To prove a point? To feel macho and like you got one up on a LEO? If the officer doesn't ask and never sees it and the conversation goes no further, don't worry about it, but if they ask and you say no and you are carrying and they see it, they're going to react differently, because now you have lied about carrying a weapon.

The incident in Knoxville is not up for comparison, if you're referring to the Wal-mart open carry incident. That LEO was out of line and didn't know the law. I'll also tell you how departments view complaints from people that have egos and don't cooperate with officers with clean records. Ball up some tissue and throw it in the trash can. There went your complaint.

You're lumping every cop on the street together, which either means you think you're to cool for school, or you really hate cops. There are some great cops out there, just like there are stupid permit holders.

[towerclimber37]

It doesn't matter if we are leo's or not. The law is the law. If we are not required by law to say anything we do not have to.

You're going to make a great cop cuffing people when you see a gun.

I would handle it differently and first ask the person if they have a permit and if they would show it to me. I'm crazy like that though.

I agree with him though. if its safer for him to cuff someone that refuses to co-operate with him then fine! cuff them! when he's done, he'll uncuff ya.

This Us vs. Them attitude has got to change guys.

I agree that we're not required to help LEO's do their job, but I think that's where civil responsibility comes into it. at the end of the day, a police officer is only a guy with a badge and a gun. thats it. He's YOU with some extra equipment. He wants to get home after work, just like you.

If he's an *******, chances are, he'll get crap anyway.

[Punisher84]

I agree with him though. if its safer for him to cuff someone that refuses to co-operate with him then fine! cuff them! when he's done, he'll uncuff ya.

This Us vs. Them attitude has got to change guys.

I agree that we're not required to help LEO's do their job, but I think that's where civil responsibility comes into it. at the end of the day, a police officer is only a guy with a badge and a gun. thats it. He's YOU with some extra equipment. He wants to get home after work, just like you.

If he's an *******, chances are, he'll get crap anyway.

That's pretty much hitting the nail on the head. I think LEOs fall into 2 categories those who are and those who wish they were. To put it simply you wear the uniform, don't let the uniform wear you. LEOs that are always ready to bust heads and make big issues out of little things don't last long usually, but good cops who love the job and actually remember what protect and serve means just wanna go home at the end of shift.

The problem is when an unknown person intentionally or accidentally introduces an unverified weapon into a situation, the situation chages drastically.

[The Rabbi]

You're missing the point. Think about it rationally. You say don't ask me I'm not doing it. Why? To prove a point? To feel macho and like you got one up on a LEO? If the officer doesn't ask and never sees it and the conversation goes no further, don't worry about it, but if they ask and you say no and you are carrying and they see it, they're going to react differently, because now you have lied about carrying a weapon.

The incident in Knoxville is not up for comparison, if you're referring to the Wal-mart open carry incident. That LEO was out of line and didn't know the law. I'll also tell you how departments view complaints from people that have egos and don't cooperate with officers with clean records. Ball up some tissue and throw it in the trash can. There went your complaint.

You're lumping every cop on the street together, which either means you think you're to cool for school, or you really hate cops. There are some great cops out there, just like there are stupid permit holders.

We have this thing called "the law" in this country. I am obligated to obey it. So are you. The law calls for me to present my permit on request. That's it.

As for asking me, I never said I would answer no. I said I would not answer at all. I am under no obligation to answer that question. Nor am I under obligation to answer where I am going, why I am in a particular neighborhood, or why I have 5 unloaded long guns in my back seat. It's legal. It's none of anyone's business.

As for complaints, I have yet to see the department that didnt take citizen complaints seriously and investigate them.

As for great cops and stupid permit holders, there is no question. The vast majority of cops are decent guys doing their jobs. But all too often there is some guy out there who feels like the citizenry needs to feel the weight of his badge every now and then, and he likes inflicting his power on people he can. And that's what I object to.

[molonlabetn]

They won't know I'm armed unless they ask. And only then would the mention of firearms in our conversation be relevant... and the best response would simply be to hand over my HCP when the question is asked. There's no reason to volunteer information unless it benefits me.