Some amazing results, 223 reloads using surplus components

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have been bragging about the SMP 842 powder that David (DLM37015) sells. I have shot some of the smallest groups ever using this powder and 69 SMK's. It meters like a dream and is available for under $100 for 8 pounds.

Well for the last few days I have been reloading an SS109 equal. I loaded until I reached the velocity I was looking for which in this case was ~3,070 fps out of a 16" barrel. I am using factory primed LC brass, pulled 62 grain SS109 bullets and the SMP 842 powder. I used a Lee [i know they suck ] to drop the powder. I did crimp the bullets in place which I normally do not do for my regular loads.

Well I have loaded enough to last me a while so I grabbed a random sample to test fire across the chronograph again. This time I was testing for consistency.

Well here are the results:

High: 3073

Low: 3069

Avg: 3071

ES: 3.12

SD: 2.00

Needless to say I am floored with the results. Surplus powder, surplus pulled bullets, surplus brass and the powder metered using the cheapest powder measure on the market.

And again I must say I am absolutely amazed at the consistency of these loads. Just thought I would pass it on to anyone looking for a great, ECONOMICAL powder. David sold all the components to me.

Dolomite

[atlas3025]

How many grains of powder in that load?

[R_Bert]

and how does the load data compare with the CFE223 data?

BTW, outstanding #'s! That SD is *impressive*

Edited May 11, 2012 by R_Bert

[mikegideon]

The Lee measure is supposed to be about as good as it gets for extruded powders. Looks like you're thumpin' it just right too. That's more consistent than what I got with 77 grain SMK's using a ChargeMaster. I was using BR primers too.

[Dolomite_supafly]

and how does the load data compare with the CFE223 data?

BTW, outstanding #'s! That SD is *impressive*

Seems about right in a 223 case. I am getting numbers that are about 20fps-30fps off the advertised numbers. But I will say that their numbers are probably from longer barrels than mine. For 223 this is the best powder I have ever used.

That particular load was 25.8 grains of SMP 842 but each weapon and loading technique is different so work up to that load. And I worked up from the minimum because this is surplus powder.

Dolomite

[RichardS]

Interesting, I've been wondering what others are seeing with the surplus 842. My results were way off the CFE 223 data, so much off that I wonder if my jug was mislabeled.

Data below using 77g Noslers and CCI Military Small Rifle primers in a 16" barrel:

21.0g 2477ft/s

21.5g 2569 ft/s

22.0g 2650 ft/s blew out a couple of primers started seeing case flow into ejector hole

22.5g only fired a few, every primer blew out and pronounced case flow into ejector hole

The CFE 223 data for a 77g Sierra is 22.5 starting load and 24.3 max with velocity range of 2627-2811 from a 24" barrel. Adjusting for barrel length looks like I was around max pressures below the recommended starting load.

I loaded the same bullets/primers using surplus 844 the same day and testing came out pretty much as the H335 data predicted. So I do not think it is a problem with my powder measure or technique, I just think something is odd with my jug of 842.

[R_Bert]

Interesting, I've been wondering what others are seeing with the surplus 842. My results were way off the CFE 223 data, so much off that I wonder if my jug was mislabeled.

Data below using 77g Noslers and CCI Military Small Rifle primers in a 16" barrel:

21.0g 2477ft/s

21.5g 2569 ft/s

22.0g 2650 ft/s blew out a couple of primers started seeing case flow into ejector hole

22.5g only fired a few, every primer blew out and pronounced case flow into ejector hole

The CFE 223 data for a 77g Sierra is 22.5 starting load and 24.3 max with velocity range of 2627-2811 from a 24" barrel. Adjusting for barrel length looks like I was around max pressures below the recommended starting load.

I loaded the same bullets/primers using surplus 844 the same day and testing came out pretty much as the H335 data predicted. So I do not think it is a problem with my powder measure or technique, I just think something is odd with my jug of 842.

This is one reason I am interested.

I have had a similar experience with my .204 Ruger loads in 842, where my data is pretty much exactly matching H322 (for .204R), not CFE223. I am still playing with it, but have learned to go 15%-25% below CFE223 so far.

[Guest TNdad]

I'm in the middle of working up a CFE223 load for my RRA 20" 1:9 Wylde chamber AR-15 using once fired LC brass and Hornady 68gr HPBT. I started with 5 hand weighed loads going .3 from 23.5 to 24.7 basing the loads off of Hodgdon's loading of the 69gr HPBT, lowering the powder slightly to start. Here's the results 23.5 2460 av fps 23.8 2545 24.1 2600 24.4 2615 24.7 2617 The highest batch had the best 5 group of 3/8" center to center @100yd. The CFE data is from a 24" 1:12 but I expected higher velocities so I went back and made 3 more batches from 25 to 25.6. 25.0 2692 25.3 2691 25.6 2760 I threw out the accuracy as the wind was kicking up something fierce and my chrono reader help could make it so I was breaking cheek weld every shot to write down the readings. I'll make another batch and try it with my helper then report back. If the CFE data says 69gr with 26gr powder goes 3010, shouldn't a 68g with 25.6 go a lot more than 2700?

[dlm37015]

when i first got the 842 powder the supplier told me to use cfe223 data .he was wrong i have been useing cfe223 data - 20% and workingh up from there it has been a good powder for me at those load rates

[Dolomite_supafly]

DO NOT USE CFE223 DATA.

 

Start 20% less than minimum for a given bullet.

 

I will say that the same loads as yours were popping primers out of the case in my AR. I will say that chacing max velocity never results in max accuracy. As a matter of fact my most accurate load using a 69 SMK out of my 16" AR only chronogrpahs at 2,350 fps. The same load in a 26" barrel turns in 2,950 fps and turns in groups uner .3" CTC at 100 yards.

 

SMP842 is an amazing powder but it is a lot faster than CFE223. You need to work up accordingly and watch for signs of pressure.

 

Dolomite

[timthetoolman]

I found it very hot too.  I worked up to 3100 fps and landed at 24.6 gr off the batch of 842 I got from David.  Going both up and down in .2gr increments the group also opened up.  I am using Hornady 55gr FMJ's however.  Ive also used the 842 in my 22-250 with great results, and I like that the brass doesnt seem near as hot after firing. 

[Guest TNdad]

DO NOT USE CFE223 DATA.
 
Start 20% less than minimum for a given bullet.
 
I will say that the same loads as yours were popping primers out of the case in my AR. I will say that chacing max velocity never results in max accuracy. As a matter of fact my most accurate load using a 69 SMK out of my 16" AR only chronogrpahs at 2,350 fps. The same load in a 26" barrel turns in 2,950 fps and turns in groups uner .3" CTC at 100 yards.
 
SMP842 is an amazing powder but it is a lot faster than CFE223. You need to work up accordingly and watch for signs of pressure.
 
Dolomite

What's your distance for accuracy, 100 yds? How would that low-ish vel effect the round out at 400 yds? That's 600 fps slower than match factory ammo.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I can assure you there is not a factory 223 load with a 69 grain bullet that is 2,950 out of a 16" barrel. The velocity numbers they list are out of 30"+ test barrels. I have chronographed a bunch of factory ammo and it is rare they are within 10% of the listed velocity out of a "real" gun.

 

From my previous post:

 .3" CTC at 100 yards.

 

As long as you know your velocity and your zero you have zero problems with drop. I shoot subsonic 22's out to 300 yards and make hits on 12" steel 9 out of 10 times, at 200 yards hits are a certainty. The reason is I know what the velocity is and what my zero is. Then I just dial it on the turrets. I have even shot the 60 grain SSS rimfire rounds at 200 yards and made hits. It is all about knowing your velocity and your zero.