New video of Kelly Thomas being beat to Death.

[JG55]

This brand new video of Fullerton PO's beating to death a homeless schizoprenic man in fullerton Ca. The beating starts at 15:20 mark, but before you can see the PO threatening Thomas with his fists and that thomas is having a hard time following po's orders. Listen as he cries for help and continuously sayes he can't breath. Watch the whole thing if you have time...

Edited May 9, 2012 by JG55

[JG55]

Kelly Thomas' Cause Of Death Revealed During Testimony

By AMY TAXIN 05/08/12 07:27 PM ET

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SANTA ANA, Calif. — A trauma surgeon said Tuesday that continuous compression of a California homeless man's chest during a confrontation with police officers caused breathing problems that led to his death.

The testimony by Dr. Michael Lekawa came during a hearing in response to intense questioning by attorneys for two Fullerton police officers charged with killing 37-year-old Kelly Thomas during an investigation of a reported car burglary at a transit hub last July.

Lekawa noted that surveillance video and audio recordings of the incident showed that Thomas' voice changed from initial shouts of "I can't breathe" to long, drawn-out moans before he stopped talking altogether.

Lekawa, chief of trauma surgery at University of California, Irvine Medical Center – where Thomas was taken after the confrontation – said he believes the incident caused Thomas' respiratory problems, which deprived his brain of oxygen.

"The ongoing compression of his chest ultimately led him to have a respiratory arrest," Lekawa said during the hearing to determine whether sufficient evidence exists for the officers to stand trial.

Prosecutors contend that Officer Manuel Ramos punched Thomas in the ribs, tackled him and lay on him to pin him down. They say Cpl. Jay Cicinelli used a Taser four times on Thomas as he screamed in pain and also hit him in the face eight times with the Taser.

Thomas lost consciousness and was taken to a hospital. He was taken off life support and died five days later.

Ramos, a 10-year-veteran of the Fullerton Police Department, is charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. Cicinelli, who has worked in Fullerton since 1999, is charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive force. Both have pleaded not guilty.

The officers' attorneys grilled Lekawa over whether sufficient compression took place during the confrontation to cause respiratory arrest and whether cardiac arrest – triggered by extreme exertion – might have deprived Thomas' brain of oxygen.

Defense attorney Michael Schwartz, who represents Cicinelli, also asked whether performing CPR – as medics did when Thomas' heart rate stopped that night – for a long period of time might cause the problems that led to Thomas' death.

Lekawa said he supposed CPR compressions could lead to some of the conditions. But earlier he testified that he believed Thomas' problems began earlier, when the video showed he was no longer responsive.

The questioning came in the second day of the hearing in a Santa Ana courtroom and was marked by a repeated showing of clips of the grainy surveillance video of the confrontation, which was paired with audio from digital recorders worn by some of the officers who were present.

The video, screened in public for the first time, shows Ramos and another officer swing their batons at a shirtless Thomas and pin him to the ground as he pleads with them to stop. It later shows Thomas being hit repeatedly with a Taser while he screamed.

"We ran out of options so I got the end of my Taser and I probably ... I just start smashing his face to hell," Cicinelli commented to fellow officers on the 33-minute surveillance tape, according to a transcript provided by prosecutors because parts of the recording were muffled. "He was on something. Cause the three of us couldn't even control him."

Prosecutors say the July 5 beating began after two officers responded to reports that a homeless person was looking in cars and rattling door handles at the Fullerton transit hub, where numerous buses come and go and commuters park their cars.

Six Fullerton officers were involved in the conflict but only two were criminally charged.

Thomas' father Ron Thomas said the video shows there was no struggle while his son was on the ground being kneed by officers who huddled over him. He also voiced frustration that defense attorneys were challenging the medics in what he said was an effort to deflect responsibility from the officers.

The incident led to an ongoing FBI investigation to determine if Thomas' civil rights were violated, an internal probe by the city, protests by residents and an effort to recall three Fullerton councilmembers that is slated for next month's ballot.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JG55

[Guest 6.8 AR]

A bit on the excessive force side, I'd say. If he was in the act of beating someone or damaging

someone's property, maybe not, but those "officers" took things a bit too far.

Did I "cop bash"?

I know too many good cops, and I know they wouldn't condone this sort of activity.

[JG55]

I know too many good cops, and I know they wouldn't condone this sort of activity.

I do to but this is disgusting and such an excessive use of force.. I don't see how this beating is justified in any manner.......

[JG55]

Got Scratches Tended To By Paramedic As Kelly Thomas Lay Dying in the Street

Posted by Joe Sipowicz in Behind Closed Doors, Chronic Failure, Dick Jones, Don Bankhead, Pat McPension, Something Wicked This Way Comes, The Crime Beat, The Culture of Corruption, The Fullerton Recall, Union Goons on May 7, 2012

One of the most shocking things to emerge from the Preliminary Trial of Manny Ramos and Jay Cicinelli for the killing of Kelly Thomas are the statements made by Fullerton Fire Department personnel that the cops received attention to their miscellaneous scrapes as Thomas, whose face had just been bashed in, and who was suffocating in his own blood, lay ignored nearby.

For pure callousness, incomprehensible inhumanity, and well, evil, it’s pretty hard to beat this story. The images of minor scratches sustained by the Fullerton cops is comical, especially given the fact that were sustained committing a crime; juxtaposed to the image of Kelly Thomas’s shattered face they present ample evidence about the nature of the beat down delivered to the homeless man.

Manny's badge of honor awaits a band aid.

Hilariously, Manny Ramos was quoted as saying he’d been in “the fight of my life.†Given that he was seventy pounds overweight, notoriously lazy and obviously a coward, this may actually be a true statement. Certainly it will provide a good headline for Lou Ponsi. But Ramos’ injury received a bandaid and off he went. Kelly Thomas is dead. He was dying on the pavement, alone and unattended, as the cops that killed him got first aid.

And that is truly sickening.

[daddyo]

Every one of those sorry excuses for cops should be tried, convicted, and sent to prison for a long, long time.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I do to but this is disgusting and such an excessive use of force.. I don't see how this beating is justified in any manner.......

I quite agree.

[JG55]

Published: May 9, 2012 Updated: 12:49 p.m.

Legal experts: Kelly Thomas video doesn't tell whole story

Slideshow: The death of Kelly Thomas in photos

Complete coverage of the death of Kelly Thomas

• SLIDE SHOW:
  Legal experts: Kelly Thomas video doesn't tell whole story
  7 Photos »
  
  VIDEO:
  Shocking Kelly Thomas Confrontation surveillance video (8 min.)
  

By GREG HARDESTY / THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

SANTA ANA – The grainy video is difficult to watch – and, say most who've seen it, even more difficult to listen to.

As the public continues to digest the disturbing 33-minute clip of Kelly Thomas' fatal confrontation with Fullerton police last summer, legal experts caution that the footage doesn't tell the entire story, and that the culpability of two officers charged in the transient's death is something that will need to be decided by a jury.

A security camera captured much of the altercation between Fullerton police officers and Kelly Thomas at the Fullerton bus depot. It was shown at the preliminary hearing in Santa Ana Monday.

JOSHUA SUDOCK, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

MORE PHOTOS »

The harrowing footage from July 5, 2011 includes Thomas, a 37-year-old schizophrenic, repeatedly apologizing to police as they try to subdue him, yelling at them that he can't breathe, and wailing for his father to help him.

Click here to watch the 8 minute edited version of the Kelly Thomas confrontation video.

But whether the black-and-white video helps support a charge of second-degree murder against Officer Manuel Anthony Ramos is not as evident as the solid visceral punch delivered by the video, interviews with law professors and current and former defense attorneys suggest.

"This is going to be a tough case," said Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. "I don't think it's contradictory to charge one officer with murder and one with involuntary manslaughter....the attitudes of the officers – what they said before and after the incident -- are also important.

"The difference between murder vs. manslaughter is intent, and the question here is whether the officers realized the risk of their behavior. I think that will be the hardest thing to prove: Did the officers realize the seriousness of the risk involved?"

Evidence in the high-profile, emotionally charged case was tested at a preliminary hearing in Santa Ana this week. The hearing ended Wednesday after three days of testimony that included the release Monday of the explosive video --- the centerpiece of District Attorney Tony Rackauckas' case against the two officers.

Among the indelible images on the surveillance video are Ramos slowly swinging his baton as he approaches a sitting Thomas in the first frames, and the glistening pool of blood seen on the pavement near the end of the footage after paramedics whisk Thomas away.

In addition to the murder charge, Ramos, 38, has been charged with involuntary manslaughter. Cpl. Jay Patrick Cicinelli has been charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive force under color of authority.

Levenson and other legal experts noted that the video doesn't capture the entire confrontation, and they said that although the footage shows Thomas getting struck by a baton and, later, stunned and then hit repeatedly in the face with a plastic gun by Cicinelli, the footage doesn't contain much visual evidence of a "classic beating."

Thomas died five days after the confrontation when his family took him off life support. The cause of death, according to a pathologist who testified Tuesday, was a lack of oxygen caused by having his chest compressed, as well as blood in his lungs from facial fractures and other injuries.

Another law professor said officers appear in the video to show a "consistent disregard" for Thomas as he complains about not being able to breathe while they continue to subdue him in a "dog pile-like" fashion.

"He (Thomas) was fearing for his life," said Robert Pugsley, a professor at Southwestern Law School in Los Angeles.

Pugsley questioned, however, whether prosecutors can make the second-degree murder charge against Ramos stick. Rackauckas alleges that Ramos initiated the encounter.

"I see it more likely that he (Ramos) might be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter," Pugsley said.

A murder conviction against Ramos, who is free on $1 million bail, would make him eligible for a possible prison sentence of 15 years to life. Cicinelli, who is free on $25,000 bail, faces four years in prison if convicted.

Prosecutors are pursing the murder charge against Ramos under the theory that Thomas died as a result of an intentional act, that his death resulted as a natural consequence of an act that was dangerous to human life, and that Ramos deliberately acted with a conscious disregard of human life.

To secure a second-degree murder conviction, Rackauckas doesn't need to prove that Ramos intended to kill Thomas, but rather that his life-threatening acts were intentional --- much like a reckless driver who ends up killing someone after deciding to speed in and out of traffic, Pugsley said.

Based only on evidence seen in the video, Pugsley said that a second-degree murder charge is perfectly appropriate, but it may be easier to convince a jury that Ramos and Cicinelli should have known, but didn't know, that their actions created a substantial risk of death – the bar that needs to be met for an involuntary manslaughter conviction.

Legal experts who viewed the video raised the issue of the officers using their weight on Thomas to subdue him.

Since the primary cause of death was suffocation, a legal argument could be made, they said, that any officer found to have put their weight on Thomas in such a way as to limit his breathing could be prosecuted for second-degree murder under the theory that the officer consciously showed disregard for a life-threatening act.

They said that an argument can be made that potentially lethal force was applied, that the officers knew it was potentially lethal, and that they kept applying it anyway.

What's clear from the video is that what began as a routine police interrogation escalated, raising the key question of whether force used by the officers was justified, legal experts said.

"At one point, he clearly just lost his cool," Levenson said of Ramos. "It's going to be really important what preceded the video, and what he (Ramos) did afterward."

Said Pugsley: "(Rackauckas) will try to paint a picture of a hapless, helpless homeless man who in his own way was trying to cooperate with the very particular orders of the officers, but who either wouldn't or couldn't comply.

"It appears to be that the officers weren't handling this situation in a cool fashion. They were pugnacious about it."

About 25 minutes into the video, Sgt. Kevin Craig asks Kelly Thomas a question.

"Hey," he says to Thomas, who is collapsed beside a pool of blood. "What's your name? What is your name?"

Sirens blare in the background.

"Hey what's your name?" Craig says again. "Hey what is your name?"

Thomas doesn't respond.

Soon, he's on his way to UCI Medical Center, where five days later he dies and, soon after that, the name Kelly Thomas is everywhere.

Register Staff Writers Larry Welborn and Lou Ponsi contributed to this story.

Contact the writer: 714-704-3764 or ghardesty@ocregister.com

Edited May 9, 2012 by JG55

[JG55]

The 2 PO's are ordered to stand trial. Maybe there will eventually be justice!

[bubbiesdad]

Every one of those sorry excuses for cops should be tried, convicted, and sent to prison for a long, long time.

And be put in general population.

[hornett22]

they always say a handful of bad cops make the rest of them look bad. I say it's the other way around.

[Reservoir Dog]

they always say a handful of bad cops make the rest of them look bad. I say it's the other way around.

You would be wrong. However, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how ignorant it is.

[JG55]

Besides the excessive force and loss of life which should of never happen, the more ominious part of this story is that a as a citizen we expect a certain amount of safety, security and professionalism when we interact with Law enforcement. If we begin to question our safetyand scurity alonf with their professionalism when stopped or questioned by a Law Enforcement Officer, then the system breaks down which could lead to more problems.

[Guest CCI]

I can't express what I think of Manuel Anthony Ramos and Jay Patrick Cicinelli!

[monkeylizard]

If we begin to question our safetyand scurity alonf with their professionalism when stopped or questioned by a Law Enforcement Officer, then the system breaks down which could lead to more problems.

This. Add in the local (Nashville) recent news reports about officers in Dickson county and in Monterey and they start to overshadow the postive encounters I've had with LEOs. What might I say or do quite innocently in the presence of an officer that would land me a trip to jail or worse? Is the cop at the table next to me at Subway one of the majority good guys, or one of these that end up in the news?

Dickson

http://www.wsmv.com/...o-shows-beating

Monterey

http://www.newschann...for-profit-case

Edited May 13, 2012 by monkeylizard

[SonnyCrockett]

Its a sad deal,cops were certainly barbaric in this case - I dont see the need for excessive force unless

a person is armed or violent and in this case the guy was just being stupid or later to find out he was mental

[Dolomite_supafly]

The 2 PO's are ordered to stand trial. Maybe there will eventually be justice!

Not in our jails.

We no longer have a justice system, just a legal system. And it is this legal system that is going to protect these animals while they are in jail.

I would like it if they are tried, convicted and sentenced to a very long time in jail. I would love it if these animals were placed in general population to endure that torture. But the truth is they are going to be protected for their time in jail.

I have always loved the eye for an eye concept when it comes to crimes where someone is intentionally injured by another. In this case the sentence should be a slow methodical beating until they succomb to their wounds. It would send a message to those would be criminals that you will be getting more than just a comfy jail cell, conjugal visits and a free education.

They are likely going to plea and get a reduced sentence. The DA is going to accept the plea to keep their conviction rates high for their next election. I hate plea agreements that reduce sentences and pleas should not count towards a conviction rate of a DA's office.

What needs to happen is if the person is convicted by a trial they are given the max under the law with no good time or any of the other BS feel good programs in the prisons. What should happen is if a person wants to plea they should not know what their sentence will be. That will be determined by a jury or a judge if the criminal waives that right. After they have pleaded guilty then the sentence is handed down by their peers. And it can range from nothing to the max but most importantly the criminal does not know what he will serve before he/her pleas out.

And once they are convicted and sent to prison they should not be comfortable. They should be provided with food, shelter, safety and medical care. They have no consitutional right to a television. They should have no right to conjugal visits so they can produce another child I am going to have to support. No radios, drawing supplies or any commissary. And the food should meet nutrition requirements, not taste requirements. Do like what has been done with those who throw food. Blend the entire meal together into a slurry then add flour and bake like a giant bisquit. I am talking about the meats, veggies, desserts, fruits and drinks all into a single bisquit. It works well and meets the nutritional requirements. Inmates should not eat and live better than our soldiers serving overseas.

Dolomite

[JG55]

Kelly Thomas was schizophrenic. If you want to know what being a schizonphrenic is like , due this experiment. Try to tell a story to a person in a cogent logical manner while having a third and fourth person standing on each side of you, shouting in you ear about anything.. it's very hard to concentrate. That's what it is like which also makes it hard to follow and understand directions.

[JG55]

"They are likely going to plea and get a reduced sentence. The DA is going to accept the plea to keep their conviction rates high for their next election. I hate plea agreements that reduce sentences and pleas should not count towards a conviction rate of a DA's office."

I hope you are wrong on this, but I suspect you will be proven right.. There has been an uproar in Fullerton, CA about this case so perhaps the DA will be more afraid of the backlash if he plea deals it down to a lesser offense. It is up to the People to to demand justice and perhaps make an example out of this case that abusive, excessive force will not be tolerated.... for any reason...

[Dolomite_supafly]

In every single picture I can find of Officer Ramos he has a "how dare you" or a "I am above this" look on his face.

And although we would love to hate the officers for what they did it is not entirely their fault. Their actions are the result of their continued training, their peers, their supervisors as well as their administration. They have allowed other incidents to go unpunished which only empowers officers like these. It is a rare that an officer goes from being an outstanding officer to a crappy officer in one step, it happens gradually in front of their peers and supervisors.

Dolomite

[JG55]

From LA NOW

"

The case has been particularly emotional for Ron Thomas, who has been forced to watch the video of his son's beating and listen to the heartbreaking pleas. At one point, Kelly Thomas cries out, "Dad, they are killing me!"

In an earlier interview, Ron Thomas said the hardest part of the video and audio "is the sounds of my son calling out."

Rackauckas presented the case himself, playing a dramatic, never-before-seen video that showed a shirtless Thomas being pummeled and held down by Fullerton police officers.

Rackauckas said Ramos "turned a routine encounter into a brutal beating death" while Cicinelli "assisted in the killing of Kelly Thomas" by "smashing his face" with the butt of a Taser stun gun and applying his own weight on Thomas' torso.

A coroner's pathologist said Thomas died of chest compression and blood from his facial wounds."

Edited May 13, 2012 by JG55

[hornett22]

You would be wrong. However, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how ignorant it is.

Just going on life experiences. I have known may cops in many different cities,town,and states. 90% at least have serious moral and ethical issues. Not to mention their hypocrisy.

Don't get me wrong,this does not make me happy. Very sad actually. I remember having A LOT of respect for LE when I was growing up. So much that I wanted to be an officer for many years. Unfortunately adulthood experiences have changed that. I still would love to be a LEO in a small town but not in any town or city of any size.

Edited May 14, 2012 by hornett22