Rob Pincus on subcompact 1911s

[mikegideon]

I shot mine for the first time yesterday, and it was a major jamfest. I also shot my new G36, and it was flawless. Gunsmith time for the 1911.

[Lumber_Jack]

I shot mine for the first time yesterday, and it was a major jamfest. I also shot my new G36, and it was flawless. Gunsmith time for the 1911.

Interesting. Keep us posted on fixes and how well you can get it to run.

[mikegideon]

Interesting. Keep us posted on fixes and how well you can get it to run.

I will. I have help. Like I have said all along, these things are known to be finicky. There are folks out there that get flawless performance out of them. I just wanna be one of those guys. The G36 chewed thru everything, including a bunch of hand loads. But, the 1911 was much nicer to shoot.

I have some parts on the way. Once the gun gets in competent hands, I'm pretty confident it will run just fine.

[Hardscrabble]

Since I bad-mouthed my Kahr CM9 on this thread, I thought it fair that I updated:

Since it came back from the factory I have fired 350 rounds through it (mixed from Win 115gr Walmart loads to Fed 124gr Hydroshocks). There were no problems. Maybe another couple hundred through it without a problem, and I'll keep it around.

[Cherokee Slim]

I've carried and shot the New Agent in .45 for several years now. With an unknown number of rounds through it, but well past 1000, it has never jammed or malfunctioned in any way. Your mileage may vary but I've been happy with mine and seldom even take the G36 out of the safe anymore.

Cherokee Slim

[mikegideon]

The G36 slaps you around pretty good. I'll probaby carry it quite a bit because of weight, but will shoot the 1911 more once it's working.

[ExMachina]

I'm not Rob Pincus, but even I have enough experience to have seen many 3" 1911s that would have been more use to their owners had they been single shot pistols. They're a terrible idea. Why do they exist? Well, they look so darn cool that Kimber and Springfield and Kimber (did I mention them already?) know that they can sell a lot of them, and most shooters won't bother to complain becasue most shooters don't...uh...shoot. It's simply the result of cynical marketing that's good for the company and no one else.

Every 1911 smith on the planet will tell you that when you take JMB's pistol to a barrel length south of 4" the design begins to fail...and that's because the design of the 1911 was for a 5" barrel. Nobody says you can't design a reliable 45ACP with a 2-inch barrel, just don't do it with an auto loader that was originally designed as a cavalry pistol.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ExMachina

[tnhawk]

I'm not Rob Pincus, but even I have enough experience to have seen many 3" 1911s that would have been more use to their owners had they been single shot pistols. They're a terrible idea. Why do they exist?.....Every 1911 smith on the planet will tell you that when you take JMB's pistol to a barrel length south of 4" the design begins to fail...and that's because the design of the 1911 was for a 5" barrel. Nobody says you can't design a reliable 45ACP with a 2-inch barrel, just don't do it with an auto loader that was originally designed as a cavalry pistol.

I'll continue to carry one of several 3" 1911 pistols I own as long as my practice with them, proves them to be reliable. None has failed during my use, or I wouldn't continue to depend on them.

[mikegideon]

I'll continue to carry one of several 3" 1911 pistols I own as long as my practice with them, proves them to be reliable. None has failed during my use, or I wouldn't continue to depend on them.

There are plenty of testimonies out there for reliable 3" guns. Mine doesn't work right now, but it will. Once it proves itself to be reliable, I won't hesistate to carry it.

[mikegideon]

Fixin' to carry mine to the hospital. Won't be long now...

[hornett22]

On my second Colt defender. I would put either of them up against a 5" for reliabilty and probably accuracy as well. They feel great shooting as well.

I learned long ago not to get to wrapped up in writers opinions. Most have to write about something to sell advertising and i have found plenty of untruths in their writngs.

[mikegideon]

Picked my gun up from the hospital yesterday. Gonna run over to the range and see if I can make it choke. It's already been test fired, just not a lot of rounds.

[RichardR]

I owned a Colt Officers ACP that I was pretty fond of, carried it for about 6 years before switching over to carrying j-frames, it wasn't 100% reliable, but I only had about 3 short-strokes in the 1000 or so rds that I fired through it.

[mikegideon]

Mine was short stroking with an Officer weight spring. It wound up with a 18.5 pound spring, and may need to go a little lighter.

[mikegideon]

OK, I finally made it to the range and ran the gun a little. Tim Calhoun (1911 Yoda) was the doctor on this thing. I ran 214 rounds (230 gr hand loads) through it about as fast as the RSO's would let me, and had 1 malfunction. That one was fairly late in the session, maybe somewhere in the last 50 rounds.

I called Tim after I got back, and we both suspect that it was probably a limp wrist event. The gun ran real well other than that. Only time will tell if it was operator error, or we need to come off the recoil spring another pound or two. I didn't walk away feeling like it will be anything but reliable in the end.

[Guest klwehunt]

Mr.Pincus is not a writer he is very respected in the self defence/gun community that is his profesion so to not listen to his opinion would be a mistake that said his classes fire manny many rounds,the more they fire the dirtier they get.I for one think that a 1911 in any barrel length want be as dependable dirty as a glock,xm,m&p etc. my carry gun is a kahr pm 45,shoots well,easy to carry,and in three years have not had a failure but i don't carry it after i have fired 200 rounds through it without cleaning.Carried a kimber ultra carry for 3 or 4 years never had a problem with it either,point is for the average guy to carry every day your choice needs to be comfortable to carry (so you don't leave it at home) and have faith in it and practice enough to be very proficient with it.

[hornett22]

But it's his opinion as you stated. I'll take it with a grain of salt. He's selling something so I'm not believing everything he says. Especially when I know it's not true from my personal experiences.

[mikegideon]

But it's his opinion as you stated. I'll take it with a grain of salt. He's selling something so I'm not believing everything he says. Especially when I know it's not true from my personal experiences.

I don't doubt his opinion. Mine was horrible out of the box. It took a top notch 1911 mechanic to get it running, and may still need a little tweak. Won't know until I get the round count up. My G36, which is the same basic form factor, is probably a more reliable design.

Edited June 3, 2012 by mikegideon

[Steelharp]

But it's his opinion as you stated. I'll take it with a grain of salt. He's selling something so I'm not believing everything he says. Especially when I know it's not true from my personal experiences.

Don't confuse the luck of your personal experience with one or two examples of the platform over someone's collective experience with 100's of examples, and deem it "not true." Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

[mikegideon]

Don't confuse the luck of your personal experience with one or two examples of the platform over someone's collective experience with 100's of examples, and deem it "not true." Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

You have a design that really needs fine tuning, and you have companies trying to mass produce them. Mine went from a complete turd to something reliable. The difference came with hand tuning the gun. It's like saying steel guitars don't work. They're not junk, they're just harder to work than most instruments. You know what I'm talkin' about . I've heard horrible things. Lots of folks just can't figure them out.

[Steelharp]

And I've played horrible things...

[mikegideon]

But, you've heard MUCH worse.

[Will H]

I still like my test. Take your handgun to the range and run 400 rounds of decent ammo thru it as fast as you can. If it does this without ANY problems it's prolly pretty good. Then again, I am no expert or professional pistolero.

[RichardR]

You have a design that really needs fine tuning, and you have companies trying to mass produce them. Mine went from a complete turd to something reliable. The difference came with hand tuning the gun. It's like saying steel guitars don't work. They're not junk, they're just harder to work than most instruments. You know what I'm talkin' about . I've heard horrible things. Lots of folks just can't figure them out.

Well said Mike, those are my thoughts on this topic as well.

Compact 1911's are finicky, no doubt about that, not only with what sorts of ammunition that they like but also with regards to a shooters technique, (can't be lazy or sloppy w/regards to how you shoot them).

[tnhawk]

I've found each of my 1911 pistols to be dependable with my ammo, shooting, and cleaning techniques. While I listen to others opinions, I'll trust my experiences. I'll be glad to relieve anyone of the burden of their compact 1911.