New to reloading 45 acp

[Jonnin]

test 10 or so rounds the first time. If it seems to be what you want, you can make more, but if it is horrible, you do not have to pull apart or discard or shoot it out, wasting time and components.

[BigK]

test 10 or so rounds the first time. If it seems to be what you want, you can make more, but if it is horrible, you do not have to pull apart or discard or shoot it out, wasting time and components.

Yeah, found that out the hard way when I first started. Luckily, it was only 50 rounds to pull apart.

The test rounds I loaded last week were done in even smaller batches (6 or less). Since I know all the 200gr swc functioned/shot well enough, that's what I'm buying.

I need to reload/test enough to see whether I get excessive leading, but have no clue how many it'd take.

[BigK]

I found a deal at a local reloading shop today that was too good to be true on 200 gr LSWC today, $37.99/500. So, I bought 3 boxes. Got em home and grabbed the calipers. Turns out they're only .450! My barrel slugged at .451, so I have to take em back. That sucks.

[gregintenn]

I found a deal at a local reloading shop today that was too good to be true on 200 gr LSWC today, $37.99/500. So, I bought 3 boxes. Got em home and grabbed the calipers. Turns out they're only .450! My barrel slugged at .451, so I have to take em back. That sucks.

Are they hollow base by chance? If so, I expect they'll work out great anyway.

[Caster]

I found a deal at a local reloading shop today that was too good to be true on 200 gr LSWC today, $37.99/500. So, I bought 3 boxes. Got em home and grabbed the calipers. Turns out they're only .450! My barrel slugged at .451, so I have to take em back. That sucks.

Sorry. That SUCKS! I've said it before, It's HARD to find a good commercial cast bullet. They can't get it in their head that it'd be better if a customer had to run them through a sizer than throw them away! I'd be mad if I bought something .450. If I bought some that were .455 though, I wouldn't say a word!

[BigK]

Are they hollow base by chance? If so, I expect they'll work out great anyway.

They are not hollow base, unfortunately.

I asked the guy if he had a set of calipers I could use, but didn't. I knew I should have stashed an extra in my emergency bag in the trunk. He took one out of the box and walked over to the bin and held it up beside a 185 gr JHP and said it looks about right to him. I wish my eyes were sharp enough to detect 2 thousandths of an inch difference b/w to bullets of different shapes...I'd be a helluva lot better shot.

Nice guy, don't get me wrong...but that was just silly.

[cyh1830]

Kevin,

I copied this from the forum link below. This is not necessarily powder related (although there are strings on powders) but more related to OAL. I read several comments on OAL in this string.

Bottom line in the article. Find the exact OAL using any specfic bullet for your specific gun. All chamber lengths and ogives are NOT created equal. All you need are calipers.

P.S. The author of this article also has excellent information on powders. Caution about A#2, #5 when using Lee pressing. Boatload of leaking.

The Link: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131

To this text:

Well, books and help line people can certainly be valuable, but there's no substitute for knowing exactly how your bullet interacts with your barrel. As I said, the XTP is special and your CZ chamber is also special. So let's not guess, let's find out EXACTLY. Sound good?

There are several ways to do this, but here's my method.... Fit a new bullet into a fired case. (No powder; fired primer.) If you try 2 or 3 bullet/case combinations you'll end up with 1 or 2 where the bullet is a snug "push fit". Set the bullet out to an OAL of like 1.300". Any OAL longer than what you need. Working with your barrel REMOVED from the gun, slide this "test cartridge" into the chamber. At some point it will stop going into the chamber. In other words, whatever the bullet is striking is keeping the test cartridge from going all the way in. At this point, if you continue to push, the bullet will slide back into the case until the mouth of the case comes to rest on the end of the chamber. So whatever the bullet was striking has pushed the bullet back into the case. Follow?

Now, slowly and carefully withdraw the test cartridge and measure its new length. Do this with other bullets and other cases until you start to see the same number again and again. That measurement is your exact chamber length for that bullet in that barrel. Now of course we need a set-back distance off the rifling, so subtract at least .015" from that number to obtain your maximum OAL.

So let's assume your test cartridge keeps giving you a number like 1.177". We subtract our setback and get 1.177" - .015" to equal 1.160". You see I've backed off an additional .002" because 1) it's simply easier to read on a caliper, 2) the chances of finding a load for 1.162" is impossible, whereas 1.160 is probably pretty good, and 3) we're talking less than a human hair, so gee whiz give it a break!

With an OAL like 1.160" you can use any load for 200gr jacketed that is equal to or shorter than. So the load for the 1.155" from Hodgdon will work nicely. Can you follow all that? I hope so. Now you are armed with EXACT knowledge of your firearm and don't have to guess any longer.

Ask questions. We're here to help.

Hope this gets you on your way.

[mikegideon]

Wow! I have done every one of those steps on my long range rifle. Hornady makes a tool to make the job easier. On a pistol? Not me. Besides, I have 3 different guns. I only want one pile of ammo.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I use my barrel as my case length gage if my dies loosen. As long as the cartridge chambers and the length isn't too short you will not have an issue. Personally I like to have a little bit of a jump to the rifling to keep pressures in check.

It is possible to have pressure spikes from a bullet that is loaded too long. Most people worry about the bullet setback causing pressure spike but the same can be true for bullets that are too long as well. If the bullet negages the riflig upon chambering this does increase pressures. Having the bullet make a small jump to the rifling reduces these pressues.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I use my barrel as my case length gage if my dies loosen. As long as the cartridge chambers and the length isn't too short you will not have an issue. Personally I like to have a little bit of a jump to the rifling to keep pressures in check.

It is possible to have pressure spikes from a bullet that is loaded too long. Most people worry about the bullet setback causing pressure spike but the same can be true for bullets that are too long as well. If the bullet negages the riflig upon chambering this does increase pressures. Having the bullet make a small jump to the rifling reduces these pressues.

Dolomite

This. Even if you did find a magic jump length, I can't imagine a useful improvement in accuracy in a gun that's used for unsupported off hand shooting.

I'm loading mine very close to max OAL to minimize pressure. That assures me that there will be some bullet jump in any chamber that's in spec.

[cyh1830]

Wow! I have done every one of those steps on my long range rifle. Hornady makes a tool to make the job easier. On a pistol? Not me. Besides, I have 3 different guns. I only want one pile of ammo.

I found the process above was necessary for my CZ 75 Shadow and Berry HBFP bullets. The CZ chamber and bullet ogive are very short, created cartidges that were considerably too long. This is a much different profile than a SIG chambered with a RN bullet.

[mikegideon]

Does the CZ 75 not handle factory ammo?

[cyh1830]

Does the CZ 75 not handle factory ammo?

It does. But factory ammo is round nose. Hollow Back Flat Points are not. Dimensions dictate a consderably shorter bullet otherwise it's jam-o-matic.

[Jonnin]

the eaa witness and my cz are the same --- and it is the real reason we swapped to 380 bullets. The smaller bullets can be tailored to fit into the cz better, while the regular 9mm bullets have to be a specific type seated to a specific depth, you have no room to work on the load.

You *can* use a longer bullet in them but it has to be a steeply cone shaped one.

The guns eat most factory but not all, a few do not work. Its rare, mostly very fat JHPs on the heavy end.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Jonnin

[mikegideon]

It does. But factory ammo is round nose. Hollow Back Flat Points are not. Dimensions dictate a consderably shorter bullet otherwise it's jam-o-matic.

Yeah. The XTPs I loaded are the same way. They're hollow points, with a shorter specified max OAL.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

A shame the cone-shaped bullets loaded kinda long don't feed in some guns. Didn't know that. IIRC the XTP 124 gn factory OAL is 1.06" and thats all I ever used on em. Never noticed a feeding problem. A stubby little round.

Was looking at those hollow base Berrys at the store. Interesting. Not just a curved concave base, but a deep hole in the base like a reverse hollow point. Are they relatively new or have they been around a long time?

Is the rationale to make a bullet that seals fabulous on its fast ride out the barrel? Kinda a shame if it won't feed reliably loaded to a long OAL because that design would seem to provide "more effective case capacity" and a wider safety range before over-pressure?

[mikegideon]

My XTPs are 230 gr. The specified minimum OAL is shorter than 230 gr ball. Seating depth is about the same.

[BigK]

All the work to figure out an OAL and bullet shape that works in the CZs isn't wasted just on the CZs. I don't have a single other 9mm that won't shoot the ammo my CZs like. Furthermore, by reducing the OAL some, I save powder...win, win

[BigK]

I found the process above was necessary for my CZ 75 Shadow and Berry HBFP bullets. The CZ chamber and bullet ogive are very short, created cartidges that were considerably too long. This is a much different profile than a SIG chambered with a RN bullet.

The last couple thousand 9mm I loaded were 124 gr HBRN-TP and then the 115 gr HBRN-TP. I didn't even change the OAL that's been working for me (1.125"). I just adjusted the powder charge to compensate for less volume in the case. I haven't had any feeding/accuracy issues at all.

I do hear some over on CZFirearms.us saying they're going way down to 1.07 with some bullets to keep the nose out of the rifling. I don't see how they avoid compressing the powder like that.

[Jonnin]

The last couple thousand 9mm I loaded were 124 gr HBRN-TP and then the 115 gr HBRN-TP. I didn't even change the OAL that's been working for me (1.125"). I just adjusted the powder charge to compensate for less volume in the case. I haven't had any feeding/accuracy issues at all.

I do hear some over on CZFirearms.us saying they're going way down to 1.07 with some bullets to keep the nose out of the rifling. I don't see how they avoid compressing the powder like that.

powder type. Use the super fast/hot stuff and less of it (pressure up from deep seating) and there would still be air space in it.

[mikegideon]

The last couple thousand 9mm I loaded were 124 gr HBRN-TP and then the 115 gr HBRN-TP. I didn't even change the OAL that's been working for me (1.125"). I just adjusted the powder charge to compensate for less volume in the case. I haven't had any feeding/accuracy issues at all.

I do hear some over on CZFirearms.us saying they're going way down to 1.07 with some bullets to keep the nose out of the rifling. I don't see how they avoid compressing the powder like that.

I just don't get that. At least one of the 75 series (P01) is NATO classified. I had one, and it ran all the factory stuff just fine. I guess it does pay to do your chamber measurements. That and a bullet comparator should keep you out of hunt and peck mode.

[Dolomite_supafly]

A shame the cone-shaped bullets loaded kinda long don't feed in some guns. Didn't know that. IIRC the XTP 124 gn factory OAL is 1.06" and thats all I ever used on em. Never noticed a feeding problem. A stubby little round.

Was looking at those hollow base Berrys at the store. Interesting. Not just a curved concave base, but a deep hole in the base like a reverse hollow point. Are they relatively new or have they been around a long time?

Is the rationale to make a bullet that seals fabulous on its fast ride out the barrel? Kinda a shame if it won't feed reliably loaded to a long OAL because that design would seem to provide "more effective case capacity" and a wider safety range before over-pressure?

They have been around since the days of the Colt single actions. The .41 caliber Colt had a bullet that would literally drop down the bore if it was unfired. Now upon firing it would seal like you mention.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

IIRC the mini-ball for muskets was hollow based so it would flare out to fit in a variety of not quite to spec guns, and proved to be very accurate and was the best design of the time. That was used in the civil war.

[BigK]

I just don't get that. At least one of the 75 series (P01) is NATO classified. I had one, and it ran all the factory stuff just fine. I guess it does pay to do your chamber measurements. That and a bullet comparator should keep you out of hunt and peck mode.

I've actually never bought ammo that my CZs wouldn't shoot. I just avoided the couple that folks warned about (UMC and Blazer). I haven't run across any yet that was too long or too short. Seems the mfg stay in the middle to accomodate as large a crowd as possible.

[ffr1910]

I use Lead SWC on top of cci primers and 3.6gr of Clays. I run this in both my AR and my Warthog-Bill