New to reloading 45 acp

[mikegideon]

Have you checked DLM's pricing on bullets?

[BigK]

Have you checked DLM's pricing on bullets?

No, I haven't even heard of them. I can't seem to find anything with Google either.

Edited May 16, 2012 by BigK

[Jonnin]

I like this place : http://www.missouribullet.com/

But, I have not tried their .45s. I have used 6 or 7 of their other calibers and had no real leading problem --- the barrel, after 100 rounds or more, has at most a see-thru-thin smear of soot and possibly lead, possibly lube, possibly soot-lead-lube but whatever it is very mild. Copper leaves shavings in the rifleing and soot, not a lot of difference at cleaning time. I have yet to cook up a load that melts the lead and shoots streamers out or anything else that I have heard about from others. Apparently, their hardness additives work well enough.

Soon as I run out of plated 45s, I plan to try them. I just bought way too many plated when I first started.

[Caster]

No, I haven't even heard of them. I can't seem to find anything with Google either.

I doubt David will come up on a Google search.

Click the link in my signature and send him a PM.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Caster

[mikegideon]

I doubt David will come up on a Google search.

Click the link in my signature and send him a PM.

I sent him David's number in a PM

[Dolomite_supafly]

With lead bullets the lube you use is everything as far as being dirty. Most people see smoke and assume it is the lead but it is most likely the type of lube they are using. And a lot of commercial bullet makers use lube that looks good rather than acts good. The best lube by far is Alox. I have in a previous life used the wax ring for toilets to lube 22lr bullets. Not sure if it would work for centerfire but I might try it at some point.

I will also say that for years I used Missouri bullets, their prices are great and their products seemed good. But with their bullets I always got a significant amount of lead in the bore of my 1911 as well as a 9mm I have. I talked to them and they said to push the bullets harder. So I increased the powder charge, and increased it and increased it even more. I quit increasing when I was pushing a 200 grain bullet at well over 1,050+ fps. And even at that velocity I was still getting the same amount of leading in the bore.

After talking to a few friends they said use Alox on the Missouri bullets. I tumble lubed the same Missouri bullets using Alox and the leading issue went away or at least was significantly reduced. Think about it if the problem was with the lead then 22's would be fouled but the lube is the key.

As far as a clean powder I have never really paid that much attention to it. I have used Clays, HS-6, Longshot, Trailboss and I finally settled on Power Pistol. I do know that using Power Pistol and cast bullets hitting clays at 125 yards 7 our of 10 times can be done with some regularity.

And for those wanting the ultimate in savings casting your own is a no brainer. I am able to LOAD 45 acp for about a nickel a shot. I could use some really miserly powder (Clays) and get some cheap primers and load for under .04 a round. The cost to get into casting is cheap. You can find used equipment and be setup for under $50 for everything or new for under $80.

Dolomite

[Caster]

As Dolomite said about the smoke...If you're using Lee Liquid Alox and getting smoke you are using entirely too much. That stuff is really too much to use straight from the bottle anyway. I need to start a thread on 'how-to' make 45/45/10.

[BigK]

I like this place : http://www.missouribullet.com/

I have them bookmarked as a resource. They're listed as MBC by several major powder companies in their load data. Plus,they're every bit as cheap as snscasting.com. I wanna try MBC, but their site says allow up to 3 weeks for deliver. I don't usually think that far ahead, but I'd like to start.

[BigK]

Dolomite brings up something I meant to ask earlier. How do you use Alox? Is it a liquid you tumble on and allow to dry before reloading? Most cast bullets you buy in bulk, like MBC, say they are already lubed, but if I were casting my own would I have to put something on the bullets before the Alox or is it enough on its own?

I need to start a thread on 'how-to' make 45/45/10.

Caster, please do that...I know I'd read it for sure. If you did a "how-to" more folks might be willing to try as well.

In the meantime, Will the Alox reduce the leading to an acceptable level once I find an accurate load or do I still have to test multiple charges until I find the sweet spot? Is it possible that some bores never get to the point that they don't get a lot of lead?

[mikegideon]

Caster, please do that...I know I'd read it for sure. If you did a "how-to" more folks might be willing to try as well.

First, you put on a rubber glove and lube up two fingers. Then, you PLUNGE the lubed fingers into the bowl of boolits until they make a loud shreaking sound. Easy peasy.

[Caster]

Here, this'll save time. Read this first post and stick to it. I PROMISE, most people are using WAY too much.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

Also BigK, the size of the bullet is key. Proper fit is paramount. What some folks can't accept either....there's little to no chance you'll ever get the bullet so big as to cause major worries. It just won't chamber. Do you know I shoot a .311 bullet in my .308? ZERO leading and I'm hitting 1950-2000 fps.

[Caster]

BigK, Did you read my thread on getting started casting?

[Dolomite_supafly]

One more thing to touch on regarding brass.

Most people tumble their brass with way TOO much media. And when you have too much media it actually acts like a buffer extending the time needed to clean the brass. If you cut back on the amount of media then the brass themselves will clean each other.

What I do is add the brass to my tumbler with no media at all then turn it on. The brass will sit there and do a little dance but do not tumble at all. Then I add media a cup at a time until the brass just begins to roll over on itself. You get a lot more action and the brass will be sqeaky clean in no time at all.

Dolomite

[Caster]

We need a reloading social group and use it for tutorials.

[mikegideon]

We need a reloading social group and use it for tutorials.

Good idea

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Handloads.com makes me wanna pull my hair out. Even though Quickload is seldom dead accurate, it does let you vary things and see their effects. I would much rather use real pressure tested data. I need to play with barrel length in .45 and see how much difference it makes.

It would be fun to measure actual pressure. You probably know this already, but was interesting to find that a person crazy enough to spend about the same bucks as a couple of good pistols can apparently measure pressure pretty good.

It almost seems that a person smart enough could figure out some kind of design of a modified case with some kind of built-in indicator. Maybe a built-in crush pellet or whatever. It would need to respond to pressure while being temp-insensitive. Such "special cases" with a color indicator or maybe some feature you could read with a micrometer might be a good niche-selling item but the absence of such an obvious product might indicate that it would be a tough problem.

Or possibly a cunningly-devised special pressure indicating primer? Perhaps a primer with some of the metal "thin" morphing to "thick" so that one could measure the percentage of primer flattening to get a pretty good indication? If 1/3 of the circumference is flattened it would indicate X pressure but if 3/4 of the circumference is flat it would indicate Y pressure? Or maybe a primer cup with a domed hemispherical surface, so that the diameter of the "flattened" section in the middle of the fired primer would indicate pressure? You would only get a "fully flat" primer at slightly over the max pressure?

However, of available off the shelf systems, the RSI PressureTrace II looks interesting. From cursory reading it may be penny-wise and pound foolish to mount strain gages on one's recreational guns. Ferinstance if I wanted to measure pressure on 9mm and .357 mag-- Buy the Pressure Trace II rig and a Thompson center pistol with 9mm and .357 mag barrels. Glue the strain gages to those two test barrels.

http://shootingsoftw...om/pressure.htm

http://www.frfrogspad.com/intballi.htm

http://www.ktgunsmit...straingauge.htm

http://thefiringline...d.php?p=3216048

http://www.chuckhawk...measurement.htm

[mikegideon]

AFIK, all the load data in reloading manuals is already pressure tested. Went thru that with the .458 SOCOM, where there was NO pressure tested data for awhile.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

AFIK, all the load data in reloading manuals is already pressure tested. Went thru that with the .458 SOCOM, where there was NO pressure tested data for awhile.

Yep, agreed. Its just the occasional situation-- If one precisely follows a reloading manual recipe and then gets noticeably different velocity than the published velocity, then a person might be curious how much variance might also be in the published pressure measurements?

[Caster]

We need a reloading social group and use it for tutorials.

Soon as we get moderator approval, I have a reloading social group set up.

Anyone that has a tried and true, tested and put to rest method, be sure and make a post there. I made a section for tutorials so we can reference them in times of need so be through. Beats the heck out of retyping every time a new member comes along with the same question.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Caster

[mikegideon]

Lester,

Sure. I'm thinking they may build a little safety margin in too. You have variations in case volume, and all kinds of other things.An example... in quickload, changing the OAL of a .45 from 2.230 to 2.235 drops the peak pressure from 21138 psi to 20732 psi. That's using Bulleye powder and a 230 gr Hornady XTP bullet. MV goes from 860 to 855. That's a pretty small change in case volume.

Edited May 17, 2012 by mikegideon

[Jonnin]

the change in pressure from seating 9mm deeper is kinda scary. Even here its 2% pressure to get very small gains.

[mikegideon]

That's what makes bullet setback such a scary deal. A 5 thousanths change moved the pressure by 400 psi. Think about a setback of 100 thousanths.

[BigK]

Also BigK, the size of the bullet is key. Proper fit is paramount. What some folks can't accept either....there's little to no chance you'll ever get the bullet so big as to cause major worries. It just won't chamber. Do you know I shoot a .311 bullet in my .308? ZERO leading and I'm hitting 1950-2000 fps.

That makes sense, so I just finished slugging my barrel and got .451". I'm assuming these .452 bullets should be good to go then, right?

BigK, Did you read my thread on getting started casting?

I'm not quite ready to take that step yet. I wanna make sure I'm smart enough to load lead bullets first. Then I may investigate casting my own.

[Caster]

That makes sense, so I just finished slugging my barrel and got .451". I'm assuming these .452 bullets should be good to go then, right?

I'm not quite ready to take that step yet. I wanna make sure I'm smart enough to load lead bullets first. Then I may investigate casting my own.

.452 should work just fine. Here's the rub though. Are you sure they're .452 when you fire them?

Do you have a kinetic hammer? You need one. Load a dummy just like you were going to shoot it. Seat and crimp (if that's what you do) then pull it carefully and remeasure. Make darn sure your brass and/or crimp is not sizing down your bullet. It happens and it's frustrating because it's so easily missed. Many folks have given up on account of this little gremlin. I have had to discard certain brands/lots of brass for being too tight inside. Set them aside for a jacketed bullet. This problem is prevalent in straight wall cases. It's not an issue with bottle necked cases in a dedicated rifle because we neck size those. Neck sizing allows a good bit of control over inside diameter and neck tension by changing out a bushing or adjusting the collet depending on your die of choice.

[BigK]

I'll give that a try and see. I'm only crimping to between .470 & .471, but I'll pull a couple to see.

Assuming that's not a problem, I guess I'm gonna order 1K of the 200 gr SWC. How many should I lube with Alox and load up to make a decent test for leading issues?