The Garden Thread

[peejman]

A place to discuss what you grow, how you grow it, and what you do with it. I'm thinking mostly veggies, but this can include most anything.

I am an amateur gardener. I have a very small garden at home (3x10') and have grown the usual veggies. This year, my employer decided to let those interested plant a garden in the unused lot behind the building. Not knowing if anything will grow there, I've planted the easy stuff (tomatoes, cucumbers, okra...) and I'm trying broccoli, spinach , and peas at home. I also did lettuce, but only got 2 tiny seedlings that didn't last a week. Too hot I think. I'd like to try watermelon and cantaloupe.

One problem area I've had for several years is what I believe to be tomato blight. My plants grow fine and just when they're starting to make small tomatoes, they wilt and die. Anyone got suggestions on how to prevent that?

I've never really done much in the way of storing extra produce, I usually just give it away. I've read that some veggies can be blanched and frozen (green beans, peas, okra..). I've got a vacuum sealer, so I'm gonna give that a try this year. My wife expressed some interest in canning. I helped my parents can stuff when I was a kid, but haven't done it in at least 20 years. I've got two hungry boys to feed so I hope to save all I can.

On this topic, my 4 yr old and I built a compost barrel over the weekend. I did the requisite googling and decided on the elevated X-brace design ,mostly because it looked easy to build and use. The whole thing cost me about $30. I got the plastic 55 gal barrel free from work. We use various chemicals and I managed to snag an empty one that didn't have anything particularly nasty in it. I did rinse it out very thoroughly. I used two 8' and one 10' 2x4 (treated) for the frame and the axle is 2" PVC. It took me and my helper about 3 hours.

Edited May 1, 2012 by peejman

[JPS]

I've had success with tomatoes - try planting your plants deeper (I'll put an 8-inch plant deep enough so that only 1-2 inches shows above ground) and put a tablespoon of garden lime (I bought mine from a nursery for $3 bag) at the bottom of the whole before planting. Then miracle-grow the sh*t out of them.

Nice composter!

[peejman]

I've had success with tomatoes - try planting your plants deeper (I'll put an 8-inch plant deep enough so that only 1-2 inches shows above ground) and put a tablespoon of garden lime (I bought mine from a nursery for $3 bag) at the bottom of the whole before planting. Then miracle-grow the sh*t out of them.

Nice composter!

Getting them started hasn't been a problem, keeping them alive is. They'll grow up to full height, make a few little green tomatoes, then wilt and die. In the past I've had 3-5 plants and always lose at least one this way.

Since the garden at work is on company property, I can't use chemicals. I dug the holes about 3x bigger than they needed to be and filled them back up with mushroom compost. They made it through the weekend, so I'm hopeful.

[JPS]

Good luck then! What kind of tomatoes did you plant?

This year I limited mine to three varieties - Brandywine (which I love, but find hard to grow), Parks Whopper, and Big Beef (last two on recommendation of garden nursery 'expert'.) Balance of garden real estate is filled with cilantro, chilies, cucumbers, and a new asparagus plant that I hope will survive for the few years it takes it to produce.

[peejman]

Good luck then! What kind of tomatoes did you plant?

This year I limited mine to three varieties - Brandywine (which I love, but find hard to grow), Parks Whopper, and Big Beef (last two on recommendation of garden nursery 'expert'.) Balance of garden real estate is filled with cilantro, chilies, cucumbers, and a new asparagus plant that I hope will survive for the few years it takes it to produce.

I planted 3 Better Boy, one Roma, and one Cherry tomato plants. I've also got okra, cucumbers, green beans, snap peas, broccoli, and spinach. We had some of the spinach with dinner last night, first harvest of the season. It was a tad bitter, but I think we let the leaves get too big before picking them. I may plant some peppers and such in the flowerbeds around the house.

[Dennis1209]

I planted a huge garden this year so I can can a bunch of stuff. I believe I have 36 tomato plants out so far. Between the deer, rabbits and bugs I normally lose about 30% of my garden. The bugs really like my peaches and green beans and root worms like my tomatoes and zucchini. Use a hand sprayer for your tomatoes with bug killer and just spray around the base of the tomato plants into the soil if you suspect root bugs and /or spray the soil around the base of the plant and the plant itself.

Also, you can not over lime a garden unless you get really carried away. Lime your garden generously and throw a bunch of 15-15-15 fertilizer in the soil also. As said above, about every week water the tomatoes with Miracle Grow and keep weeded.

When your tomato plants start to bloom, make an application or two of "Epsom" salt to the soil surrounding your plants. Mix 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt per gallon of water and spray in the soil at the base of the plant. Continue spraying miracle grow on your plants once or twice a week and keep weeded.

I forgot to mention, tomato's like hot weather and cool roots. Use newspaper, straw or mulish liberally at the base of each plant to keep the roots cool and moisture in the soil. It also helps control weeds.

The preceding works for me, hope it helps you too. Good luck!

[JAB]

I have some indeterminate tomatoes - a couple of German Queen, one other heirloom variety I can't recall the name of right now and one yellow cherry - as well as three Rutgers heirloom determinate tomatoes. I plan to use the indeterminates mostly for fresh eating or cooking tomatoes. If the determinates do well, I plan to can those (along with any spare indeterminates I might have at the time.) I know I won't get a lot of tomatoes for canning but between what I grow and the fact that a lot of folks have tomatoes they are trying to give away most of the time I hope to get at least one, good run. One tip you guys may enjoy - for canning, instead of putting the tomatoes in hot water and then in ice water to loosen the skins for removal, I put them on the grill. The skins will loosen and char just a little (I'm removing the skins, anyway) and the tomatoes then have a nice, smoky/roasted flavor that stays with them through the canning process.

All the tomato plants, except the Rutgers, were bought at the Amish produce market in Delano. I also bought a 'rambling' yellow cherry tomato plant that was in a hanging basket from them. They have greenhouses, apparently, because the tomato the name of which I can't recall already had green tomatoes on it and the hanging basket tomato was already loaded with little, green tomatoes. Two of the tomatoes on the hanging basket plant ripened over the weekend and I sliced them and put them on an Arby's roast beef sandwich for lunch yesterday. Mmmmm...the first tomatoes of the season (I generally don't even eat raw tomato in the winter unless it is in salsa, etc. because I can't stand the pale, crunchy things.)

Beyond tomatoes, I try to use my limited space to grow things that are either expensive to buy, hard to keep 'fresh' except by growing it or are simply difficult to find. Along those lines, I am growing basil (can be made into pesto which can be kept in the freezer at the end of the season), dill and oregano. I covered my plants during the recent cold snap but the basil still didn't come through it looking all that good. I am hopeful it will recover, though. I'll probably add rosemary and sage before it is over with.

Finally, I am growing a variety of chile peppers. I am a total chile head and will use them fresh as well as smoke and dry them as in chipotles - although I have also smoke/dried habaneros, poblanos (anchos), serranos and anaheims. I sometimes simply dry them without smoking them first or otherwise preserve them by pickling, making and canning sauces and so on at the end of the season. This year, I am trying ghost peppers, scotch bonnets and pequins for the first time. I have some habaneros, jalapenos and serranos which I have grown, before. All but the jalapenos and serranos also came from the Amish market. I'm trying the mammoth jalapenos this year because I want to make stuffed jalapenos. I like poblanos and anaheims but really don't use them enough to fool with growing them this year (I still have some anchos from last year that should be enough to take care of my need for them until next year.) Those and a couple of other varieties are sort of an every other year/every few years kind of thing.

I still haven't decided if I am going to try to grow some cantaloupes. There might be some okra in there, too - just a few plants, enough to have a 'mess' or two. Of other things that are fairly easy to grow, I don't like cucumbers, watermelon or strawberries so I won't fool with those. Butternut squash is good and is over $1 per pound right now - I got one the other day that totaled out over $3. I think my mom may grow some of those. I may can some creamed corn, green beans and the like but I have decided that it is easier and cheap enough just to buy those from a farmer's market or from some farmer selling them from the back of his pickup than it is to try and grow a sufficient amount for canning. The only problem is finding corn that isn't super sweet - I don't like really sweet corn. I will probably plant a 'fall bed' of greens - my favorite being mustard and kale.

One more thing is that the wild blackberries along the edge of the road on my property, mom's property and my sister's property are all loaded with blossoms or tiny, green berries. I am hoping to gather quite a few blackberries this year. I'm not crazy about blackberries fresh or in pies, etc. but I do like blackberry jelly (no seeds.) There might even be some homemade blackberry wine in my future.

Edited May 1, 2012 by JAB

[Guest USMC 2013]

Getting them started hasn't been a problem, keeping them alive is. They'll grow up to full height, make a few little green tomatoes, then wilt and die. In the past I've had 3-5 plants and always lose at least one this way.

Since the garden at work is on company property, I can't use chemicals. I dug the holes about 3x bigger than they needed to be and filled them back up with mushroom compost. They made it through the weekend, so I'm hopeful.

Tomatoes need a lot of nitrogen. Mulch with compost every 3-4 weeks. The compost will act as natural fertilizer and as mulch. (Which helps retain moisture and keeps weed numbers down). Semper Fi,

Joe

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I keep meaning to get in the habit of growing a few square feet of turnip greens spring and fall. If you can't grow turnip greens something is bad wrong and they am good.

Years ago kept maybe a 20 ft X 30 ft garden, typical stuff, squash, okra, butter beans, snap beans, egg plant, corn, onions and maters. And turnip greens. I really like greens, zucchini and yellow squash but don't hardly cook anything that won't fit in a microwave nowadays.

The slugs were bad sometimes but found out if you put out little saucers of beer, the slugs like beer better than veggies. They crawl into the beer and presumably die a happy death. Back then fertilizer, miracle grow and sevin pesticide was all I knew to use. Sometimes would be spraying sevin dust and the wind would change direction. Finish spraying and go inside and feel "kinda odd" for awhile. Maybe it didn't kill too many brain cells.

First year didn't know anything about it and the okra kept getting bigger and bigger. Thought had got lucky and was growing record-breaking world-class monster okra, only to discover if you let em get too big they turn into inedible okra-shaped wood sticks. Live and learn.

Main reason I quit doing it, the old tiller I had, can't recall the name of it but it would beat you to death. Began to think it would be easier to till with a shovel. Maybe it would have worked better on softer dirt. My dirt seemed to grow veggies fine but it was hard as concrete again every spring.

Some tillers have seen since, the motor and wheels are arranged so that the motor supplies weight to brake the progress and keep it from "jumping up and running away". Those models look easier to control. But this tiller had a crude iron stake on the back as a brake and the tiller blades in front of the motor. It was a lot of work lifting the handles up to drive the blades into the dirt then mashing down on the handle, mashing that iron stake into the ground hard enough to keep it from running away. On the other hand, a small tractor or an ATV with some tilling attachments sure would be nice. I don't have enough flat land all in one place here, that gets enough sun, to justify anything bigger than a tiller.

[gjohnsoniv]

You should try the "Square Foot Garden." It's an interesting concept.

[Guest Gwith40]

I usually grow a garden about 45 x 20...but not this year. The garden space is in another county and too far to drive frequently enough to take care of the space, due to fuel prices. Typically I would plant about a dozen tomato plants, a few rows of corn and maybe some green beans.

Believe it or not, you can get too much nitrogen around your tomatoes. This will produce a very large plant with few blooms and not many tomatoes. The last couple of years I have been using a product called tomato-tone. It seems to be well-balanced and works very well. I have had large sturdy plants that produce well.

On the subject of plants wilting: That can be a lot of things. It sounds like you may have a problem with either you soil, or the source of your plants. Try getting your plants from another source, or moving them to another piece of ground, if possible. Sometimes large greenhouse sources sell thousands of infected plants and it will not be obvious at first. Also, if you have a soil-borne problem, it might take a while to infect the plants. Some of the diseases have treatments but you likely would not want to use them, because of toxicity...such as copper sprays. If you have an extension office nearby, they can be quite helpful with any questions you have.

[peejman]

I knew there were some real gardeners here....

I typically use pine straw as mulch on my garden. Seems to help keep any veggies that touch the ground from rotting so fast.

Earlier this year, I sent soil samples from my garden area and flowerbeds at home to the UT AG extension for testing (http://soilplantandpest.utk.edu/soil/index.htm). Their analysis didn't really surprise me, but did provide some direction.

I've heard about the beer trick for slugs. I haven't seen any around so far. *knock on wood*

Front tine tillers suck and beat you to death. Rear tines are soooo much easier. You should be able to rent one at your local equipment rental or co-op for something like $40/day. Way cheaper than owning one when you use it twice a year.

I love blueberries, but apparently I'm incapable of growing them. We had some huge blueberry bushes where I grew up and my parents still have some. I've tried a couple times but they never do anything. The soil analysis told me I need to add sulfur to increase the acidity.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

You should try the "Square Foot Garden." It's an interesting concept.

Thanks that is an interesting idea. Wife may be familiar with that already, will show her the square foot gardening links. Wife is technophobic and doesn't do computers except at her work. She gets her information from these strange antique things I think they are called "books" and "magazines". Edit: Just asked her about it and she looked at me like I was stupid, like "What, you never heard of square foot gardening?"

She does a fair amount of flower and shrub gardening while I'm nerding on the puter and they are pretty. A couple of her areas are like the "square foot garden" concept except we made the boxes out of railroad ties long ago. Railroad ties last a long time before rotting out though they eventually dissolve. She got her brother to build wood boxes like the "square foot garden" for her mom, and maintains nice flower beds in the boxes for her mom (who is too old to do much except watering and pulling an occasional weed).

Something she started playing with this spring, a related concept she read about in "Birds and Blooms" magazine. The same thing using cardboard boxes. The article said the cardboard boxes last "long enough" and there is always a ready supply of them nowadays, and they are of course completely biodegradable.

I didn't read the article, she was just telling me about it. In addition to using cardboard boxes for grow boxes, it used busted-down cardboard boxes for ground cover weed suppression. If recalling what she said, the cardboard is porous enough that it doesn't encourage mold infestations that you can get using black plastic as ground cover, and you can't beat free unless somebody is paying you to use the material. Cover the dirt with cardboard then cut holes for the plants to grow thru. She has a bunch of cardboard laid over about a 15' by 6' railroad tie bed in the back yard but it is still a work in progress at the moment. That bed gets well-watered because of the lay of the land and tends to be weed city by this time of the year, but obviously there isn't any waist-high mess of weeds in it this spring, with the cardboard laid out. I think she is planning to plant cardboard boxes of dirt on-top of the layer of cardboard, but she's been working the front beds and the back bed isn't in "full swing" as of yet.

Front tine tillers suck and beat you to death. Rear tines are soooo much easier. You should be able to rent one at your local equipment rental or co-op for something like $40/day. Way cheaper than owning one when you use it twice a year.

I love blueberries, but apparently I'm incapable of growing them. We had some huge blueberry bushes where I grew up and my parents still have some. I've tried a couple times but they never do anything. The soil analysis told me I need to add sulfur to increase the acidity.

Thanks that is a great idea renting a tiller. Though simple, the concept would have eluded me.

When I was a kid, gramps central AL farm was mostly cow pastures and pine woods after he quit cultivating any fields. I suppose sometime in the past he had dug the ditches, but there were irrigation ditches or drainage ditches sectioning off every couple of acres. Thinking about it, that geometric square grid of ditches probably didn't get there by accident of geology. Anyway, dunno if he planted them or if the blueberries and blackberries just liked the conditions, but there were solid walls of those bushes following the run of each irrigation ditch. They thrived and required no human attention except I suppose maybe they needed cut back occasionally to keep em from choking the ditches or taking over the pasture. Unless the cows volunteered that part of the job and required no human supervision.

Anyway when the berries ripe all the kids would go around collecting big pails of the berries. Some quantities of "blackberry preserves" were put up out of the crop. Maybe the blueberries too, can't recall.That part of central AL always had a bumper crop of rattlers and copperheads were hardly rare. I don't recall seeing moccasins in those not-always-wet ditches, though it was easy enough to find moccasins around bodies of water. We just had to be careful picking berries because it wasn't difficult to scare up a snake enjoying the shade under the bushes.

Dunno what percentage of berries turned into preserves compared to the ones that made on the spot into pie. Grandma would bake epic blackberry or blueberry pies in giant blue-porcelain steel pans. She would lay dough over the bottom of the pan then dump in who knows how many quarts of berries then cover the top with more dough. Enough pie to last the whole week for lots of kids.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[gjohnsoniv]

Thanks that is an interesting idea. Wife may be familiar with that already, will show her the square foot gardening links. Wife is technophobic and doesn't do computers except at her work. She gets her information from these strange antique things I think they are called "books" and "magazines". Edit: Just asked her about it and she looked at me like I was stupid, like "What, you never heard of square foot gardening?"

She does a fair amount of flower and shrub gardening while I'm nerding on the puter and they are pretty. A couple of her areas are like the "square foot garden" concept except we made the boxes out of railroad ties long ago. Railroad ties last a long time before rotting out though they eventually dissolve. She got her brother to build wood boxes like the "square foot garden" for her mom, and maintains nice flower beds in the boxes for her mom (who is too old to do much except watering and pulling an occasional weed).

Something she started playing with this spring, a related concept she read about in "Birds and Blooms" magazine. The same thing using cardboard boxes. The article said the cardboard boxes last "long enough" and there is always a ready supply of them nowadays, and they are of course completely biodegradable.

I didn't read the article, she was just telling me about it. In addition to using cardboard boxes for grow boxes, it used busted-down cardboard boxes for ground cover weed suppression. If recalling what she said, the cardboard is porous enough that it doesn't encourage mold infestations that you can get using black plastic as ground cover, and you can't beat free unless somebody is paying you to use the material. Cover the dirt with cardboard then cut holes for the plants to grow thru. She has a bunch of cardboard laid over about a 15' by 6' railroad tie bed in the back yard but it is still a work in progress at the moment. That bed gets well-watered because of the lay of the land and tends to be weed city by this time of the year, but obviously there isn't any waist-high mess of weeds in it this spring, with the cardboard laid out. I think she is planning to plant cardboard boxes of dirt on-top of the layer of cardboard, but she's been working the front beds and the back bed isn't in "full swing" as of yet.

The Square Foot Garden is a book . Mel Bartholemew is a nice guy, I've met him on several occasions. I actually have a square foot garden in the backyard now. You would think that being a person who sells the book and frames I would already have one up, but nope. Hopefully it will turn out well.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The Square Foot Garden is a book . Mel Bartholemew is a nice guy, I've met him on several occasions. I actually have a square foot garden in the backyard now. You would think that being a person who sells the book and frames I would already have one up, but nope. Hopefully it will turn out well.

Thanks gjohnsoniv. I had googled the title and found this website that describes it well. Its a neat idea. Maybe there are many sites but this was just the first one on google hits-- http://www.squarefoo....org/my-website

Edited May 2, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[peejman]

The sqft garden looks like a neat idea. I do recall one acquaintance that was relatively successful with it. Seems like harvesting would be a pain once things get big.

mmmmm..... blueberry cobbler..... mmmmmm..... blackberry pie.....

[gjohnsoniv]

Yes, there are a few sites that describe it. It more of a general idea but he was the first to write it down. That's how I take it at least. He also has his own special blend fo soil that is supposedly the best out there to use so I'm also giving that a shot.

[Raoul]

We have our asparagus bed. In our garden we've got collards, turnips, beets, radishes, onions, carrots, broccoli, tomatoes, and peppers.

So far I'm eating radishes, collards and turnip greens. And it looks like I have a few turnips big enough to pull.

[Dennis1209]

This is how it all starts! Originally I wanted a garden about 30' x 30', so I went to Lowes and bought a front tine tiller, brand new in the box even! Did the maintenance on it, gassed it up, pulled the string twice and away we go... With the rock hard ground and the race horse in front of me running wind sprints, after thirty minutes this old man was done, literally.I got all of five feet done.

There's got to be a better way, he thinks to himself, so... Two hours later, he comes home with this. Three hours and a twelve pack later, he has four separate garden plots. Moral of the story: Don't drink and till...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Dennis1209

[gjohnsoniv]

I like the tiller labeled "man Killer."

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The Lazy Man Tiller is great!

[Timestepper]

The sqft garden looks like a neat idea. I do recall one acquaintance that was relatively successful with it. Seems like harvesting would be a pain once things get big.

mmmmm..... blueberry cobbler..... mmmmmm..... blackberry pie.....

Actually, if you go with a 4'X4' size and leave room between them to walk around, harvesting is a breeze! Another option is 2'X8' which makes harvesting even easier yet. We tried our first (4X4) last year with good success and I'm looking at adding a couple of 2X8's next year - would have done it this year, but we're experimenting with "hanging gardens" this year and I just haven't had time to build the frames (I'm a cheap barsteward and just can't justify the cost of the ready made frames).

Blueberries & blackberries... love 'em! Thank God they grow wild up on the ridge, 'cause I doubt I'd have the patience to grow 'em myself (although we did start some Concord grapes a couple of years ago and hope to start getting grapes next year. MMMMMmmm!)

[peejman]

I like the tiller labeled "man Killer."

That's a perfect description. Unless you're NFL lineman sized, they're brutal on hard dirt.

Actually, if you go with a 4'X4' size and leave room between them to walk around, harvesting is a breeze! Another option is 2'X8' which makes harvesting even easier yet. We tried our first (4X4) last year with good success and I'm looking at adding a couple of 2X8's next year - would have done it this year, but we're experimenting with "hanging gardens" this year and I just haven't had time to build the frames (I'm a cheap barsteward and just can't justify the cost of the ready made frames).

Blueberries & blackberries... love 'em! Thank God they grow wild up on the ridge, 'cause I doubt I'd have the patience to grow 'em myself (although we did start some Concord grapes a couple of years ago and hope to start getting grapes next year. MMMMMmmm!)

My current garden at the house is about 3'x10', only it's up against the house so I can't get to both sides of it. I read a little more about sqft and I'm surprised he recommends using peat moss. I'm not a fan of using stuff that requires draining wetlands, peat moss and cypress in particular. There's plenty of other amendments that do the same thing.

Post up how the hanging garden thing works out. I've wondered about that too...

[JPS]

While I don't follow all the 'square foot gardening' rules, I use a raised bed that's about 6' by 8'. Each year after growing season I cover it with straw for the winter, and each spring I dump a few bags of topsoil on top of any remaining straw and turn over the soil before planting.

A couple of years ago I buried soaker hoses under the bed in an attempt to use less water and to get the moisture down to the roots - I would just hook up the garden hose, turn on the water, and leave it for an hour or so each day. Kinda had mixed results. The plants did ok, but I still had to top-water to keep them looking healthy. This spring I found the soaker hoses were falling apart, so I just pulled them out and will go back to just top-watering.

It's amazing how much you can produce in a small space.

[dickenscpa]

I live in a strict neighborhood that doesn't even let you park a vehicle outside of the garage. The neighborhood was brand new in '03 and has laxed a bit. We have a 4 car garage and my wife needs every bit of space she can get to park inside. LOL! On my side I have my reloading benches, lawn mowers and lawn equipment, Harley, ATV and bass boat so my truck sleeps outside. I actually bought a nice cover for my boat and when there's no threat of freeze I'm leaving my boat out in the warm months.

She wanted a small garden. I balked because I was concerned about the neighbors, even though we could tuck it out of site. I let her plant some tomatos last year in a 3'X3' spot and put onions and peppers in pots. Boy did that provide last year.

This year she wanted to go a bit bigger. I was reluctant and then a neighbor across the street put a garden in. Wasn't sure how I felt about where he put it. Then my 9 yr old son hit me up (No input from Mamma I'm sure ) about how I go on about being self preserving and survival. So my hand was called and I folded.

My wife had been composting all off season. I let her go and buy one of those raised garden enclosures plus the 3'X3' she had last year and now we're border line green acres.

I wish I could find me a little piece of land where we could plant some proper size. I've got 3 land options already but they're such a drive from home it would be hard to properly care for them. Also if it got dry, I'd have no way to water.

I grew up doing this. My wife is learning. I think it will be an absolute necessity for my kids to learn for their future.

Brad