something good from Obama

[Mike.357]

Finally, this schmoe has said something that makes sense.

Mrs Clinton and Sen McCain are speaking about removing the federal tax on gasoline for the summertime. While I do appreciate anything the gov't. can do to take its hand out of my pocket, pretending that doing this makes a rats ass of difference is an insult to my limited intelligence.

Federal tax on gasoline is 18 cents per gallon. On an average week I use 12 to 18 gallons of fuel in my pick up truck. So using the higher number I would be saved the wopping amount of $3.24 per week. Thirteen weeks of summer will save me the amount of $42.14. Big whooopty-doo!!

Of course I can go out and buy a new vehicle, one that gets 30 mpg. Of course this would cost me $300 a month in a car payment. Makes a lot of sense to spend $300 to not spend an extra $80 in fuel, well no it doesn't.

Obama has taken the stance to be against the removal of the fuel tax.

It is the first thing out of his mouth ever that I have agreed with.

Clinton is trying to appeal to the ignorance of the people who do not think this out. I promise you most people have no clue gas tax is .18 cents per gallon. I don't know what point McCain is trying to make. Both are pandering to get your vote.

Just what the heck am I to do with $3.24 a week? Gas is costing me about $20 a week more than this time last year and I am guessing by Labor Day it will be 30 bucks a week morethan last year. Of course if a Katrina type event happens to the Gulf Coast again I fully expect gas to top out near 8 bucks a gallon.

Why doesn't one of these prospective presidential morons demand that Congress allow the drilling of oil from the continental shelf, drilling closer to the Florida Coast in the Gulf of Mexico and drilling in the US northwest. And of course why we are not pulling oil out of Alaska I will never understand.

Even if this was suddenlly allowed there has not been a facility built in over twenty years to refine crude oil.

The next president must do something about the fuel useage in this country. Either that or increase the oil produced inside our borders. I fear that none of the three are up to the task. I am also sure that none of the three can actually tell you truthfully the last time they pumped gasoline into their own vehicle.

I am mad as hell and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

[Guest nj.piney]

clinton is talking about taxing the gas companies to pay for this reduction. where do you think the oil companies will go to get thier money back?

[Mark@Sea]

Including excise tax, sales tax, enviro impact taxes, petroleum tax, etc. Tennessee's total gas tax per gallon is just over 39 cents. The general assembly just passed a law that said that if federal tax on gasoline is lowered, the state tax will be raised an equal amount.

A federal gas tax holiday may sound nice, but it wouldn't do us a bit of good anyway.

[Mike.357]

clinton is talking about taxing the gas companies to pay for this reduction

I had not heard that. As I have always figured corporations have not ever paid taxes.

Simply all they do is pass the bill along to consumers. That woman is a flaming idiot.

And people who drink her flavor of Kool-Ade are idiots too.

Basic economics prove that to jump the economy you lessen taxes on corporations.

They ought to just print up some more money and give it to us to help pay for gas.

Freakin morons.

[molonlabetn]

I was hoping from the title that Obama had conceded...

To be quite honest, I really don't care how much gasoline is taxed, it's a non-renewable resource which is declining in availability, we should expect for the cost of its use to increase until some other fuel is developed (I shouldn't say 'developed', I should say 'revealed'... since the only reason we're still on a fossil fuels dependent economy is to drain the middle-east dry more quickly so that we can all move on from making the sheiks rich in the next few decades)...

In my opinion all consumer items should be taxed at a higher rate, and the income tax done away with, so that consumption is taxed, not production.

Reducing tax on gas would simply mean that something else will be taxed more, it's simple economics. The gov't isn't just going to relinquish revenue without some way to recoup it. Obama is either an idiot or a snake... and I presume the latter.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Our fuel usage as a country is going to have to change at the level of the individual citizen. Even with gas hovering around $3.50, we're still only seeing the beginnings of habit changes.

Thing is, for the lower earners in the country, it often doesn't make a lot of financial sense to move to a more efficient vehicle, as Mike alluded to. I'm in this situation- I have a 1986 Bronco II that averages ~14 MPG, and a motorcycle that sits around 50. It'd be nice to have a vehicle I could drive very day that did better than the truck... but I'd spend several thousand at minimum to do that, and as little as I drive, it'd take a while to make up the difference in reduced fuel costs. For the moment, the bike is my daily driver unless the weather's bad or I need to tote something.

Perhaps over the next few years we'll see the SUV's popularity continue to drop... I think that as the average person gets to the point of needing to replace a vehicle, we'll see them move to more efficient transportation. That, combined with gradual changes in driving habits, should work to lower overall demand for petro. I'd like to see this happen in concert with increasing domestic oil production.

[Mike.357]

(I shouldn't say 'developed', I should say 'revealed'... since the only reason we're still on a fossil fuels dependent economy is to drain the middle-east dry more quickly so that we can all move on from making the sheiks rich in the next few decades)...

You deserve a prize Eddie. I was not sure anyone else made that connection. This surely is the reason we do not exploit what oil we may have. Once the Middle East is dry someone else will be holding the cards.

What bothers me about saving our resources is that not enough effort is put into an alternative "gas". Certainly some other way to propel cars can be invented or already has been invented. But as long as "Big Oil" controls the economy the change over will not be made.

Also unfortunately draining the sheiks dry will not happen soon enough for my lifetime. It may offer my grandkids hope.

[molonlabetn]

We'll also start to see baseline mpg ratings begin to increase, from manufacturers, either by default or by government requirements... but, as mentioned, that will only really affect new car buyers. There aren't too many people who will buy a new vehicle for just a 10-25% increase in gas mileage. There will need to be a revolution in powerplant efficiency... and hybrid vehicles are not the way to go (as presently implemented). We're talking split-cycle non-reciprocating internal combusion engines of variable displacement and constant dynamic compression... Ethanol is a joke, unless engines are designed for it... that means more compression. As it is, most engines get ~90% of the gas mileage with 10% ethanol fuel... if you do the math, that means you're really burning the same amount of fuel to go the same distance... the ethanol is just a filler (presently). Electrochemistry is where it's at, with regards to ethanol, catalyze that ****, before burning the lower-grade byproducts in combustion... doing so would eliminate the need for parasitic mechanically-driven alternators AND lead-acid batteries... basically create a hybrid fuel-cell / IC engine.

jeez... did I just ramble that much?

Sorry.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I think hybrid technology is the short-term future, but the implementation is going to need to change from the current state of things. Something interesting I discovered the other day was the Aptera. The gas-electric model is claimed to surpass 100 MPG, depending on trip length. It's sort of an evolution of hybrid technology, I think... except that the electric system is the primary propulsion, with the gas engine kicking in as the batteries drain.

I've never really been big into the environmental concerns and such, nor have I really been more than peripherally interested in hybrid cars... but I'd drive that thing. I think it's kind of cool, and it's not stupid expensive either.

[molonlabetn]

Considering that the rate of world-wide petroleum consumption will double in the next 20 years (a-la Chinese middle-class, and exponential population increase), and the declining petroleum refinement rate, gasoline will easily double in the next 5-10 years... This society will be able to absorb only a fraction of that, so unless we're to be blindly plunged into serious, economic depression, the efficiency per-capita in the US will need to increase by at least 50% in 10years, and after that 150% to remain sustainable... that means radical change in personal transportation. In order to offset the inefficiency of 'older', inefficient vehicles which will remain on the road, we're talking about a 150% increase in fuel economy for new vehicles right off the bat, in the next 10 years. That is impossible without eliminating (not just modifying or augmenting) the century++ old piston and gas-turbine engines.

The technology exists. I'll leave it to speculation as to why no transition has yet been publicized... even in the most grossly-funded new military equipment which will effectively be obsolete in 10 years.

To be quite honest, the next 10 years is all that any world power is concerned with, and rightfully so.

[molonlabetn]

It's more than a bit extreme, but taking the sources with a grain of salt, this is a 'worst case' scenario: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

The implications of fossil-fuel decline have already been assessed by the tax-payees... so this is no surprise. But, do not assume that the need for 'change' will not be hand-in-hand with a social agenda which would not have been tolerated without a calculated 'crisis'.

[Guest Boomhower]

Something interesting I discovered the other day was the Aptera. The gas-electric model is claimed to surpass 100 MPG, depending on trip length. It's sort of an evolution of hybrid technology, I think... except that the electric system is the primary propulsion, with the gas engine kicking in as the batteries drain.

I don't know about your all's area, but in my area the price of electric is increasing as well. I don't see a solution here. IF electric were to replace gas, all I see changing is "Big Oil" to "Big Electric". Someone else's pocket will always be filled.

[towerclimber37]

I don't know about depleting the sheik's oil supply...if you're talking about a U.S. strategy, it would be pretty hard to do since we get less than 1% of our oil from them. almost all of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico....

[Mike.357]

With the potential for fuel prices to rise in the near future I almost wonder how much the middle and lower classes can absorb before society starts to break down.

Every single product people buy from chain stores is delivered by truck. Trucks need fuel to run on. Even if this hybrid crap grows there is no way I can see to exchange the current fleet of diesel tractors to electric. Diesel fuel is already over 4.00 a gallon. The price of food has increased enough that the middle class is really starting to feel the pinch. I don't know how truly poor people deal with it. And don't think all poor people are on the gov't handout. And it is not just food but everything people need to get by day to day to keep a household up and running.

it is a scary situation. So people have to work. you need gas to get to work. You need food to live. What happens when it gets to the point that the working stiff has to decide do I buy gas or buy food?

Things are liable to get very ugly very quickly in the country. We have had silver spoons stuck up our butts for generations and it is all coming to a head soon.

[Guest Boomhower]

The price of food has increased enough that the middle class is really starting to feel the pinch...............it is a scary situation. So people have to work. you need gas to get to work. You need food to live. What happens when it gets to the point that the working stiff has to decide do I buy gas or buy food?

Starting to hell. I've been feeling it for a few months now............and it's very scary. I can't imigine how other people are getting by. My wife and I have been on a modified Dave Ramsey program for around a year now, and even with 75% of all our small debt paid off, we are a dang near sinking ship here. As if daycare for 2 kids isn't enough, we just found out this week that one of our daycare's will be charging $28 more dollars a month for our 3 month old that we already provide food, diapers and wipes for anyways. Add on that a general 1100 sq ft. house payment, and one car payment, subtract 2 incomes and all your monthly expenses and your already looking at an upside down budget. Then you look over at a pile of Dr. bills from child birth (and we thought we had enough saved up). And we live as simple as we can......I tell ya guys, a 3rd part time job is in my near future. This econemy is killing me.

[Mike.357]

From January-November 2006, Saudi Arabia supplied the United States with 1.4 million barrels per day of crude oil, or approximately 14 percent, of U.S. crude oil imports.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Saudi_Arabia/Background.html

[molonlabetn]

[strickj]

I hate to be the one,but remember when 1.09 was high

[towerclimber37]

youch! my data was old..I should have checked up on it. *sigh*

I know human nature if I don't know economics. when it comes down to the finish line, folks will fight for something they need. stock up on ammo!

[molonlabetn]

I hate to be the one,but remember when 1.09 was high

I remember when the price crossed a buck, before I was old enough to drive, but that was when my dad started telling stories of the oil crisis during the '70s, when he worked at a gas station and the ration was on.

[Mike.357]

I started driving in 1975. I can't remember exactly what gas was going for those days but I am thinking less than 50 cents a gallon, maybe 39 cents??. Of course I was making 2.25 an hour working in a grocery store part time. I do know that if I had three buddies with me on a Friday night and everyone threw in one dollar towards gas, the old man had more gas Saturday morning than was in the car when I took it Friday night. And we would cruise all night long.

now those were the good old days.

[strickj]

I rode a bike when it was just over a buck,and I could go an entire week on just a few bucks,although I would still have to stop and fill up everyday

[DMark]

But wait - There's More.....

Fossil fuel is just a "theory."

What if oil comes from something else......, Hmmmmmm.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645

Edited May 4, 2008 by DMark

[Mike.357]

I like that DMark. Big Oil knows the suply is virtually inexhaustable but they stick it to us just the same.

Actually it makes sense.

[DMark]

Does make you wonder when you do recall that oil coming from Dead Dinos is just a theory.

Also......

I just Love it when we're told that most of our oil is coming from Canada.

Guess which oil field they are pumping it out of - - - Yup Anwar on their side.